Talk:Grey's Anatomy season 17

Moving table header to screen reader only
I recently made an edit to hide the episode table's caption using , which was reverted  for accessibility reasons and because it passed FAC like this. As I understand it, the caption does not need to be visually displayed if it is near a heading with a similar name to the episode table, which is the case here – the caption "Grey's Anatomy season 17 episodes" is essentially a wordier way of repeating the heading "Episodes". This is what the info pages for Template:Screen reader-only and Template:Episode table support. Additionally, even if this is an FA, that doesn't mean it has to remain fixed. If other seasons don't use it – as can clearly be seen at List of Grey's Anatomy episodes – I see no reason to introduce it here as a one-off. Thoughts? RunningTiger123 (talk) 21:22, 21 January 2022 (UTC)


 * I may have misunderstood it, and if so then it can be removed. Template:Screen reader-only says in its documentation:
 * The main usage case is when a table is placed immediately below a heading, where the heading is effectively identical to the table's caption. This template may be used to hide the caption from a sighted reader (as it would be duplicative), while allowing a screen reader to hear the caption – for example, if the screen reader reads a list of tables in the article to allow navigation directly to a particular table.
 * If the table is moved to another location away from the heading, then this template should be removed to allow sighted readers to see the table caption. This is a requirement of WCAG 1.3.1.
 * Because this table does not exist directly below the heading, it was my understanding that the template should not be used. If it is just a misunderstanding and it needs removed, removing from the template should be done instead of using  . Thanks,  The Doctor Who  (talk) 21:40, 21 January 2022 (UTC)
 * I've always understood it that if the heading is near the caption (but not necessarily right next to it), the caption can be hidden – but maybe I've been misinterpreting it. I've pinged a user who frequently provides accessibility reviews at WP:FLC for clarification. RunningTiger123 (talk) 21:58, 21 January 2022 (UTC)
 * That's me! My understanding is that it's fine to use sronly when it's near a heading but not directly adjacent to the heading, because the caption is still there for screen reader software and doing what it's needed to do; that said, the documentation seems pretty explicit that it needs to be directly adjacent (presumably because it's providing some benefit to a group of users that are using visual browsers). In general on Wikipedia, the people advocating for compliance with accessibility principles seem to go by the guideline that "something is better than nothing", and so don't spend time trying to force perfect compliance when there's so many tables/templates that aren't parseable at all. As a result, it seems that what we let slide at FLC isn't exactly what the documentation asks for. So, tl;dr, you "should" have the caption visible, but it's not a big deal either way. -- Pres N  22:08, 21 January 2022 (UTC)
 * Fair enough, let's leave it be. RunningTiger123 (talk) 02:10, 22 January 2022 (UTC)