Talk:Great White Brotherhood

Deletion attempts
This article was deleted by User:Adam_Cuerden without discussion nor consensus on 12 December 2007. I restored it today, only to have renewed efforts to remove it by getting others to agree to deletion again. There is an effort by a number of individuals to delete (or remove by merging to another article) a number of articles related to esoteric/Theosophy/Ascended Master Teachings subjects.

I am a homeopathic physician with 27 years clinical experience. One week ago on 6 December I saw that the tone of the Homeopathy article was so POV that it was as if it was a non-encyclopedia article that would be better titled "Criticism of Homeopathy". I wrote a number of comments and suggestions on how the the article could be improved to NPOV standards. I was personally attacked by the "skeptics" that had attached themselves to the article.

Then the tactic in the last several days changed. Several of the anti-homeopathy POV editors went to my user page and checked out my "user contributions". The harrassment started as they started messing with those esoteric/Theosophy/Ascended Master Teachings articles I had worked on - with derision and mockery, and eliminating 3 of them by "redirects" to another not identical article (which I reverted) with no discussion or consensus. Each of these 2 editors had essentially made those articles unavailable.

You can see the derision and mockery directed at new religions that developed in the 20th century that were based on Theosophy at:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Fringe_theories/Noticeboard#Walled_gardens_of_woo

I've written some comments there. However the tone became increasingly nasty when User:Fireplace tried to discredit me by dredging up 2 FALSE asccusations that I was a sock puppet.

They have been going to the articles in the "Ascended Master Teachings" category and attempting to get rid of them. See: "Category:Ascended_Master_Teachings"

User:Adam_Cuerden has repeatedly deleted an entire large section of the article on Saint Germain at: Count_of_St_Germain Arion (talk) 20:08, 14 December 2007 (UTC)

Removed two maintenance tags
I removed two tags from the article in chief: and. Even given that I have been editing it recently, and relatively careful to add references for the data I added, even the text that preceded what I added seemed to be better referenced than 95% of many other articles. I also tend to feel that notability across a fairly wide variety of sources is adequately demonstrated by the article, at least in its current state. - Smerdis of Tlön (talk) 01:14, 21 December 2007 (UTC)

Great White Brotherhood
This is a great article. Why would anyone want to delete it? This is a subject matter that I am interested in and was happy to find it on Wikipedia. Do Not Delete! (70.254.161.2 (talk)) —Preceding comment was added at 22:20, 21 December 2007 (UTC)

History
First of all I disagree that the notion originated with The Cloud Upon the Sancutary -- IMO it started with the Fama Fraternitas. But this leads me to my second point, that this may represent original research. I must contest the reference to ch. 1 of Godwin's Theosophical Enlightenment -- I have this book and cannot find any mention of Eckartshausen anywhere in it. This text is best known to occult researchers, I believe, as being recommended to Aleister Crowley by AE Waite and proving instrumental in his becoming involved in the Golden Dawn; see:.

Yonderboy (talk) 02:19, 18 October 2008 (UTC)

Bulgarian White Brotherhood
There is an organisation called the White Brotherhood that appears to have originated in Bulgaria in 1900. See http://www.answers.com/topic/white-brotherhood. This appears to be closely related to the Great White Brotherhood. Expansion would be appreciated by an expert (which I'm not). It's not the same as the White Brotherhood. Sidefall (talk) 13:20, 17 July 2009 (UTC)

Using ascension-research.org as a source
The site claims to have no affiliations with any organization but is registered by Allen Buresz of Natural Health L.P. in Virginia. Checking the Virginia company records online, no such limited partnership has been registered as active. Consequently the registration is suspect with apparently false information. The site appears to be another rambling self-published and self-promotional site with no claim as to status or validity. It does not meet the guidance for wp:reliable sources and should not be used as a source, ever, by anyone.—Ash (talk) 08:56, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

Using godumentary.com as a source
This site fails WP:SPS and WP:RS. It makes no claims as to validity and the site registration is under a false identity and a doubtful anonymous PO box address in Arizona. It may exist to promote "Rainbow Products" or be part of a con. It is not a valid source and should not be used.—Ash (talk) 09:40, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

Using serversofall.com as a source
The article suffers from an overload of self published rubbish sources rather than reliable sources. The site http://www.serversofall.com is a personal site registered to "Altieri, L" with an aol.com email address as a contact. Consequently it is a self published source and is not suitable for a reference for anything.—Ash (talk) 09:42, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

Using tsl.org as a source
This site fails WP:RS, WP:SPAM, WP:ELNO and WP:SPS as it is a promotional website for Elizabeth Clare Prophet. The site promotes and sells her books, CD and courses. The site cannot be considered a reliable source for evidence and is not independent. It should not be used as a reference.—Ash (talk) 10:12, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

Using the templeofthepresence.org as a source
This site has no official affiliations and makes no such claims. It appears to exist in order to make money from subscribers, donations and the sale of books and CDs. The site appears to also promote Monroe Julius Shearer and Carolyn Louise Shearer as "anointed representatives". The site consequently appears to be a straightforward scam and should not be used as an External link as it fails WP:SPAM or used as a reference as it fails WP:RS.—Ash (talk) 11:22, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

Bias in sources - this article is promotional
A glance at the sources in this article shows a complete bias to publications by organizations devoted to promoting Theosophy. To ignore all the articles which debunk the claims and quotes from people who have been in "telepathic" contact with "Masters" (such as Blavatsky and Creme) appears deliberate bias and makes this Wikipedia article completely non-encyclopaedic. Events are apparently glossed over such as the 1993 apology from Maria Devi Khristos, the "living god of the Great White Brotherhood", when her forecasts of doom came and went without an apocalypse though in the process had encouraged 150,000 people to commit suicide (original source).—Ash (talk) 14:23, 20 September 2009 (UTC)


 * Feel free to add sources to compensate then, in stead of complaining here? But I would not know how you would debunk someone hearing voices... one can only disbelieve the merit of such an experience, hardly debunk it - unless you find a taperecorder hidden somewhere, LOL. Xiutwel-0002 (talk) 17:49, 7 November 2009 (UTC)

Weasel Words in lead paragraph?
I assume that the Great White Brotherhood is recognised by so-called GWB-adepts. But that would hardly be informational. So I do not believe that "some" and "various" are weasel words to be avoided: it is just a fact that the GWB will not be recognized as valid or significant by all New Age groups, so what better way to describe? I propose to remove the "weasel" tags. Xiutwel-0002 (talk) 17:49, 7 November 2009 (UTC)

Inaccuracy
This article is very badly written and contextually inaccurate. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.141.24.213 (talk) 19:53, 17 March 2010 (UTC)

Previous Comment deleted ..Why?
As a man thinketh so is he. Is that a threat too? Well I guess that depends how you think!

Masters, teachers prophets sages of all ages old and new have plainly made it clear to anyone including now all self appointed wiki sherpas who practices occult law or seeks to study the philosophy and teachings therein should pay wise attention to the forces involved that can as easily drag a man out to sea as a strong tidal current.

My previous comment was nothing more than plain and simple good advice. It would do no more than to allow an individual such as yourself to better inform themselves as to the nature of a subject which at best takes years of study and lets not forget practice in order to navigate safely.

I would no more more advise you step on a live rail than invoke forces, beings or elements you have no understanding of lest you have been taught from the highest source - a living master.

I understand all to well that we live in days of political correctness where peoples sensitivity for whatever reasons are highly attuned. Now I have made myself as plain as english and have said in a good deal more words what a simple reflection on your part might have done in so few or if the great white brotherhood had your heart and mind none at all.

Let us be friends and help make this a safe and respectable environment for those who wish to undertake all future study. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Hermesion (talk • contribs) 18:26, 21 March 2010 (UTC)

Edgar Cayce and the Great White Brotherhood
The last sentence of the introductory paragraph states, "Various people have said they have received messages from these beings, including most notably Helena Petrovna Blavatsky (Theosophy), Aleister Crowley (Thelema), Alice A. Bailey (New Group of World Servers), Guy Ballard ("I AM" Activity), Elizabeth Clare Prophet (Church Universal and Triumphant) and Benjamin Creme (Share International).[1]" Edgar Cayce should be added to the list above as one who has received messages from the Great White Brotherhood. The following sources support this fact: The Edgar Cayce Companion - A Comprehensive Treatise of the Edgar Cayce Readings by B. Ernest Frejer, http://www.edgarcaycebooks.org/companion.html, http://www.edgarcayce.org/are/ancient_mysteries.aspx?id=2667&terms=Great%20White%20Brotherhood, http://mercury7rising.com/Brotherhood'sastrology.htm, http://wisdom-magazine.com/Article.aspx/2100/ The Light Within (talk) 01:39, 10 August 2011 (UTC)

I agree that Cayce should be an important source of info for this article. Perhaps the most relevant Cayce reading on the topic is the following which appears in the book cited above: 3. Then, with Hermes and Ra (those that assumed or took up the work of Araaraart) there began the building of that now called Gizeh, with which those prophecies that had been in the Temple of Records and the Temple Beautiful were builded, in the building of this that was to be the hall of the initiates of that sometimes referred to as the White Brotherhood.

4. This, then, receives all the records from the beginnings of that given by the priest, Arart, Araaraart and Ra, to that period when there is to be the change in the earth's position and the return of the Great Initiate to that and other lands for the folding up of those prophecies that are depicted there. All changes that came in the religious thought in the world are shown there, in the variations in which the passage through same is reached, from the base to the top - or to the open tomb AND the top. These are signified by both the layer and the color in what direction the turn is made.

5. This, then, is the purpose for the record and the meaning to be interpreted by those that have come and do come as the teachers of the various periods, in the experience of this present position, of the activity of the spheres, of the earth.

6. In the period that is to come, this ends - as to that point which is between what is termed in chronological time in present - between 1950 and '58, but there have been portions that have been removed by those that desecrated many of those other records in the same land. This was rejected by that Pharaoh who hindered in the peoples leaving the land.

7. (Q) Are the deductions and conclusions arrived at by D. Davidson and H. Aldersmith in their book on The Great Pyramid correct? (A) Many of these that have been taken as deductions are correct. Many are far overdrawn. Only an initiate may understand.

8. (Q) What corrections for the period of the 20th century? (A) Only those that there will be an upheaval in '36.

9. (Q) Do you mean there will be an upheaval in '36 as recorded in the pyramid? (A) As recorded in the pyramid, though this is set for a correction, which, as has been given, is between '32 AND '38 - the correction would be, for this - as seen - is '36 - for it is in many - these run from specific days; for, as has been seen, there are periods when even the hour, day, year, place, country, nation, town, and individuals are pointed out. That's how correct are many of those prophecies as made.

Oft may there be changes that bring periods, as seen in that period when there was an alteration in that initiate in the land of Zu and Ra that BROUGHT a change, but at a different point because of being driven by those that were set as the guides or guards of same.

In this same pyramid did the Great Initiate, the Master, take those last of the Brotherhood degrees with John, the forerunner of Him, at that place. As is indicated in that period where entrance is shown to be in that land that was set apart, as that promised to that peculiar peoples, as were rejected - as is shown in that portion when there is the turning back from the raising up of Xerxes as the deliverer from an unknown tongue or land, and again is there seen that this occurs in the entrance of the Messiah in this period - 1998. 174.56.108.198 (talk) 00:33, 15 June 2021 (UTC)

Redirect
No third party references were included on the article, and nothing has been done about it in over four years, the article was a copy and paste from a few Theosophical books, I have moved some of the sourced material to the Ascended master article, theres is no need to keep a separate article for the Great White Brotherhood. Article has been redirected. GreenUniverse (talk) 02:11, 11 January 2012 (UTC)

spam/defamation attempt
A user with IP 37.244.245.204 made several attempts to add my name (Danijel Turina) to the list of persons mentioned in the article, probably as a part of some weird defamation campaign, as I have nothing to do with this and my inclusion in this list is a factual error. I have had no contacts whatsoever with any brotherhood, whatever the color. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 93.136.194.220 (talk) 12:28, 7 August 2013 (UTC)

Complete revision proposal
As I will be working on an essay on the subject this spring, I propose to undertake a complete revision of this article and sort out the problems pointed out in the Talk page. I currently study esoteric traditions in the university of Groningen, and I have contributed several articles to the Finnish wikipedia.

http://users.utu.fi/aasapo/en

Hikikurttu (talk) 10:19, 21 March 2016 (UTC)