Talk:Goaltender

Fat goaltenders?
What stops very very very fat people from being good Goaltenders ? Can somebody explain...

dignity.


 * In all seriousness: the likely inability of such an "athlete" participating in a sporting event without suffering significant health problems. Granted, one could argue an extremely wide person with very low stamina could be dressed as a backup goalie and inserted for a short period of time near the end of a game or in overtime to prevent being scored against, but it would probably not be seen as "sportsmanlike," and the team would go down in infamy. Staedtler 02:53, 6 July 2006 (UTC)

Also, there are maximum size limits on virtually all goalie equipment, i.e. legpads can be no wider than 11", the thighpad in the pants can be no wider than 10", the maximum width of a jersey (armpit to armpit) is 29.5", etc. These size limits essentially mean it would be illegal for a goalie too large to fit within the gear size limits to play in the NHL, NCAA, IIHF, etc.  --rsgdodge 19:10, 20 September 2006 (UTC)

Also, if you've ever been in goalie equipment, you get very tired because of all the moving around you have to do.70.100.165.76 00:46, 26 February 2007 (UTC)

Fat goaltenders do not make good goaltenders for one reason, mobility. The goalie might be able to stop the puck but he won't be able to freeze it, or react to rebounds. During a Hockey tryout some years ago there was a "fat" goaltender. He was about 6'3" 250lbs, in comparison at that time I was about 5'0" 110lbs. He could stop the first shot, but then was immobile and you could just move around him and score, I could stop the first, second, third shot etc. because of my mobility. He ended up being the worst goalie of the tryouts... Helphin (talk) 21:37, 21 August 2008 (UTC)

This question was addressed in Todd Gallagher's book Andy Roddick Beat Me with a Frying Pan. In addition to the reasons described above, a player of this size would have poor flexibility, preventing him from stopping shots at the corners of the net. If an enormous, athletic, flexible sumo wrestler ever did manage to find his way into a hockey tryout, the league would probably fail his physical. - Jon B., 3 November 2008

Scoring goaltenders
Are there any goalies who have scored goals? We should start a section to talk about these rare occurences.--Sonjaaa 00:39, 30 October 2005 (UTC)


 * Chris Osgood was the third goalie to score in the National Hockey League, when he scored an empty net goal against the Hartford Whalers in 1995-1996. I don't know who scored the first two, or if anyone has scored one sense. Gentgeen 02:22, 30 October 2005 (UTC)


 * After reading the Osgood article, I noticed we have a whole catgory for these guys, at Category:NHL Goalies who have scored in a game (which should probibly be renamed "NHL goalies ..."). Gentgeen 02:25, 30 October 2005 (UTC)


 * Ron Hextall, a former Flyers goalie, has scored, I believe, twice. 209.113.221.11 18:03, 15 December 2006 (UTC)


 * Dominik Hašek has scored before.70.100.165.76 00:48, 26 February 2007 (UTC)

Has any goalie, in any league, ever scored into a guarded net? (That would require a bad play by the opposing team most likely) CrazyC83 03:43, 29 April 2007 (UTC)

why is the first goalie on the list of +++NHL+++ 'minders who haave scored a goal, a minor leaguer. seems he needs removal from that specificaaly defined list (his accomplishment is noted in the text above anyway)Childhoodtrauma 00:12, 27 June 2007 (UTC)
 * ..what? Who? Michel Plasse? He wasn't a minor leaguer.  Bsroiaadn Talk 00:42, 27 June 2007 (UTC)
 * well someone agreed enough to remove him so it is fixed. and yes when he was credited with the goal he was playing a CHL game--- minor, pro, semi pro, call it what you will, the list is NHL and the kansas city vs oklahoma match-up didn't meet the lists' specifications :)  Childhoodtrauma 03:20, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

Is there a reference for the conditions of the game mentioned in the CHL subsection? "In a game between the Oklahoma City Blazers and the Kansas City Blues, the Oklahoma City Blazers were trailing 2-1 and decided to pull their goaltender." reoddai 15:03, 29 October 2008 (UTC)

Martin Brodeur has scored twice. He and Ron Hextall are the only goalies to have scored by shooting the puck both in the regular season and playoffs. pew pew pew 03:28, 15 April 2009 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Alanlemagne (talk • contribs)

Goaltenders shooting in shootouts
redacted


 * That is false, if the shootout goes through the team, if it ever has, it starts over again. 209.113.221.11 18:04, 15 December 2006 (UTC)

Net minder?
Where does that net minder thing come from? In British English people would say Goalie or Goal Keeper Daveirl 2nd November 2005 22:59 (UTC)
 * I've heard net minder bandied around a bit from both American and Canadian players/coaches, but I've never heard it attributed as a British saying. PFlats 21:39, 5 December 2005 (UTC)

Goals scored during delayed penalties
The article says ''If the opposing team commits a penalty while the goalie's team has control of the puck, the goalie may leave to be substituted because as soon as the penalized team gets control of the puck, play is stopped before they can score a goal. However, if the empty net team puts the puck in their own goal net by mistake, the goal still counts against them.'' I clearly remeber that some person many years ago told me that it used to be like that until some team (I think it was the Italian national team of some reason) actually made a selfgoal in a such situation and that the rules were changed after that. Of course it could be that NHL rules differs or something. I also can't say I feel so overwhelmingly sure about it, so I will leave it for someone else to confirm.

-When there's a delayed penalty, the team that did NOT commit the infraction can get an Extra attacker by swapping in a forward for their goalie. If the puck somehow goes into their net, it doesn't matter if it was their own player who made it go in there. The goal still counts against them, and credit for the goal goes to the player from the opposing team who last touched the puck. As long as the play is in progress, if the puck goes in your net, it counts. The only exception is if it bounces off the referee or linesman. ColtsScore 07:21, 31 May 2006 (UTC)


 * Untrue. As soon as anyone, including the goalie, on the team that committed the penalty, touches the puck, play ends.70.100.165.76 00:52, 26 February 2007 (UTC)


 * Ummm no. Anyone who has "gained control" is how the official rule goes.  If the puck is shot at you and deflects down the ice into the other net, it is still a goal.  DMighton 05:08, 14 April 2007 (UTC)


 * This is in fact how Billy Smith of the New York Islanders was the first NHL goalie credited with a goal. The team he was playing against had pulled their goalie for an extra attacker.  A shot was taken and hit Smith, but he did not 'control' it. The team (anybody recall?  Hartford Whalers?  Boston Bruins?) then scored on themselves. As the last 'offensive' player to touch the puck, Smith was credited with the goal.


 * well my memory is (and i'm fairly sure this is right) the goal happened in denver and the Rockies d-man, Rob Ramage was the player who put the puck in his own net during a delayed penalty. in fact it might say that on Billy Smith's entry. Ding! just checked. Smith's personal entry has a paragrapgh specific to the goal and ramage and the rockies are given their due. Childhoodtrauma 03:25, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

Issue with the Playing styles
I couldn't find anything on the so-called "toes up" playing style, which is also unsourced, and according to NHL.com, Grant Fuhr falls under the inverted-v style. Also, the inverted-v style doesn't sound like a style at all, it sounds more like the stance you hold before making a save using the other two styles. I've been a goaltender for 15 years using the butterfly style, but according to the article, I use the inverted-v style as I wait for shots and then the butterfly style to actually save the pucks. Anybody else? — Dorvaq (talk) 13:58, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

As do I, however, I think of myself as a hybrid goalie, so the inverted-v isn't too much of a suprise to me. 209.113.221.11 18:05, 15 December 2006 (UTC)


 * When I was learning to play (the 90's)... there was Stand-up, Butterfly, Half-Butterfly, and Free-style. Stand-up is your traditional Ken Dryden style.  Butterfly was the Patrick Roy Style.  Half-Butterfly was the Grant Fuhr style.  Free-style was the Dominic Hasek style.  The only other style that was really used was the Belfour Trap... inverted-v might be another word for it.  Knees together, feet far apart -- easy to drop to the butterfly and pop back up again, makes the shooter think there is more room in the 5-hole than there really is.  Inverted-v/Belfour trap... as far as I know was just modifications of the Butterfly stance.  DMighton 05:15, 14 April 2007 (UTC)

The 'toes up' style should be removed. There is no such thing. The 'toes up' save, or skate save, is a method used by stand up goalies so that they never really left their feet. The save could be made by merely shifting body weight and pointing the toe of the skate out. Secondly, the 'inverted-v' is a stance which has been uniformily accepted and taught. The extent of the 'v' generally indicates the style the goalie will play. A wide 'v' makes it easy to butterfly quickly (think J.S. Giguere) while a more compact 'v' enables stronger lateral mobility while still retaining the standard 'v' advantages (think Marty Turco). There have only been three major styles throughout the history of hockey. However, certain styles like the butterfly have evolved a few sub-styles building on the butterfly paradigm. Finally, because this article has been around for a while, do I just go make some changes or is it considered rude to make changes without first discussing them? Funker 001 (talk) 14:58, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

Agreed, 'toes up' style does not exist. As far as I know, there is Stand Up, Butterfly, Half-Butterfly, A mix of the above or none. Stand Up is pretty well defined, goaltender does not drop and stands to perform most saves (skate save would be part of stand up style). The Butterfly is falling on your "knees" with the pads to your sides (I say "knees" because if you actually went on your knees you would be on top of your pad and wouldn't have the width of the pad available to block the shot). The Half-Butterfly style is similar but distinct to the Butterfly, Half-Butterfly goaltenders tend to fall less quickly than butterfly, they will also fall in a half butterfly (where one pad is like the regular butterfly but the other leg is extended to the side with the toe pointing forward, this creates a gap between the ice and the pad but covers more vertical distance) whenever the shot comes from a side but will use butterfly in some instances. A Mix would be taking some elements from each style and None would be like Hasek, use whatever works at that time with no predefined response to a situation. Also, I would like to make a difference between stance and style. The "inverted V" described above is a stance rather than a style. Stand Up goalies will tend to have their pads together feet slightly more than shoulder width apart. Butterfly goaltenders will vary between feet at a medium distance and a large distance (this was described as the inverted V). Half-butterfly goaltenders will usually have their feet at medium distance. The further apart the feet are the less mobility but the faster you can drop to a butterfly stance. Anyways that's my thoughts on the matter Helphin (talk) 21:54, 21 August 2008 (UTC)

I've deleted the "Toes Up" style section. It's not a style of goaltending. If anyone comes up with research that cites it, feel free to put it back, but for now, the article is better off without it. HoboMaster (talk) 21:00, 10 December 2008 (UTC)

Number 1
Why is it that it's always the goalie who has the number "1" in a team? Players of other positions never have that number. 70.49.200.41 02:06, 22 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Who knows? Hockey, like all other sports, has its strange traditions. --Battlemonk 07:37, 23 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Goalies wear number 1 because in the earl days of the game, when teams carried only 1 goalie, that player would need a larger sweater. Since it was known only 1 player would need a sweater that big, they went ahead and just put the number 1 on it, letting other players and positions argue about sweater numbers. It wasn't until teams started carrying back-up goalie that goalies started wearing other numbers.

Back-up goalies wore the last numbers available in the jersey sets at the time which was usually around 30. That way the #1 goaltender would wear 1 and the back up would wear whatever completed the jersey set. The tradition stands as many goaltenders still have their numbers in the 30s. Helphin (talk) 21:59, 21 August 2008 (UTC)

I know that in the early 1960s, if a team had a spare goaltender in uniform, both their goalies wore #1. Old program scorecards will show this. It became mandatory to have a backup by 1963-64, and that's when they gave the alternate goalie a different number, usually the highest one available. You will find the occasional photo of Roger Crozier as #22, Marcel Paille as #23, and Terry Sawchuk as #24. Jack Norris wore #17, probably because Boston made more use of the higher numbers for defensemen. After a while, #30 became standard for the second goalkeeper, with #29 or #31 pressed into service when a team used a third one. Tony Esposito's #35 was unusual in its time, and before long, any (high) number might be used.WHPratt (talk) 18:01, 17 March 2009 (UTC)

Style?
Although I am aware that Hasek has a unique goaltending style, I don't believe we should segregate his style of play into its own entity. Hasek did not invent pad-stacking, nor have I ever heard of any other goaltender being referred to as using the. I believe this section should be removed/renamed & reworded unless someone can provide proper references. — Dorvaq (talk) 16:45, 2 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Agreed, he should just be included in the hybrid goaltenders section, not have one of his own. I've never heard of "Hasek Style", sounds like a fan just wants Hasek to have his own section to try to "set him apart" in this article. I'm removing it, if someone finds a citation then they can re-add it.  Bsroiaadn Talk 00:21, 18 June 2007 (UTC)

The "Hybrid" goaltenders section has been defaced as of 3 November 2008. The section now includes argumentative statements about the Butterfly Style followed by the text "im gay". There is currently no section discussiong homosexuality among goaltenders. - Jon B.

Pre-period ritual
I was at a hockey game earlier today, and I noticed that before each period officially started, the goalies would skate back and forth in their goaltending zone in front of the net. I know there's a reason for it, but I'll be damned if I can remember what it is. Why do they do that? -- Cubs Fan (talk) 08:43, 17 January 2008 (UTC)

It's to maximize control. It's mostly done by butterfly-style goalies, you don't want to be sliding all over the place out of control when you are in th butterfly slide, so you rough up the goal a bit. I personally don't, but a lot of my buddies do it for that reason

Alanlemagne (talk) 05:31, 10 February 2008 (UTC) Goalie

The fresh ice is quite slippery, shaving the surface reduces the distance you slide. If a goaltender does not do this he might slide too far and be out of position. If you observe goalies also remove the snow from their crease. When there is snow again reduces the distance the goaltender will slide, it also permits the goaltender to feel cracks or roughness in the ice that might affect play. Helphin (talk) 22:06, 21 August 2008 (UTC)

Goaltenders that catches with the right
1. Who are they in the NHL? Is the a category list where I can find out? 2. Does that mean the goaltender is left-handed, or are they just more comfortable catching with the right hand? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.184.35.110 (talk) 10:03, 23 May 2008 (UTC)

Regarding #2: it just means that they are more comfortable catching with the right hand. I've seen all combinations in my time playing hockey. At times, the catching hand is dictated by which way the goalie is comfortable shooting. Funker 001 (talk) 03:43, 26 May 2008 (UTC)


 * For a time the legend would read "shoots left" for a majority of goalies, just as for a majority of skaters. But as goalies rarely "shot" the puck, that was awkward.  The phrase "catches left" at least preserved the orientation, whereas "holds stick in right" would have reversed it.
 * (I'm righthanded and used to play goal. It never occurred to me to wear a catching glove on my right hand, because I used the same firstbaseman's mitt (with a cuff attached) that I wore in the summer playing baseball and it only fit the left hand.  Even with a dominant right arm, I felt more comfortable in snagging flying things with my left.  I wonder if there is a greater percentage of "catches right" goalies in non-baseball cultures?  Then again, you often have to use the stick one-handed, so the dominant arm would be preferred.)WHPratt (talk) 12:37, 18 March 2009 (UTC)

I quickly looked around for a database to pull from for #1 but didn't find anything. You make an interesting request. I'll have to see what I can do about that. Funker 001 (talk) 15:01, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

Captain
I believe that goalies in the NHL are no longer allowed to be their team's captain or alternate captain. If anyone can find the reference in the rule book, maybe it should be added to the article. AZDub (talk) 01:23, 25 August 2008 (UTC)

NHL hockey rulebook rule 6:1 "No playing Coach or playing Manager or goalkeeper shall be permitted to act as Captain or Alternate Captain." pew pew pew03:32, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

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About this sport
Why we call "Goaltender" for the player in this place instead "Goalkeeper"? "Goalkeeper" is formal name but "Goaltender" is unformal.--Pierce (talk) 22:30, 22 October 2009 (UTC)
 * "Goaltender" is the proper ice hockey term, "goalkeeper" belongs to other sports with nets like soccer and lacrosse. "Goaltender" is formal; "goalie" is the informal term. –ConkblockedWiki 07:44, 23 October 2009 (UTC)
 * In the NHL official rules, the position is referred to as "Goalkeeper" throughout ( and others). I don't know how it is called in other league rulebooks. I'm not really sure which is the WP:COMMONNAME between "Goaltender" and "Goalie" though. BocoROTH (talk) 22:39, 12 December 2010 (UTC)

"The most popular jersey number for goaltenders is 30." - Statistic? From where come this info? --Fangli (talk) 20:38, 4 January 2010 (UTC)

WP:EASTEREGG links
 a goaltender could theoretically wear any number from 00 to 99 (or 1 to 98 in the NHL, since 99 is retired throughout the league and 00 has since been banned) These links aren't intuitive, how about a goaltender could theoretically wear any number from 00 to 99 (or 1 to 98 in the NHL, since 99 is retired in honoured of Wayne Gretzky throughout the league and 00 notably of Martin Biron has since been banned) Gnevin (talk) 12:36, 25 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Not really easter eggs as the links take you to the pages that explain why they can't be used. In other words telling you Wayne Gretzky had his number retired league wide. That is what I would expect the link to take me to if I clicked it so doesn't really fail the test of a user being surprised by the link. That being said I don't have a problem with this change, the last one just was pretty awkward sounding. -DJSasso (talk) 12:47, 25 May 2011 (UTC)

But why is '00' banned? I don't see an explanation on Martin Biron's page. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:8:BB01:7427:7031:F7D4:331C:5115 (talk) 15:35, 3 June 2015 (UTC)

Hole numbering?
Along with similar text in Five-hole, is the numbering of holes 1-4 standardized? See the article before my most recent edit, the graphic accompanying the section which I edited the article (and Five-hole to correspond with, http://www.hockeyplayer.com/paid/publish/article_487.shtml vs. http://www.schoolyardpuck.com/2010/10/why-it-called-five-hole-in-hockey.html

Does it really matter? WhiskeyJuvenile (talk) 18:52, 4 November 2013 (UTC)

The only opening which is commonly referred to a #-hole is the five hole. The other four sweet spots are commonly referred to as either Top Left, Top Right, Bottom Left, and Bottom Right, or Glove-side High, Glove-side Low, Stick-side High, and Stick-side Low (noting that the glove/stick side is dependent on whether the goalie is right or left handed). Dolovis (talk) 19:06, 4 November 2013 (UTC)

Goalkeeper vs. goaltender
The NHL rules use the term "Goalkeeper" and thus, the description stating that this Wikipedia entry only applies to ice hockey is likely incorrect.

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