Talk:Greek Americans/Archive 1

Greek-American or Greco-American?
I keep seeing "Geek-American" every time I set my eyes briefly on the name of this page. I wonder if Greco-American would be acceptable? AlainV 08:10, 26 Jun 2004 (UTC)


 * Well, every usage I've seen has been either "Greek-American" or "Hellenic American" (with or without hyphen), with "Greek-American" being the more common one. I used to intern for a guy who lobbied for the Greek-American community. [[User:Meelar|Meelar (talk)]] 17:19, 29 Jun 2004 (UTC)

I Tentatively Dispute Jay Leno's Inclusion On This List
According to many sources, Jay Leno is Italian on his father's side and Scottish on his mother's.

http://www.google.com/search?q=Jay+Leno+Italian+Scottish&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&safe=off

--BKHal2007 21:01, 5 Aug 2004 (UTC)BKHal2007


 * Removed Leno from the list. He just isn't Greek. --JW1805 01:40, 21 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Bob Costas, However, Is a Greek-American
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2004/writers/richard_deitsch/07/02/media.0702/

--BKHal2007 21:06, 5 Aug 2004 (UTC)BKHal2007

Why so many criminals?
I propose to delete the criminals, accused criminals, etc. that are on this list. It just seems odd to have so many. Especially since a lot of them are very minor (the title of the list is "Famous Greek Americans")--JW1805 01:40, 21 Nov 2004 (UTC)


 * Sorry, I'd been reverting the habitual vandalism, but missed one. Also: The page doesn't normally have descriptions at all, so I dropped your cleaned-up versions of the descriptions, but if you think it looks better with them, go ahead and put them back.  BCoates 22:55, 21 Nov 2004 (UTC)

"My Big Fat Greek Wedding" as an encyclopedic source
I removed the reference to My Big Fat Greek Wedding regarding the steretypes against Greek-Americans in the article. I do acknowledge that such stereotypes do exist, but a romantic comedy such as MBFGW is not a reliable depiction of them. Almost every comedy script relies on excessive amounts of hype and exaggeration to produce laughter; MBFGW is no exception to this. Etz Haim 14:27, 7 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Photo positioning
Comparing my last version (16:02, 28 Apr 2005) with the current one (16:48, 28 Apr 2005). The current one does look best in Microsoft IE, but looks awful in Mozilla Firefox (esp. if the window is 800p wide or less). I suspect neither version uses the best method to best align photos to the right. Any suggestions? Sysin 17:57, 28 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Move to Greek American
I've moved this article to Greek American, which is the appropriate noun form (only adjective should be hyphenated) and would be consistent with German American, African American, Arab American etc. See also: Hyphenated American. --Laura Scudder | Talk 20:45, 20 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Is Robert Zemeckis Greek heritage?
Some people say Zemeckis is Greek surname - but I found this name in a Lithuanian organization. Could you give me a tip? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 1523 (talk • contribs) 01:58, 7 July 2005 (UTC)


 * Greek and Lithuanian names often sound alike (the ck gives it away that its almost certainly not greek). Sysin 7 July 2005 04:08 (UTC)

Time to split off the list
Hey guys, it time for someone to split off the list of notable Greek-Americans into its own article, its getting to be a real detraction from the main article as it stands now... Fawcett5 01:01, 1 October 2005 (UTC)


 * I dont think that is needed. I have made a few changes, some persons are ry obscure and there are quite a few more famous.
 * On Rae Dalven I knew her and she was certainly not Shephardic, but Romaniote, which is fundimentally different. Romaniote is a Greek Jew with a high level of Greek national and ethnic self identity and certainly language.DaveHM 16:32, 13 December 2005 (UTC)


 * I agree, we should move this section to List of Greek Americans. --JW1805 (Talk) 06:36, 25 March 2006 (UTC)

Kelly Clarkson
Is she actually Greek? Her parents name are very non-Greek (mother's name "Jeanne Ann Rose"). All the references to Clarkson say she's "Greek/Irish/German", and all no doubt stem from the IMDB, who I wouldn't trust with that kind of information. Too many little tidbits from the IMDB, which are not even close to being correct, have been copied-pasted-and redistributed across the net. I think this might be another one. Does anyone have a good source for this? Like an in-depth interview or something that didn't come from the IMDB? 24.141.147.6 02:15, 7 December 2005 (UTC)

Fractions of background
I am going to remove the fractions of background. many are unsubstantiated, and the result creates a problems (people dont cosider themselves 1/4 something, they tend to just state or self nominate a background's or increasingly multiple backgrounds). The way it was done is not typical in other xxxx-American pages.DaveHM 22:16, 17 December 2005 (UTC)


 * Please don't ever use the term "self-nominate". Check List of Jewish actors and actresses among one of many pages that has these notes. A person reading this would think someone who is 1/4 Greek is 100% Greek, and that is misleading. The other pages are being worked on (see List of Italian-American actors to remove this misleading style and add the proper notes as to each person. Vulturell 05:52, 18 December 2005 (UTC)


 * Self nominate is the term and process used to determin ethinc background n the US. E.G. cencusquestionaries do not ask to indetify"%". And it is used to in US ethnic studies. Other terms tend to invlove nomination by others, which is highly innaprprpritate.
 * Ideas like your assertion of determining who is "100% Greek" are inherrently racial/racist based and really bring no meaning.
 * In the US certainly and in Europe if you follow minoritiy sudies, self nomination based on even single ancestor is the determining factor and the mechanism of determination many years ago.
 * The "notes to each person" on background are often factually incorrect and patronizing. That is why no one listed as "1/4" anything on the List of Italian Americans -- contrary to your claims. It is a very strange construction and does not belong on wikipedia.DaveHM 09:46, 18 December 2005 (UTC)


 * The notes are nither patronizing not factually incorrect. It is silly to list Calista Flockhart (great Greek-grandmother) here without explaining "how Greek" she is. And many others, not the least of which indeed includes DiScala. Self-Nomination is POV, most likely the editor's and not the person's. I am reporting facts here. Facts are what matters, not your, not mine, not the person themselves' interpretation of the facts. I absolutely would refuse to list a person who is something like 1/32nd Greek and calls themselves "Greek". Absolutely would. That's enforcing their POV - and it is still POV. If I call myself "French" it doesn't make me "French" and if Jennifer Aniston calls herself "the best actress in the world" we still would not listen her as the best actress in the world. This page needs to be informative and factual. Listing every person who mentioned "Greek" as part of something like a dozen backgrounds is neither informative nor factual. This isn't a "list of Americans who have some Greek ancestry", we should point out when a person isn't "all Greek", because reading this page a person would assume that they are, if we didn't tell them otherwise; this is blatant POV. This is the system that is used for every ethnicity based page. An exception should absolutely not be made here. Oh, and I was talking about List of Italian-American actors, which uses this system. The people on List of Italian-Americans ARE 100% Italian, the actors page lists people of lesser Italian descent and is thus classified under the same system as this page. Vulturell 17:55, 18 December 2005 (UTC)


 * That is an absurd race based method not used in America. Ancestry in American is 100% self nominated. Just look at the way the census works. a person 1.10 Italian who says they are Italian descent is exactly what they say they are.
 * In the end from other edits elsewhere you seem to have a weird obsession with telling other people what they are -- and are not. Case in point is your UNENDING REFUSAL to accept Jamie Lynn Sigler's SELF NOMINATION.
 * here is her quote: ''I have no Italian in me. I’m Cuban, Greek, Romanian, and Sephardic Jew, so I couldn’t get further from Italian. But I guess I’ve been adopted into that family, too.
 * That is from her own mouth when specifically asked . She does NOT only say Greek Sephardic Jew, she says she is Greek.
 * YOu nominate yourself as judge against what she she says she is despite her statement -- when specifically asked -- and have removed her self nomination about 12 times from her page.
 * It is unethical of you and won't work.
 * A sepcific notation on Greek Jews has been made here. It is very helpful. She is named there.
 * Your problem, face it, is the idea that Greek Jews foten consider themselves Greek. You are obsesseded with denying other people's self nomination and sytematically erasing their own words. DaveHM 20:37, 18 December 2005 (UTC)

The people on List of Italian-Americans ARE 100% Italian,  No they are notDaveHM 20:38, 18 December 2005 (UTC)


 * Yes, we also have the "nice Jewish girl" quote. But we are not using quotes to describe someone's ancestry, we are using encyclopedic language and descriptions, which is what we have today. It is not encyclopedic to list someone as "Greek" without explaining that they are only Greek on their father's side. Calista Flockhart, DiScala, and frankly anyone else on this list who isn't 100% Greek have never "self nominated" (POV again) themselves to be just "Greek". They have always explained the fraction of their ancestry. We have to report the full story. That's the only non-POV way. I am not facing anything except reverting crap, POV, statements on the DiScala page and pointless reductions of info from this page. If you say those people aren't 100% ITalian you are going to have to prove it. Also, you may want to check out No_personal_attacks when it comes to using statements like "you are obsessed". Thanks. Vulturell 20:41, 18 December 2005 (UTC)

But we are not using quotes to describe someone's ancestry,  Of course we are. You contend when a person is specifically asked, it doesn't count but yoor opinion as a third party stranger does. fascinating! a) that is absurd and race based POV b) I am using the method the census uses, you are injecting your raced-based view. c) "self nomination" is not POV, it is method used by the US census and the American viewoint on these issues. You ae using some 18th century race based view which denies persons the right to state their identity. it doesn't belong here.

''If you say those people aren't 100% ITalian you are going to have to prove it. ''' I am pointing to the fact that yor claim that they are 100% Itlaian based on your racial formulation is wrong. You brought up the example and then found that you were completely wrong. don't get upset at me!DaveHM 21:00, 18 December 2005 (UTC)


 * OK, I am not responding to this travesty anymore. You either A. make personal accusations involving racism, B. present information that you do not bother to prove (i.e. Sigler speaking Greek, the Italian lists listing someone who isn't 100% Italian) and C. complete ignore what I say. None of the people who are listed as having just a Greek parent or great-grandprent have ever said just "Greek" when it comes to their background. You could count that as self-nomination, possibly. But in their cases they've always mentioned Greek as a just a fraction of their background, and that is how it is listed here. Stop trying to promote whichever POV and preventing me from presenting the complete, correct and verified version of whoever's background. Vulturell 21:03, 18 December 2005 (UTC)


 * the only travesty is your constant reversions to 19th century raced based models
 * Your insistance on defining people as 100% x or 1/4  is ridicoulos and not used by the cenus or any serious contemporary scholarn the US. Peopel self ascribve here.


 * Just stop making these outrageous, non-factual accusations. By putting down, say, "Calista Flockhart (Greek great-grandmother)" I am saying exactly that. That Flockhart had a Greek great-grandmother. It is non-factual and non-POV to list Calista Flockhart here as is, people would assume she's "just" Greek American. It's that simple. Vulturell 22:54, 19 December 2005 (UTC)

Suggestion, would it be useful to rename the list to something like "Americans of Greek ancestry"? Then we wouldn't have to worry about how many ancestors had come from Greece how many generations ago. -Willmcw 23:22, 19 December 2005 (UTC)


 * Well, the thing is, a page called "Americans of Greek ancestry" would by nature have to point out exactly what this ancestry is. I.e. see List of British people of Jewish descent. Vulturell 23:24, 19 December 2005 (UTC)


 * But it would allow those with only one Greek great-grandfather to be on the list. -Willmcw 23:48, 19 December 2005 (UTC)


 * Oh, I think you must have misunderstood. Those people are already on the list - actually - just the one person we know of, Calista Flockhart. The argument here is whether the little tabs like "(Greek father)" for people who are only Greek on their father's side, and further down to grandfather, etc. should be here. My claim is that most other lists use these tabs, and the rare ones that don't will be adjusted sooner than later, and that it's misleading to leave the people on here without a tab like that. Vulturell 23:50, 19 December 2005 (UTC)


 * Willmcw, thank you. We need to sort this out because many Wikipedia pages correctly note the census methodology, which was made after extensive consultation with social scientists studying ethnic and ancestry self nomination to come to a specific set of criteria and language.
 * The simplest model is to do what pages that have avoided contention do. If the notable person has a known or stated ancestry in a group they will be listed in that group list; simply and without strange constructions or genealogies. If they have other ancestries known or stated they should go on those lists in the same simple way. On their Individual biography pages on Wikipedia, if they have known or stated multiple ancestry, that should be stated and linked.
 * More background: This is already a complex issue and this why the term used today is "of ancestry." this is defined by the census bureau with these exact words:
 * The data on ancestry were derived from answers to questionnaire item 12. The question was based on self-identification; the data on ancestry represent self-classification by people according to the ancestry group(s) with which they most closely identify. Ancestry refers to a person’s ethnic origin or descent, "roots," or heritage or the place of birth of the person or the person's parents or ancestors before their arrival in the United States.
 * Anyone familiar with US ancestry studies knows large and increasing numbers of people on all these lists all over wikipedia would have multiple ancestries. The answer is simple: do what the Census bureau, Americans who identify, and sociologist do: A person who has two ancestries, one Irish and one Italian is both an "American of Irish ancestry" and an "American of Italian ancestry."
 * Please look at List of Italian Americans. This is the method that is best and is consistent with the census self nomination methodology. On that list family trees are not noted. Such notations cause problems.
 * That data which would go to multiple ancestries belongs on each individual persons page/stub if one exists. That is the way responsible editors have been doing it. Otherwise we are ascribing fractional identity that may not apply.
 * Thus Sofia Coppola is listed under List_of_Italian_Americans properly with no stilted language on her family tree included. The proper place for Ms. Coppola multiple ancestry is her main page and indeed on Sofia Coppola that is EXACTLY what is done. Indeed her other ancestry, English, when you go to the "list" section of English Americans does not include these family tees. She is there simply listed as English American...no weird fraction.
 * There are many people List of Italian Americans multiple ancestries. It is not included there because this becomes absurd
 * Another example, does Quentin Tarantino notation on the List of Italian Americans have "Italian-Irish-Indian American"? No. He is listed as List of Italian Americans and he is also listed on the Irish American list. His full ancestry is noted in the only place it properly belongs on wikipedia if at all: Quentin_Tarantino.
 * User Vultrell has recently gone through many pages all over wikipedia changing the Italian pages and other pages based on this artifice, eg:, adding these bizarre lengthy constructions where they don’t belong. These constructions spark conflict, and attribute identity the person themselves may not self ascribe.
 * He has some extreme POV's as to what includes and what excludes persons. He went to Jamie Lynne Discala page and removed altogether several users’ notes she was Greek American. He has removed her designation on her page under Category: Greek-Americans multiple times, despite protests of several users going back a long time. I never removed category Jewish American (I would never for personal reasons), but he keeps removing category Greek American and her stated ascrption. [I fully suported his addition and exposition of her Jewish identity on her main page but he inists on denying her Greek identity.] He has some weird criteria for exclusion. I believe in the inclusive method used by the census. If you are 1/16 German American and say so on the census you are added to the German ancestry numbers.
 * When a dispute arose I added for clarity her exact quote: ''I have no Italian in me. I’m Cuban, Greek, Romanian, and Sephardic Jew, so I couldn’t get further from Italian. But I guess I’ve been adopted into that family, too.
 * I made a good section on the Greek Romaniote and Sephardic communities(it is a subject I well know)  in the spirit of INCLUSION, user vultrelle removed it repeatedly Without going into an entire dissertation, Romaniotes are Greek speaking culturally Greek in many ways, in addition to being Jewish. The many I have met at the synagogue in  New York overwhelmingly call themselves Geek Americans who are Jewish. Rae Dalven, whom I knew, certainly did. Gabrielle Carteris,. Who is incorrectly listed as Sephardic is Romaniote, with an actually a not rare in Greece Romaniote name.  Sephardim from Greece may or may not make a self ascription as having a Greek background depending where they came from. Many I know do but I know do not. Some emphasize Spanish, or nothing besides Jewish. That is fine, but those with a stated identity are unambiguously properly listed on this list without “qualification”
 * In the case of ms discala/sigler, the self nomination when specifically asked was: “...Greek…..[and] Sephardic] Jew.’’ She belngs on each list simply and plainly, and the specifics, including her own multiple self ascription belong her main page.DaveHM 13:00, 20 December 2005 (UTC)

I beg you, stop it. Don't take out information that is factually correct. Sysin 13:48, 20 December 2005 (UTC)


 * You did not read any of the comments, it was a comprimise, I modified the description in the first graph which is now back as incorrect and misleading. that number refers to this:The question was based on self-identification; the data on ancestry represent self-classification by people according to the ancestry group(s) with which they most closely identify. Ancestry refers to a person’s ethnic origin or descent, "roots," or heritage or the place of birth of the person or the person's parents or ancestors before their arrival in the United States. that is here the number coems from.
 * The removal of various strange constrcutions, is line with the way most of the other large lists are eg Irish americans and Italian Americans. There are many persons this list with multiple ancestries not listed as such. DaveHM 14:00, 20 December 2005 (UTC)


 * For the lovva, if I have to read any more self-serving crap about "self-identification" and any more idiocy about 19th century racial policies! Don't you realize that you, and I mean you, don't HAVE any specific information as to the people with the fraction's "self-identification"? Don't you realize that some of the people here were added because the original editors just found some notation about them having Greek ancestry? I.e. Charles Lederer and Patricia Lake are only here because their mothers are known to be half Greek. Or Calista Flockhart? How do you know what the heck these people identify themselves "as"? You don't, plain and simple. But you're not going to answer this question, are you? You're going to accuse me of being a vicious Nazi 19th century racialist again, right? Well, even if I was the rotting corpse of Adolf Hitler himself, the point here is this is the most correct, complete version and there is no way, I repeat no way for us - the Wikipedia editors - to know what the majority of people who aren't mulit-million super-stars and have thousands of articles written about every detail in their lives identify as. Even your fav, DiScala, she's never called herself Greek. You know and I know her exact background, and yet you insist on clouding in on her page with weird quotes when just the factual info would do. She's never called herself just "Greek" (though she has called herself just Jewish), she's always mentioned her Greek Jewish ancestor as just a fraction of her background. Yes, the main Italian-Americans page has a few omissions like Coppola, but if I don't have to spend time arguing with you then I will head over there and fix it. Vulturell 17:39, 20 December 2005 (UTC)


 * OK, you have now (a moment ago) removed the "category Greek American" from Discala wikipedia page for what the 30th time?
 * You are going through wikipdia and category Greek Amiercans on their pages and despite their own quotes. you teh remove their quotes where theyboast of beign Greek Ameircan.
 * She was asked about her ehtnicity and she said,Cuban, Greek, Romanian and Sephardi Jewish
 * I have never accused you of being a nazi or a racist. Youa re advacning a quadroon thesis that is racist.
 * Why do you have such a problem with "self identification". That is the ONLY method the ceus numbers used only these articles use!
 * Pleese provide this bogus quote you keep mentioning about fractions reltative to being Greek adn Jewish. Faking quotes is truley depserate. Please provide that quote. thanks.DaveHM 17:54, 20 December 2005 (UTC)


 * You just provided that quote. She didn't say she was "just" Greek". She mentioned a whole slew of backgrounds. Oh, and I am in the process, right now, of fixing up the Italian-Americans page. Vulturell 17:58, 20 December 2005 (UTC)


 * that is not a "fraction" which yoo used in quotes. Do you know what a quote is?DaveHM 18:17, 20 December 2005 (UTC)


 * Yes, it is a fraction in the sense that you use it. I never use "1/4" or whatever in descriptions. I say "Greek Jewish grandmother". This is about as much a fraction as that in the quote. Vulturell 18:21, 20 December 2005 (UTC)

USer Vutrells anti Greek Jewish ancestry Crusade
Look here: http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Jamie-Lynn_DiScala&curid=524375&diff=32120983&oldid=32086768

Look at line 32. Once again he keeps removing 'category Greek Americans' from the wikipage of a person with Greek ancestry who boasts to being "Greek!" he then redacts the quotes!

There is some weird thing going on with his POV that people are not Greek and Jewish or "that Greek Jews are not Greeks" (even those who say they are)! It seriously problematic. that is what spilled over here.

In the US self identification is respected! It is not as Vultrell has said above, "crap."

One more in a series of falsifications by Vultrell: Even your fav, DiScala, she's never called herself Greek What? That is staliniod now 'never called herself a Greek'. He keeps deleting the quote from her wikipedia page where she says she is! He appoint yourself the arbitor of what she is and is and is not despite her SOURCED quote nere: DaveHM 18:22, 20 December 2005 (UTC)


 * Even if discalia said she was greek she is not ethnic greek. Many people hold dual citizenships and label themselves for instance "French" when they are ethnically arab. They are not ethnic french even if they consider themselves to be French. I think this applies in this case.
 * JJstroker 02:31, 12 February 2006 (UTC)

User vulturell's mental breakdown

 * Oh, jebus. I can't continue this stupid discussion. I'm going to just revert your edits, man. This is too much even for me. I said she never called herself just Greek, i.e. "HEY MAN, I"M GREEK", she's always said "I'm greek, spanish, irish, whatever". as in a part of her background but not all of it. But she HAS called herself just Jewish . Did you just use the word Stalinoid? hahahhaha

Vulturell 18:29, 20 December 2005 (UTC)

Rv of CLW's updates
I'm not opposed to some cleanup, but I felt some of the changes were too radical and should be discussed. Red links are opportunities for new articles, I've added a number of new articles as a result of clicking links on this page. Many of the red links are the result of the well-known modern-day bias of wikipedia (for example, why does Andreas Katsulas have an article, while Robert Karvelas does not? Perhaps because RK had his days of fame 40 years before WP was created). Regards, Sysin 18:59, 9 January 2006 (UTC)

ethnic greeks? massive cleanup
I think we should only list ethnic greeks. I did a massive organization but I didnt delete anyone except for greg louganis (adopted greek not ethnically) I think we should only list ethnic greeks. Heck if I move to greece would I be greek? I wouldnt and people reading the article primarily want to see ethnic greeks. This way we can keep the article prestine and clear of polution of non greeks. Also I think we should delete the shepardic Jewish people because they are not ethnic greeks. That is like a french man moving to China and being labeled a ethnic Chinese. Just doesnt make sense even if they held greek citizenship. Does anyone agree?

JJstroker 02:28, 12 February 2006 (UTC)


 * This is a difficult question to answer. Surely people with a Greek Jewish grandparent and nothing else remotely Greek should probably be deleted, but as you can see from the above argument by that Dave guy, it seems reasonable (to some people) to list people who are "fully" Sephardic Greek Jews, at least. I have no strong opinion on the subject myself, but coming back to this page brings back nightmares of DaveHM's pre-Christmas rants and Greekification of Jamie-Lynn DiScala. Vulturell 02:52, 12 February 2006 (UTC)


 * If I was born in China, and my parents and grandparents were born in China, then I'd be Chinese, even if my ancestors came from France. You could call me "French-Chinese". Are the Boers African or European? They would, I believe, proudly claim to be African. If you want to limit the article in special ways, I suggest that the article title would need to be changed to match. "Non-Jewish Greek Americsns" or something similar. Altogether, it does not seem like a helpful suggestion. -Will Beback 19:16, 12 February 2006 (UTC)


 * Sure I dont have a problem with that. JJstroker 19:32, 12 February 2006 (UTC)

propose to make famous greeks a new page...
I would like to organize all the famous americans pages into a group. Most pages are listed as: While Greeks are just listed as "Greek Americans" which de organizes it with the other pages. I would like to make a new page and label it "Greek-Americans".
 * German-Americans
 * French-Americans
 * Dutch-Americans

It would also organize it from the other info on the page. Famous people pages are usually reserved for themselves. Does anyone agree? — Preceding unsigned comment added by JJstroker (talk • contribs) 19:44, 12 February 2006 (UTC)


 * I don't quite follow your suggestion. Article titles are always singular. If you'd like to move the list to "List of Greek-Americans" then that shouldn't be a problem. It is implied that such lists are limited to notable people. -Will Beback 21:48, 12 February 2006 (UTC)

Categories
Cudos to JJstroker; the article did need the categorization. My only comment is that I don't believe it is appropriate to separate the Greek Jews out from the rest of the names. By the way, if you notice anyone entering "Hastopolis" on the list, please rv it if I don't see it first; this is a name with 0 google hits, even on the website of the radio station where he supposedly works. sys &lt; in 07:17, 13 February 2006 (UTC)


 * JJ, I strongly believe we should move the Jewish-Greek Americans in with the "standard" categories. It is self-contradictory to include them under Greek-Americans, and then segregate them in a separate category. Especially when the list includes Rae Dalven who has done more to spread Greek culture in the USA than 99% of the other Greek-Americans out there. sys &lt; in 07:41, 14 February 2006 (UTC)

JJ, I moved the Jewish Greeks into the normal categories, for the reasons noted above. I also re-added Louganis; even though he is Greek by adoption, he has many numerous statements about his family's Greek roots. sys &lt; in 08:07, 15 February 2006 (UTC)


 * An advantage of lists is that we can annotate them. There's no problem adding in parentheses that one person is Jewish, another is adopted, or a third is really Macedonian. -Will Beback 18:04, 15 February 2006 (UTC)


 * As a real Macedonian American (which, ofcourse, is a subset of Greek American) I agree. sys &lt; in 19:04, 15 February 2006 (UTC)


 * There's a few people that I've added to the list a while back which I need to work on their articles on but haven't had the time yet so I came to see how the page looks and I must say...Wow!! The clean up job done on this page looks great. Mallaccaos, 16 February 2006


 * Alright sysin. My primary concern by integrating the Jewish Greeks is that it is poluting the ethnic greeks with non ethnic greeks. I feel that the foundation of these articles are the definition of ethnic people. I really dont mind but I would prefer to have the article strictly list ethnic greeks because if not these articles may start to get poluted with people who are not ethincally the stated people.
 * I think a better alternative would to put these people in their original ethnic pages while segregating them at the same time. Even if we do segregate them in the Greek page they are still listed as Greeks just Jewish-Greeks, adopted Greeks, etc. They are not the same as ethnic greeks therefore I made a category distinction because it is a bit misleading. For example Greg Louganis is ethinically Swedish and Somaian. We can put him in Swedish Americans and note that he identifys himself as Greek and has Greek parents. I feel that this would be more accurate. There really wouldnt be a point for these articles if we listed every single ethinically non Greek person who has a greek citizenship and applied this to all of the famous ethnic group pages. I just think there shouldnt be an acception for a few people because you would have to follow the same rule for everyone which would take a toll on the content quality of the pages. If these people where part Jewish and part ethinic greek I say leave them but if they dont have any greek ancestry we should think it over. I will leave it up to you though and for others to vote on it.
 * JJstroker 12:19, 17 February 2006 (UTC)


 * I see your point. On adopted children, I strongly believe that if they were raised as Greek (or Italian/Jewish/etc) American, then they are Greek (Italian/Jewish/etc) American.
 * I agree that there are plenty of people on this list that do not consider themselves Greek-American, and know nothing about Greece even though they have a Greek name and "DNA" (whatever that means). I did not add them to the list. Living in New York I've come across lots of people with two Greek parents whom I would not call Greek-American. I agree that they should not be on the list, but it unless you can go ask the people involved themselves, you'll probably not know if they belong or not.
 * Similarly for Jewish Americans from Greece, their connection to Greece varies. On the one hand are people like Rae Darven and other (mostly Romaniote) Jews that call themselves "Greek Jews" with pride. On the other hand, there some big-name actors who happen to have a great-grandparent from Greece, and don't feel Greek at all (and whose grandparent probably didn't feel Greek either, if they were Sephardic). I agree those should be removed (then again, they'll probably be re-added by someone else later). sys &lt; in 16:34, 17 February 2006 (UTC)


 * If people have ethnic greek parents but do not really consider themselves greek they are still greek. Although I find it odd for people to disconnect themselves from their heritage. I just feel that the pages should only have the listed people from the particular ethnic group. There wouldnt be any fun if you just listed everyone who just happened to have greek, french, german citizenship etc. Especially considering the massive multiculturalism influx of immigrants today. It is a bit cheating. If I where to move to Iraq as a white guy and receive citizenship I would maybe consider myself a Iraqi-American. Although deep down I would know that I am not really iraqi. Do you see what I mean? I dont have any hard feelings to the people you want to list I just hope you see what I am saying. Its up to you i just think we should take protective measures to keep the article from getting poluted with non greeks.
 * JJstroker 21:01, 17 February 2006 (UTC)


 * I do agree that the list is presently too long with people that are not very Greek (like Calista Flockhart) or not very notable (like, er, Calista Flockhart...), but I won't sweat it unless someone is completely non-Greek or completely non-notable. I think some people are having fun digging for 1/32 or 1/64 Greek ancestries of their favorite stars, and who am I to spoil their fun? sys &lt; in 21:19, 17 February 2006 (UTC)

These lists are of course difficult. here are my thoughts: Calista Flockhart, Jennifer Aniston, Mena Suvari have attended a number of Greek heritige charity events and talked about their Greek grandparents. Keep in mind these lists are not about Greece, they are about Greek Americans, who are predominantly totally assimilated but proud of this aspect of their background. so these people are germaine on several levels.71.252.57.206 06:47, 21 July 2006 (UTC)

Some standards
Mallaccaos, I reverted the last edit. While I appreciate your contributions, I think we are starting to dig too far into C-list territory. Panio has a negligible number of Google hits, fewer than myself or many of my friends do, and we're not on the list. regards, sys &lt; in 19:40, 21 February 2006 (UTC)


 * Sorry Sysin, just saw this after I wrote Panio's article. I will revert and take him off the list.  ~Mallaccaos, 21 February 2006


 * Don't worry, since you went to the trouble to create an article, leave him on the list. sys &lt; in 22:43, 21 February 2006 (UTC)

Nicolette Sheridan
LOL, I can't believe I didn't notice her here until now. Just because some jerk submitted to the imdb that she's "of Greek heritage" doesn't make her Greek. Her stepfather was Greek, Telly Savalas. From what I can tell, that's about it. JackO&#39;Lantern 05:04, 7 April 2006 (UTC)


 * Another one is "Betty White". The IMDB used to say she's German, now they say she's German and Greek. No reliable sites say either one of those things. Anyway, I've been similarly cleaning up a few other ethnicity lists (see List of Swiss Americans for a complete one) and it looks like this is going to be my next one. JackO&#39;Lantern 05:07, 7 April 2006 (UTC)


 * Betty white is Greek, she speaks Greek and is a member of the daughters of penelope.71.252.57.206 06:48, 21 July 2006 (UTC)

People who I couldn't find a good source for
People who I couldn't find a good source for (and all the Wikis, NNDB, IMDB, and websites that copy Wikipedia aren't good sources)....


 * Vasili Bogazianos - just lists copied from Wikipedia JackO&#39;Lantern 06:47, 7 April 2006 (UTC)
 * You can't get any more Greek then that name. Also just because it is not on line it does not mean that this person is not of Greek descent...especially if they are male and their name is so obviously of Greek origins. I also came across this in the WP:V article: "Finding a good source may require some effort: Until more authors publish online, and more material is uploaded, some of the most reliable and informative sources are still available only in printed form. If you can't find a good source on the web, try a local library or bookstore. This can at times be a surprisingly fruitful endeavour." ~Mallaccaos, 13 April 2006


 * Paula Cale JackO&#39;Lantern 06:47, 7 April 2006 (UTC)
 * Her father is Tom C. Korologos: Mallaccaos, April 14, 2006


 * Marion Davies/Patricia Lake - looks like whoever decided that her father was Greek may have made a big mistake. Her father was Bernard Douras, a magistrate in New York. No reliable bios of Davies mention her father being Greek. In her online book at Amazon - she doesn't mention being Greek at all. In this huge bio on Hearst, her husband - also not mentioned. I suppose it's possible that he was, but I simply could not find anything reliable. I would think the books would mention - being Greek in the early 20th century was exotic enough. JackO&#39;Lantern 06:47, 7 April 2006 (UTC)
 * The last name Douras is of Greek originm but I agree to hold off until a more realiable source can be found. Mallaccaos, April 14, 2006


 * Frank Dicopoulos - seems likely, but all I could find were Wikis. JackO&#39;Lantern 06:47, 7 April 2006 (UTC)
 * "It's somewhat improvisational," says Emmy nominee Melina Kanakaredes, who, like Dicopoulos, grew up in a Greek-American family in Akron, Ohio. "The thing we have is the consistency: You've been playing the same character for a long time. Perhaps the words aren't perfect, but they come to you, because you know that character so well."'' . Mallaccaos, April 14, 2006


 * Michael Flessas JackO&#39;Lantern 06:47, 7 April 2006 (UTC)
 * Yes...Mallaccaos, April 14, 2006


 * Marilu Henner JackO&#39;Lantern 06:47, 7 April 2006 (UTC)
 * I'm not sure about this either. The only thing I came across was this: more research is required. Mallaccaos, April 14, 2006]


 * Robert Karvelas JackO&#39;Lantern 06:47, 7 April 2006 (UTC)
 * Born in Charleroi, Pennsylvania, Irish on mother's side and Greek on father's side, had a twin brother, Bill(Vasili). Related to Don Adams on mother's side. (From the History Channel's autobiography of Don Adams) Mallaccaos, April 14, 2006


 * Alex Karras JackO&#39;Lantern 06:47, 7 April 2006 (UTC)
 * I'm sorry if I sound skeptical here but did you actually do searches on these people? 'Cause if you typed in Alex Karras and Greek you would have gotten a few "relable" sources which would shown that he was of Greek origin....such as this Greek documentary in which he talks about his Greek-American heritage. Mallaccaos, April 14, 2006


 * Chris Kratt Martin Kratt JackO&#39;Lantern 06:47, 7 April 2006 (UTC)
 * The only thing I've come across on line was this: "And since my best friend and I are Italian and the Kratts are Greek, the four of us even sort of look alike." ~ Andrew Michael Parodi Mallaccaos, April 14, 2006


 * Sofia Milos - definitely half Greek, but is she a US citizen? JackO&#39;Lantern 06:47, 7 April 2006 (UTC)
 * Don't know but she is an American actress. Hey, thanks for making me look up all that info...again...I just found another famous Greek-American, Alex Holmes, his Greek on his mom's side and African-American on his dad's. ;) ~ Mallaccaos, April 14, 2006
 * Sorry, I know some of the names (or most) are obviously Greek, but we still need good sources and I'm working on sourcing all of these lists. Thanks for looking some of these up and finding the sources. Marion Davies is an intersting case because it looks like it's all over the net that she was Greek-Irish, but all of the sites are unreliable and usually stem either from Wiki or the IMDB, and I found it odd that none of the books on Davies mentioned it. I'd really like to find out for sure. Oh, and I'm certainly not saying that because it isn't online the person isn't of Greek descent. I wish it was that easy to look this kind of info up.... Mad Jack O&#39;Lantern 07:35, 17 April 2006 (UTC)

Also more names:
 * Dennis Boutsikaris
 * Boutsikaris is of Greek and American origins. His father, William Boutsikaris, is Greek and his mom, Jane Burg.  He also has a sister, Barbara Boutsikaris who is married to a Timothy Brook.  (1995 Life Time Achievement Awards). His aunt, Julia Burg Mayes, mom's sister, who was deaf, passed away in 2003. His uncle was Dr. Thomas A. Mayes, the "Father of Continuing Education"  for deaf and hard of hearing people. (JDCC)  Mallaccaos, April 17, 2006


 * Betty White/Nicolette Sheridan - as I said above, I would be really surprised if they are part Greek, I certainly haven't seen anything reliable online....
 * I have no clue where these two come into play as being Greek. The only "Greek" that Sheridan might have is through her step-dad and half brother.  Nothing about she, herself, being of Greek origins. Mallaccaos, April 17, 2006

Ethnicity lists discussion
Please see discussion at Wikipedia:Village pump (policy) for current discussion of a potential policy to apply to all ethnicity lists on Wikipedia, including this one. JackO&#39;Lantern 20:40, 11 April 2006 (UTC)

Move
I moved the list, which was getting quite long, to List of Greek Americans. --JW1805 (Talk) 18:57, 17 April 2006 (UTC)

Greek Town
Just wanted to let folks know I wrote an article about Greek Town in South Omaha, Nebraska where a mob burnt down the Greek district in 1909. - Freechild 07:30, 22 March 2007 (UTC)

Greek-American organized crime
Please take a look at Greek-American organized crime. The problem with the title is that it is ambiguous, it appears to link Greek Americans with the notion of "organized crime" implying guilt by association. A better heading may be Greek Americans and organized crime or some other more neutral heading you may wish to suggest. I have tried to do the same with Jewish-American organized crime by changing it to American Jews and organized crime but I was reverted, see Talk:Jewish-American organized crime. Only three articles in Category:Organized crime groups have this kind of "title": African-American organized crime; Greek-American organized crime and Jewish-American organized crime. So will there be 134 articles in the future about "Foo organized crime" for all 134 categories in Category:American people by ethnic or national origin and indeed for every class of human on Earth without hypocrisy??? Note how there is no article for Italian American organized crime as it's simply and correctly called Mafia. African Americans and Jewish Americans are not connected with organized crime as "representatives" or "symbols" of their race or religion. Every group has its criminals. So what else is new. Sure there are "gangs" just as there are Category:Mafia gangs in Category:Mafia groups (and by the way, if there are such African American or Jewish American gangs or groups then name them, but let's not leave it as if "guilt" is being laid at the door of all Greek Americans, African Americans or Jewish Americans etc), but the titles Greek-American organized crime or Jewish-American organized crime makes it sound, way, way bigger than it is in reality, and could easily slip into racism and antisemitism if not handled in a scrupulously WP:NPOV manner 100% of the time! The job of Wikipedia should not be to magnify the problem which is called POV editing, but to depict things accurately as they are. Please add your views. Thank you, IZAK 00:51, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

Photos
With regard to the photos posted of famous Greek-Americans: Erm...Electra Nachios isn't real. Really, she isn't. She's a comic-book charachter. How about a picture of a real person? 83.67.215.251 21:13, 4 July 2007 (UTC)


 * (From User:Gisvlasta). Lets be serious please! It is an article for a REAL group consisting of REAL people. I think that an image of Marvel comics superhero Electra Nachios has nothing to do with this article. It is a fictional character with a Greek name. That is all. Fictional Characters do not belong to Real People sets ! (Simple set mathematics). This is the reason I removed the picture 'http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Elektra_3.jpg' from the article. Whoever thinks that this picture has something to do with 'Greek' I suggest him/her to create an article for Comic Superhero Characters with Greek names. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Gisvlasta (talk • contribs) 02:05, 5 July 2007 (UTC)


 * Also, I think we should only be including people that self-identify as Greek-Americans and not Americans of " X, Y, Greek and Z" descent. I guess even the latter could be included if at the very least there is some connection with Greece and/or Greek culture and/or Greek language (e.g. borderline case Tommy Lee). Causantin (talk) 15:36, 21 January 2008 (UTC)

Tommy Lee was born in Greece to a Greek mother. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Nikoz78 (talk • contribs) 23:30, 14 October 2008 (UTC)

demi moore
is there any surce that says Demi Moore has greek anchestry? Pavlos1988 (talk) 21:36, 5 September 2008 (UTC)


 * Demi Moore is not Greek. She ha stated this many times. Her mother named her after a beauty product. Demi is Nativ American (Cherokee), Welsh, French, and has Jewish heritage. She has embraced this side more over the years. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.0.177.50 (talk) 06:45, 8 March 2011 (UTC)

Image copyright problem with Image:Friendsrachel.jpg
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 * That there is a non-free use rationale on the image's description page for the use in this article.
 * That this article is linked to from the image description page.

This is an automated notice by FairuseBot. For assistance on the image use policy, see Media copyright questions. --10:43, 11 September 2008 (UTC)

Infobox
The infobox images are all over the place, it's disorganized and sloppy. Could somebody fix it? --Kurdo777 (talk) 08:31, 11 June 2009 (UTC)

Horse Heaven
Just a fun fact, but if the numbers are true it must have something to do with the monastery (st john's greek orthodox nunnary). —Preceding unsigned comment added by 174.6.154.89 (talk) 07:42, 22 March 2010 (UTC)

No 3 Million Greeks in the US
The 1980 US Census showed 959.856 Greeks.The 1990 US Census 1.110.292 Greeks and the 2000 US Census showed 1.153.295 Greeks (See:Euro Americans) How can the US state Department claim 3 million Greeks? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Siras (talk • contribs) 05:17, 26 October 2010 (UTC)

Glaring Omission of John Brademas
The Hon. John Brademas (D-IN) served in Congress for 22 years (1958 to 1981). He was first Greek American elected to Congress and was the Majority Whip (3rd most important member of Congress behind Speaker and Majority Leader) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.250.187.206 (talk) 13:02, 21 August 2011 (UTC)

Constantinos Patrides
The DYK nomination for C. A. Patrides needs to be reviewed.
 * Did you know
 * ... that Constantinos A. Patrides, the author of Milton and the Christian tradition, earned a medal for heroism for his boyhood service with the Greek Resistance against the German Occupation?

Thanks! Kiefer .Wolfowitz 17:30, 19 November 2011 (UTC)

Any famous greek americans born in Macedonia in 1800s ans first part of 1900s?
Because all famous Greeks from this time are of Crete or Peloponnese origin. Some are even from Istanbul and Lebanon, but none from Macedonia. Could it be that at that time there were no greeks in Macedonia? Because there are plenty of American and Canadian Macedonians, born in part of Macedonia that today is owned by the Republic of Greece. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.28.219.155 (talk) 21:40, 30 July 2013 (UTC)

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