Talk:Gríma Wormtongue/Archive 1

Unfinished Tales
I added a paragraph about his doings before we meet him in Two Towers. I believe it is significant enough to the story to be included. Agree/Disagree? Drzava 23:13, 1 September 2006 (UTC)

Eowyn
In the second movie, Grima seems to really like Eowyn. Is this true, in both the book and movie?


 * It's also mentioned in the book, although there only as a surmise. The movie simply makes it more clear that Wormtongue lusts for Éowyn. Jordi·✆ 16:48, 26 July 2005 (UTC)

Cat
Why is Grima included in Category:Fictional cannibals? Babub 04:16, 26 June 2006 (UTC)


 * Likely because it is strongly implied he killed and ate Lotho Sackville-Baggins. -- Jordi· ✆ 05:02, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

Gríma revealed the Shire?
Was that really Gríma? I thought it was an unnamed messenger of Saruman's, one of the 'dark Southrons' in the ‘Prancing Pony’. -- Jordi· ✆ 13:18, 31 August 2006 (UTC)


 * He revealed the Shire to the Nazgûl, not Saruman. Saruman had known about the Shire for a long time. Drzava 23:13, 1 September 2006 (UTC)


 * That's not the question here, nobody claims it was revealed to Saruman. My question was, was this Gríma, or was it another person? And according to UT it was indeed the Wormtongue. -- Jordi· ✆ 17:35, 3 September 2006 (UTC)


 * Depends which version you read, that role is given to the Squint-eyed southerner. Carl Sixsmith (talk) 21:26, 21 February 2011 (UTC)

Was he shorter than other Rohirrim?
Well, was he? I'm sure he wasn't dark-haired as Jackson makes him, and that his "Dunlending ancestry" is just fanon derived from Jacksoncruft. 203.167.67.98 13:49, 31 August 2006 (UTC)


 * There's nothing to suggest a short stature or Dunlending ancestry in the book, but it is certainly possible. -- Jordi· ✆ 14:19, 31 August 2006 (UTC)


 * The only mention in TTT of his physique is that he is "wizened" which a trip to dictionary.com taught me means shriveled or withered, and that could be interpreted as either physically small or simply old. I find the latter more likely. As for Dunlending ancestry, he does have dark eyes(TTT, p.138) and I believe that Tolkien somewhere mentions that the men of rohan are traditionally blue-eyed. Drzava 23:32, 1 September 2006 (UTC)

Same as Brahmins from India
Is Grima similar to Brahmins from India?


 * No

Sign of emotion/'goodness' in the film version of The Two Towers
So, just a random question for people who might have more information: In watching The Two Towers, I noted that after Grima returns to Orthanc, there is a point at which he is questioning Saruman's ability to defeat Theoden. He argues that it would take an army of thousands (Saruman corrects to tens of thousands) and that no such army exists. He is then shown the army, from the tower, as Saruman commands them to go forth. In this scene, Grima appears to, for lack of a less trite phrase 'shed a single tear'. Awe? Fear? Regret? Thoughts?

67.183.112.80 11:32, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

The scene in the film is rather problematic. I think Grima is "overcome" with regret when he realizes the fate in store for the Rohirrim. Which is ridiculous, since he has been working for years to bring about that very fate, and was a frequent visitor to Isengard and well aware of Saruman's military strength.

His transformation in the book is more subtle. He comes to hate Saruman (and himself) chiefly as a result of Saruman's abuse. He may dimly regret all he has done too, but only because his own plight is so dire.

In the film's defense, Grima is portrayed as a more complicated/complex character than in the book. 169.253.4.21 (talk) 18:01, 25 February 2008 (UTC)TexxasFinn

Fair use rationale for Image:LOTR Grma.jpg
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Concerning "Grímur Ormstunga"
"Grímur Ormstunga (Wormtongue) is also a person from one of the Icelandic sagas and many think that is where Tolkien got the name."

- This is incorrect: the famous character is named Gunnlaugr Ormstunga, not Grímur (or rather: Grímr). However, Gunnlaugr married Helga, grand-daughter of Egil, son of Skalla-Grímr Kveldulfsson, another famous character of the Icelandic sagas. I believe that whoever made the above quoted assertion mixed the names up. Also, Ormstunga doesn't really mean Wormtongue (though the word is a close cognate) but rather Serpent tongue. Therefore, I have removed this line from the article. Taeronai 23:52, 9 August 2007 (UTC)

Fiction
"Gríma, called (the) Wormtongue, is a fictional character in J. R. R. Tolkien's The Lord of the Rings."

Grima is not a fictional character in The Lord of the Rings, he is a character in the book The Lord of the Rings, which is fictional. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 134.126.198.92 (talk) 19:59, 14 November 2010 (UTC)


 * You have a point there. I've change 'in' to 'from' to be more precise. Carl Sixsmith (talk) 20:04, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
 * Carl - I think you've missed the point of the anon's comment. 'In' is fine. The point is that Wormtongue really is a character in a work of fiction, not a fictional character in a work of fiction. The latter would occur in the event of a play within a play situation. It's true, albeit probably hair-splitting and the solution, if required, would be as suggested by the anon. 4u1e (talk) 21:22, 14 November 2010 (UTC)


 * Ooops. Best check my recent history and role back a couple of edits :( Carl Sixsmith (talk) 21:25, 14 November 2010 (UTC)

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