Talk:Godiva's Hymn

Chorus Differences?
At both Carleton and Queen's University, the main choruses (male/female) are usually as follows:


 * We are, we are, we are, we are, we are the Engineers,
 * We can, we can, we can, we can demolish forty beers,
 * Drink rum, drink rum, drink rum, drink rum and come along with us,
 * For we don't give a damn for any old man who don't give a damn for us!


 * We are, we are, we are, we are the female Engineers,
 * We can, we can, we can, we can drink just as many beers,
 * Drink rum, drink rum, drink rum, drink rum and come along with us,
 * For we don't give a fuck for any old fuck who can't get it up for us!


 * At MIT, there's one chorus, which is identical to the "male" one you give, except for the the third line. We have, "Drink rum, drink rum, drink rum all day and come along with us".  Is a "variations" section in order?  And where, exactly, do they sing "we don't give a damn for any damn man" (the version the article gives)? --Victor Lighthill 07:55, 5 May 2006 (UTC)


 * I would agree - this is a variant; having visited and attended a number of unviersities, all that I'm aware of us the same 3rd line...this all day is a variant at MIT.

- 09 Oct 2007

"We don't give a damn for any damn man" is used by the University of Waterloo. 24.57.52.187 (talk) 18:40, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

Since 1921?
Can anybody source the claim that dates the song to "earlier than 1921?" I've poked around, but can't find anything on the web. --Victor Lighthill 18:12, 2 May 2006 (UTC)

No, I can't find a reference to this song as early as 1921. I recommend removal of this statement. Can anyone justify it? John Mehlberg 19:05, 4 May 2006 (UTC)


 * It was added by Sveiki, if I'm reading the history right. I've added a question to Sveiki's talk page. --Victor Lighthill 07:56, 5 May 2006 (UTC)


 * BTW, I can personally confirm that my great uncle, who went to MIT in the late 40's, remembers this song. Of course, that's not verifiable. --Victor Lighthill 08:00, 5 May 2006 (UTC)

Deletion Response
This entry was proposed for deletion by User:Pm shef. This user, among others, pointed out some unverifiable content (specifically the claim that Godiva's Hymn was first sung in 1921. I have removed this claim until I am able to find a citation for it.

Also in question is Wikipedia's encyclopedic nature not being a depository for lyrics. When this was pointed out, I read a little into Wikipedia policy and found that I quite agreed with User:Pm shef, especially considering the external links provide a comprehensive set of lyrics to the song.

I do, however, disagree with this user on the notability of the entry. It is referenced from other articles and is of cultural interest for the academic and engineering communities. To this end, I have reduced the article to the pure encyclopedic and verifiable entry it should be.

Sveiki 04:08, 12 August 2006 (UTC)

LGMB sings the hymn to the tune of Good King Wenceslas?
I have been at UofT Engineering for 5 years and I am a part of the LGMB. I have never heard the hymn sang to the tune of Good King Wenceslas. It'd be great if someone has an audio file of it, I'd be interested. Otherwise, remove? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.34.60.41 (talk) 01:25, 26 August 2010 (UTC)

Another tune
I learnt the parody version in England in the 1960s as a rugby song, to the tune of "Frog Went A-Courting". Narky Blert (talk) 14:00, 18 May 2017 (UTC)

Source for origin in Army Corps of Engineers
I'm looking at the page cited in the source (p. 122) that claims the song originated with the Army Corps of Engineers. Except the source doesn't say that. It merely refers to "MIT's fight song," gives some lyrics, then states: "The song is sometimes referred to as 'Godiva's Hymn.' A version known among army engineer battalions as 'The Engineer Hymn' or 'The Engineers' Drinking Song' of the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers is similar. Its chorus goes..." After some lyrics, the text continues and just mentions that the army versions have "numerous verses, many of which are, if not identical, then similar, at least in spirit to those in the MIT song."

There's nothing in this text that claims one version of the other is the original. To the contrary, an actual scholarly work on American song, "The Erotic Music: American Bawdy Songs" by Ed Cray, notes on p. 330 that the tune has been used for generations by various groups and to various texts, but the citation based on an archivist at the Library of Congress found the earliest text version of the Godiva song (originally only entitled "Godiva") in an MIT songbook from the 1950s. It's also notable that the tune in question, "The Song of a Gambolier," was commonly appropriated by college glee clubs in the early 20th century.

I don't see any proof that the Godiva song originated for certain at MIT, but there doesn't seem to be any citation that it originated with the military either. Given the history of the tune's association with college glee clubs, the text could just as easily have come from an engineering college. For that reason, I am removing the claim from the article about the origin and replacing it with more neutral language. If anyone can find a more solid source, feel free to cite that with details. 71.68.134.79 (talk) 05:04, 22 August 2017 (UTC)

Great Big Wheel relationship?
A large portion of the article is taken up with lyrics from a song about the "Great Big Wheel." It's unclear that this song bears any resemblance or has any relationship whatsoever to the "Godiva's hymn" that is the subject of the article, much less is an actual parody of it. It may be *an* engineer's song, but it's clearly not the Godiva song.

I would recommend the entire section on the "parody" be deleted unless a source can be produced that clarifies the relationship to the article subject. 71.68.134.79 (talk) 05:14, 22 August 2017 (UTC)

Sexism/implication of engineering being "males only" /males club
Has this been addressed? Can we add an article section for it? JointCompound (talk) 03:34, 19 October 2022 (UTC)