Talk:Goddess of Democracy

Joke article?
Is this article a joke? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Vlad Dracula (talk • contribs) 11:21, 8 June 2012 (UTC)

It strikes me as odd that no photograph of the original is offered. Captainbeefart (talk) 09:16, 30 May 2013 (UTC)

Statue of Liberty
Hello. This is my very first edit, so please be merciful. I offered this correction based on Tsao Tsing-yuan's account of the construction of the statue. User:sigrid

Political Manipulation
The statue was in fact meant to symbolize socialism, thus the flamed torch, which is used in many former flags of socialist countries (Federal Socialist Republic of Yugoslavia, for one), and also the lady figure was a prominent Soviet and communist symbol. Like so much of the Tianamen protests themselves, and their impact, it was turned into an instrument of political manipulation by foreigners (mostly Americans) who were anti-socialist, and used to distort the nature of the Tiananmen opposition into some kind struggle for capitalism, and tried to create an ahistorical view of the Tiananmen protests as some kind of Cold War idiom. Thus the laughably so-named 'Victims of Communism Memorial' which George Bush (of all people) spoke at the dedication to (where is the memorial to the victims of capitalism?). —Preceding unsigned comment added by 220.253.134.241 (talk) 09:16, 9 June 2010 (UTC)

Merge?
I'm questioning the stub notation, myself. I mean, it's the papier-mache statue that the PLA destroyed when they killed all the protestors. Is it really that big a deal? I can't see how this can become more than it is, which begs the question: do we move all this information to the Tianenmen Square article or do we simply remove the stub notation and let it sit? User:Philwelch

It is a big deal. It may have been made of paper-mache and only stood for five days, but it was and continues to be a huge symbol. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 131.111.200.200 (talk) 17:15, 17 February 2008 (UTC)

an eclipse doesn't last forever but it will always matter. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 58.179.11.35 (talk) 05:59, 31 May 2009 (UTC)

Why the Goddess of Democracy is important
The statue is a big deal. It an extremely notable part of the protests. In my opinion, it is the image of the Tiananmen Square protests. Media coverage tends to focus on the man in front of the tank--which is unquestionably a powerful image--but this, I think, embodies the spirit of the protests better; in fact, it is this image that gives that scene a context and meaning. Why was the man standing in front of the tank? Because those demonstrators believed in and fought for liberty and democracy, and they'd do whatever was needed to be done to get it, including staring down a tank and building their own 40 foot high Statue of Liberty in their backyard.

This statue was built, by their own hands, to embody their dreams, to focus their thoughts, and to give their beliefs a symbol and a form. How often do people get together, and in the space of a few days, construct a statue 40 feet high, yet light enough to be carried by hand? That effort cannot be ignored.

This is one of the most inspirational images I have ever seen. It reminds me of something Thomas Paine wrote:


 * "What we obtain too cheap, we esteem too lightly: it is dearness only that gives every thing its value. Heaven knows how to put a proper price upon its goods; and it would be strange indeed if so celestial an article as FREEDOM should not be highly rated."
 * - The American Crisis, December 19, 1776

People who have been born into freedom and democracy have obtained it without a struggle; it is often easy to take these things for granted. The Goddess of Democracy reminds us that freedom is precious--that freedom is a noble and spectacular thing, and that liberty is often obtained only through great struggle.

I think that bronze duplicates of this statue should be built in the cities of London, Paris, and Washington D.C.--and in the capital cities of any country which has obtained democracy through a difficult struggle--so that we twenty-first century citizens of a free world, the heirs to a tradition of freedom and democracy, could be inspired by the brilliance and courage of those valiant demonstrators in China... who were inspired by us.

Several small scale replicas of the statue have been made already. This is a very important subject, and the current article only scratches the surface. This article needs to be expanded, not merged.

- Pioneer-12 05:48, 30 Apr 2005 (UTC)


 * Well that's nice but...what's the point of writing it here? This isn't some activist site. I don't see what you can do by writing about it on a talk page on Wikipedia. Adam Bishop 16:29, 30 Apr 2005 (UTC)


 * (1) To prevent some clueless person from nominating this for vfd. (2) To inspire people to find out more about the statue and expand the article. - Pioneer-12 23:56, 30 Apr 2005 (UTC)


 * Why would anyone nominate this for VFD? Adam Bishop 23:57, 30 Apr 2005 (UTC)


 * Because this is Wikipedia. All it takes is one clueless person to start a pointless vfd vote. - Pioneer-12 07:58, 2 May 2005 (UTC)


 * Nonsense. This article has been here for a year and a half without anyone listing it on VFD. Besides, it would obviously survive, even without your rant. No one ever suggested merging it either, I don't where you got that idea from. Adam Bishop 15:54, 2 May 2005 (UTC)


 * Read the top of this page, smart guy. - Pioneer-12 01:15, 3 May 2005 (UTC)


 * Well crap :) Adam Bishop 07:05, 3 May 2005 (UTC)

Pro-democratic bias.
Not everyone believes in democracy. Why is it that Wikipedia's NPOV rules are never followed when it comes to supporting democracy? I say, SCREW DEMOCRACY! 71.81.55.178 02:17, 30 May 2006 (UTC)


 * "When are people going to learn? Democracy doesn't work!" - Homer Simpson. Adam Bishop 02:25, 30 May 2006 (UTC)


 * He has a point, you'll never see an article that even so much as wonders if Democracy is a good method of rule. The bias is clear. Interestingly enough, refusing to accept that Democracy may not work as a system, or deriding people who put forth such theory, is in itself undemocratic. But if you thikn anyone who disagrees with Democracy is as dumb as Homer Simpson, perhaps you should go back to school to rediscover that most American forefathers were extremely weary of Democracy as a method of rule and considered it boderderline Mob Rule. Then again when we talk about Americans, we talk about citizens who claim to live in democracy yet elect as presidents the least voted contender, he himself, voted in by a pathetic 1\4 of the voting population. That yes, can be easily derided as Homer Simpson Democracy.


 * Doh!


 * Democracy is a little like Brotherly Love, everybody says they support it in principle but the translation into actual fact runs into a bunch of problems not the least of which is the preparedness of the masses to support the concept by being capable citizens. A comment on the symbolism of having the statue face Mao Zedongs portrait might be in order, I imagine that the protesters meant to link to two in a positive way as Mao stuggled mightly if ineptly for the people and against the bureuacracy. Lycurgus 00:21, 30 May 2007 (UTC)


 * I have reverted an anon editor over some langauge differences. The langague was sourced. --evrik (talk) 16:52, 7 December 2007 (UTC)


 * Here's an idea.  Go live in Fill-In-The-Blank-izstan for a decade or so.   Then come back and tell us how much you still dislike democracy.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.176.92.102 (talk) 00:22, 30 May 2008 (UTC)


 * This is not a political discussion page, however it should be noted that the Democracy Movement were not calling for democracy as such, more for the end of Communist tyranny, corruption and abuses.203.184.41.226 (talk) 06:21, 7 August 2013 (UTC)

So... uh... what happened to it?
I'm all in suspense!

What happend to the statue after it was erected? Did the government destroy it, leave it standing, or replace the torch with a little red book? --Duemellon 12:18, 30 May 2006 (UTC)


 * It's in the article: "The Chinese People's Liberation Army destroyed the statue during the June 4 protests." Adam Bishop 15:57, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

Nothing more dramatic than that? Did they shoot it? tear it down? smash it? what? any other details? --Duemellon 01:25, 31 May 2006 (UTC)


 * A tank ran it over. There's video images of that.


 * Adding such an image to the article would be a good idea. As a unique event, a still from a video would qualify under fair use. Modest Genius talk 15:39, 30 May 2009 (UTC)

The question of photo placement
An editor is demanding that a photo of a replica be placed next to text about the creation and destruction of the original. I have pointed out that this is outside the guideline found at Images (emphasis added) "Articles that use more than one image should present a variety of material near relevant text."

I had placed one photo on both sides of the text about the replicas in accord with Picture_tutorial which recommends that the pics be placed in that manner at Picture_tutorial he continues to insist on his own tastes and claims that such is bad formatting. He places a picture of a Canadian replica next to text that speaks of Tsao Tsing-yuan and the creation of the Chinese original and of the destruction of that statue by the Chinese military; a photo of either the statues creaton, or of the tank crushing the original in that segment would not only be acceptable but is desirable as it would improve the article. But his insertion of a replica in the segment about the original makes no sense and is in violation of the guideline. He refuses to cite anything but his own tastes as a reason for his actions. It is just as ridiculous to place the picture of the Canadian replica next to the text about the Chinese original as it would be to place the picture of President Bush infront of the American replica next to that text.
 * --Wowaconia 18:55, 14 June 2007 (UTC)

I have expanded the segments in hopes that this will resolve the problem.
 * --Wowaconia 22:58, 14 June 2007 (UTC)

What happened to those involved?
Some coverage to what happened to those involved (at least the specific named people and academies) would be useful in this article? I believe it is still unknown what happened to Tank Man. What abou the people who assembled the statue, read the statements, etc? 86.134.49.204 (talk) 09:13, 8 September 2010 (UTC)

Files_for_deletion/2011_April_5
All opinions welcome. Thank you. walk victor falktalk 21:08, 5 April 2011 (UTC)

Illustration
There are seven photos of replicas, but none of the original. Why? 203.184.41.226 (talk) 06:19, 7 August 2013 (UTC)

I have no idea, as they are readily available on Google, but am hesitant to add them as I sense some lingering tension in this article about image placement.Skeletos (talk) 22:25, 12 September 2013 (UTC)

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Which eight schools?
Han (1990) lists the "Academy of Chinese Local Stage Arts" at https://books.google.com.tw/books?id=QOUXEAAAQBAJ&pg=PA347&lpg=PA347&dq=%22Academy+of+Chinese+Local+Stage+Arts%22&source=bl&ots=5e-2MviLHx&sig=ACfU3U1qHBArQWEYYOPjrHYExBoRd948dQ&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjNjb_fhc_2AhXxk1YBHcYkD8IQ6AF6BAg4EAM#v=onepage&q=%22Academy%20of%20Chinese%20Local%20Stage%20Arts%22&f=false, but Han's book is the only cite on the web in English for such a school. The Chinese version of this page lists no such school; indeed, the Chinese version of this page doesn't list all eight schools, instead saying there were eight but only listing seven by name. The Chinese version of this page also cites a 香港時報 (Hong Kong times) article, but the article appears to be impossible to find on the internet (and the newspaper apparently went out of business in 1993), so the only accessible source seems to be Han's book. Are there better sources that list all eight schools by name? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2001:B011:1005:70E3:DDB2:4ED5:FC6F:ECE (talk) 06:53, 18 March 2022 (UTC)

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 * Goddess of Democracy SF.jpg