Talk:Hamburger/Archive 3

Removal of Delmonico's
"Others have written the first hamburger - specifically hamburger steak - was served in 1834 at Delmonico's Restaurant, New York City, for $.10. However, this oft-quoted origin is not based on the original Delmonico menu but rather a facsimile, and it can be demonstrated through careful scholarship that the published facsimile could not be correct, because the printer of the purported original menu was not in business in 1834!"

Source: http://whatscookingamerica.net/History/HamburgerHistory.htm — Preceding unsigned comment added by Twillisjr (talk • contribs) 15:22, 18 December 2011 (UTC)

I was initially confused by the wording of this section in the article. Could we change it to "was not in business until after 1934", as certainly a printer can make menus, then go out of business. Of course, if this section is dropped, this change obviously isn't necessary, but I think keeping it will at least prevent others from attempting to add this info later. Sheriffjt (talk) 20:01, 24 June 2012 (UTC)

Edit request from Roodvuur, 4 December 2011
Under "variations", there is a subsection about Mexico. However, Mexico is also noted under "other country's", with roughly the same information. It would be better to merge this information.

Edit request from Bangoker, 17 December 2010
I am from México, I've been to several places, and I've never seen a hamburger served with ham, I think that statement should be removed.

Bangoker (talk) 18:34, 17 December 2010 (UTC)
 * ❌ - I've actually found several references to serving ham on a hamburger in Mexico, so I'll add the reference to the article. --Funandtrvl (talk) 19:59, 18 December 2010 (UTC)

edit request from blackraven1425, 10 Feb 2010
edit semi-protected There's a place where text is doubled. This paragraph appears at the end of the "Hamburgers today" section, then again just under the next heading "Variations", word for word:

"In the 1930s ground liver was sometimes added to the patties. Some cooks prepare their patties with binders, such as eggs or bread crumbs. Seasonings are also commonly included with the hamburger patty, most commonly salt and pepper, and others such as parsley, onions, soy sauce, Thousand Island dressing, onion soup mix, or Worcestershire sauce. Many name brand seasoned salt products are also used."

One or the other should be removed as redundant. — Preceding unsigned comment added by blackraven1425 (talk • contribs)
 * Yes check.svg Done Although you could have done so yourself. -Atmoz (talk) 16:27, 10 February 2011 (UTC)

Saturated fat and salt etc
Shouldn't the health section include mention of the saturated fat and salt content? 92.28.246.36 (talk) 00:45, 25 February 2011 (UTC)
 * That is subjective because depending on the cut of meat, the way the burger is prepared and cooked can differ greatly. Making a blanket statement about them would be hard, if not impossible. --Jeremy (blah blah • I did it!) 06:22, 25 February 2011 (UTC)

I'm very skeptical of that. Even the best prepared would have significant saturated fat in it; the average hamburger is likely to have more. Its a mistake to delude oneself. 92.29.115.47 (talk) 15:05, 25 February 2011 (UTC)
 * I am not deluding myself, different cuts of meat have different levels of saturated fats due to the amount of fat in the meat. In the United States commercially prepared ground beef can have a fat content anywhere from 5% to 25%. Additionally, many restaurants utilize a custom blend that is designed specifically for their exclusive use that will have different levels of seasonings that will change the levels of salt.


 * Also the type of diet fed to cattle will also change these numbers, grass fed cattle will produce beef with different levels of saturated fats than corn or wheat fed cattle. The same goes for the breed of cattle the beef that is used, with Angus cattle being different from Texas longhorn cattle, again producing beef with different levels of fat and salt. Finally, the meat type used will again change the levels of fats and salt, beef is different from bison meat which is different from chicken which is different from turkey, all of which are used to make burgers.


 * Finally, please read up on the civility guidelines before posting again, it is considered bad form to insult other contributors. --Jeremy (blah blah • I did it!) 17:14, 25 February 2011 (UTC)

International terminology
This sentence could use some work:

The term hamburger or burger can also be applied to the meat patty on its own, especially in the UK where the term "patty" is never used, although the term "hamburger" is rarely used in the Commonwealth countries unless referring to a menu item of an American restaurant.

Begging the question, what does the UK call the meat in that case?

Canadian usage:

We say "patty", the meat before you cook it. Fresh or frozen. The term "patty" went into Canadian law in the 1980s after Jamaicans starting selling their "patties"/empanadas here.

After it's cooked, you can put it on a bun, making a sandwich called a "(ham)burger". But you can put it in the fridge and eat it cold later. That is also a "hamburger".

I suspect US usage is like Canadian. Canada of course is Commonwealth.

When I lived in Australia, I didn't notice anything special about their terminology, when, every day, you would be noticing an Aussie usage differing from North American. I got food poisoning from hamburger in Australia, a memory I shall cherish forever.

Varlaam (talk) 19:08, 9 July 2011 (UTC)


 * It's called "Burger" or "Beef Burger", "Pork Burger" etc. 86.150.193.124 (talk) 17:10, 17 July 2011 (UTC)

Your question is answered in the sentance itself: "The term hamburger or burger can also be applied to the meat patty on its own, especially in the UK". The meat, in any stage of preperation, is called a burger. The distinction between raw meat and a complete ready to eat burger with bread is based on context. For example if you say you're going to buy burgers for a BBQ the assumption is that you mean raw meat patties. If you order a burger in a pub you assume you'll get a cooked patty in a bun, probably with condiments and some type of salad. 109.145.208.77 (talk) 09:36, 17 February 2012 (UTC)

History
As far as I can tell it there was no "burger" or "hamburger" in Hamburg before McDonalds opened their fastfood restaurants in this city (about 1975). Likewise "wiener" wouldn't be called by that name in Vienna, using the name of a city in recipes typically happens elsewhere. The names "frikadelle", "frikandelle", or "bulette" are tagged with ; it should be possible to find references, e.g., check out Frikadelle. Also see Hamburger pointing straight to the US for two conflicting (but at least least plausible) theories about the origins of this name. –82.113.99.166 (talk) 14:40, 23 July 2011 (UTC) (from Hamburg, unsurprisingly)

Edit request from Roodvuur, 4 December 2011
Under "variations", there is a subsection about Mexico. However, Mexico is also noted under "other country's", with roughly the same information. It would be better to merge this information.

Roodvuur (talk) 19:37, 4 December 2011 (UTC)