Talk:Gotem

GOTEM
Thanks to User:Fang_Aili for support in not deleting legitimate articles.

First of all, this was a legitimate page. Second, there are in fact two cities under the name of Gotem in Belgium. Third, all the information that is on the page right now was in earlier editions of the page, including information on BOTH cities. Now that it has been deleted and recreated, it will require more work to return all the information back to the page.
 * This unsigned comment by 70.152.41.170 was the only contribution of this user to Wikipedia thus far. MOre to the point: there are two hamlets called Gotem in Belgium. Even on the Dutch (language, Belgian content) wikipedia, only one of them is worth a very short article. The article that was deleted never contained any information on why either of the two Gotems would be notable, except for false claims on the number of inhabitants (+ 30,000?). I would urge all the people who are now so strong in defending the article to just go ahead and make it a correct article (or stub, probably). Remove all the nonsense (i.e. all of Plofbroekstraat, and most of Gotem), and then come back and urge us not to delete it. Fram 07:20, 16 June 2006 (UTC)
 * Follow-up: the current article, while slightly better, still is full of bizarre info. A hotel in Maastricht (distance to the border is 27km? The number of inhabitants of the wide surroundings (giving a number that is double the inhabitants of the municipality Gotem is a part of, Borgloon, with 10,045 inhabitants? The "city" of Polfbroekstraat? That street is located in East Flanders, according to its article... It isn't even known in the ViaMichelin routeplanner.
 * I agree that a stub on Gotem may exist, as it is a real but rather unimportant (non notable) hamlet. But this is still so far removed from the truth or from an encyclopedic article (even though it is better layouted now)... Fram 07:34, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

'''From the Dutch Wikipedia... Instead of hating why don't you help us translate:'''

Gotem is een kleine deelgemeente van Borgloon.

Haar opvallendste monument is de van oorsprong 12e-eeuwse Sint-Niklaas- en Dionysiuskerk. In de 13e eeuw verkreeg de kerk een apsis, in de 17e tot de 19e eeuw volgden verdere aanpassingen. Aan de noordkant van het kerkje bevindt zich een vrijstaand overdekt muurgedeelte waartegen drie 14e-eeuwse grafzerken zijn aangebracht. De oudste (helemaal links) is laat-13e-eeuws en beeldt de in 1296 overleden Nenkinus van Gotem uit. Zijn zoon Arnold (helemaal rechts) stierf in 1307; zijn zerk werd rond 1300 gesneden. De jongste van de drie is de middelste: Gerard Print van Gotem overleed in 1358 en zijn vrouw Elisabeth Bollen in 1403. De grafzerk werd waarschijnlijk rond of na 1358 gebeiteld.

Bron(nen):
 * informatiebord ter plekke
 * 'De grafkunst in Belgisch Limburg' door Etienne van Caster en Roland Op de Beeck (1981 Van Gorcum, Assen, NL)

Comment Judging from a quick translation I did using an online engine, it would appear to me that the Dutch article refers to the history of Gotem, which makes Gotem in fact important. It seems that the Dutch article refers to families from Gotem and also several buildings including a church. I would have to say Fram, I think you have spent more time arguing over this than it would have taken you to fix up the article and have it be at the level of your standards. Since the article exists in Dutch, either you can try to get rid of both the Dutch and English versions, or you can simply help us out and add to the article. Also, I was user 70.152.41.170, I had forgotten to sign in. Polfbroekstraat 17:37, 16 June 2006 (UTC)
 * Say whatever you want: I think it qiute unlikely that a user with the same name as one of the four articles of The Raven, Gotem, and the other users involved, a name furthermore which refers directly to a small street in Flanders, would need an "online translation" to read a Dutch article. Furthermore, I don't understand your logic. The village has an old church with a few graves, and this makes it important? I don't care to fix this article up to my standards, I feel that everything about Gotem that has any encyclopedic value (i.e. very little) can be included easily in the Borgloon article. I find it, finally, very irnoic that I am the only one here pointing out the errors in the previous article, the link, ..., and the first one to actually refer to the Dutch Wikipedia. If you all feel so strongly that this article should be in Wikipedia, why didn't you write some correct stuff earlier? If we end up with a correct article (no matter how short and unimportant), then all this discussion and my proposed deletion of it will have achieved at least something.

Comment I don't see your constant attack on user names. I am also the user $$Tachyon^2$$. I have been a user for a long time now, long before this battle started. I don't speak Dutch; I just liked the name Polfbroekstraat when I first saw it. Either way, I believe an encyclopedia has to include all information anyone may be looking for; I have user Wikipedia to find many many obscure and perhaps to some "unimportant" articles. I think if we add the information present of the Dutch page, we will have a rather legitimate stub, with useful information. Polfbroekstraat 22:08, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

Comment I don't see why it's small population precludes it from having a small article. Plenty of other cities of similar size have full length pages. Gotem (Gothem) is known for its small-town mystique to visitors (I myself have seen it), and, as such towns are often tourist destinations, a tourist passing through the city may wish further information on it.

There is no reason for a comprehensive encyclopedia to lack a record of a city of this importance. --PhoenixPinion 03:00, 17 June 2006 (UTC)

The Two Gotems
This article is about Gothem, aka Gotem. I have started the Kottem article to clarify which Gotem is which. syphonbyte 22:05, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

Population Figure
I am adding this here in additon to the AfD page so that it may be referenced on the main page.


 * According to Borgloon and similar Googled sites, the population density of Borgloon is 196.49 inhabitants per km². Judging by the shape of Gotem which is denoted by the dashed line at the Viamichelin site (click on map to zoom in and get a better view), the area of Gotem is approximately 6 km². Thus 196.49 x 6 = 1178.94 which is approximately 1179. This figure should satisfy Fram and others who doubt the current given population. However, this is not the final figure by any means, and I am searching for further evidence to find a more accurate number. --Charlesxavier 01:44, 17 June 2006 (UTC)
 * Thanks. Not very scientific, but certainly more realistic. I'll try to find a better source as well. Fram 19:53, 17 June 2006 (UTC)
 * I've found it. Added correct figure, and gave reference. If you can find an even recenter one, be my guest. The article seems to be getting complete after all! Fram 20:39, 17 June 2006 (UTC)

Maastricht Airport
The border is 27 kms from Gotem, so I suppose some error has been made, and the airport is actually at least 30 km away (you can dind it North of Maastricht, in the Netherlands). Perhaps it has been confused with the airport of Brustem (Sint-Truiden), an old military airport that is now disused but may be reopened as a small helicopter airport. This is closer to Gotem (some 8 kilometres), but has no reason to be included here. Fram 20:01, 17 June 2006 (UTC)
 * I think Charlesxavier did a measurement with Google Earth or something like that, I'm not sure. Thanks for informing us, though. I'll remove it from the article for the time being until we can get a map or something.

A Tale of Three Cities
We have this article, Gotem, which Gothem in Limburg. There's Kottem which is also called Gotem in East Flanders. Then there's Gottem in East Flanders. Am I correct? syphonbyte 20:49, 17 June 2006 (UTC)

Let us not forget Gothem in Gotland, Sweden. PhoenixPinion 22:04, 17 June 2006 (UTC)

More Pictures?
Its a shame we do not have more images of said location. Perhaps I should take a trip to belgium? --The Raven 05:14, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

Bellevue bos
At the request of Catbag, I'll explain why it hasn't got anything to do with Gotem, and thus shouldn't be included in the article. It is located 6.9 kilometres away from Gotem (a very small village), at the other side of Borgloon (the main municipality) and close to Kortessem. It has no relation to Gotem at all except being not extremely far away. The site used as a reference is not reliable for this kind of info, since it gives all geographical and/or slightly touristic features in a circle of 7 km around the village you select, without any check if they are related or even located in the same village. This site is comparable to the equally unreliable fallingrain, which was used to create the first version of the Gotem article (a version which is somehow saved in User:Catbag/Gotem since December 4 2006, even though it has been deleted since June 15, 2006, and is clearly nonsense). Fram 08:47, 4 January 2007 (UTC)
 * My apologies, I guess I was under the impression that the forest was within Gotem. Catbag 03:42, 5 January 2007 (UTC)