Talk:Handball/Archive 1

improvement
Sorry about the poor quality of this entry, but trust me, its better than what was here before ;-) --Anders Törlind

more than one type of handball
I suspect that there is more than one type of handball. For instance, there was a game played by French monks colled "jeu de paume" (supposed to translate "game of the palm (of the hand)", my French is rusty) that was played in a similar fasion to racketball and is believed to be a predecessor of modern tennis. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 165.123.179.xxx (talk • contribs) 20:30, 8 September 2001


 * Ah, the text i wrote only pertains to the olympic sport. Please add entries for other sports called handball, if you have any info! --Anders Törlind (03:42, 4 February 2002)

That's right, there's more than one type of handball. The Olympic sport is usually referred to as 'Team handball', while there's another sport which involves single players. I believe the sport is somewhat similar to many racket games -- Jheijmans —Preceding unsigned comment added by Jeronimo (talk • contribs) 17:43, 25 February 2002

I second that. I know of two other forms of handball which are not variations of the olympic sport. One similar to Squash except without the racquet. The other is played in school yards throughout Australia on grid of either 2 or 4 squares painted on concrete or bitumen. Sort of like a scaled down version of tennis with no racquets. You use a tennis ball and the ball must bounce in your square once on it's return to your oponent's square. Each of the four squares represent a ranking of King, Queen, Jack and Dunce. When someone is beaten, s/he is sent to dunce and all player s/he outranked move up a rank. The goal is to stay in King. If more than 4 players are present, only a 'King' is sent to dunce. Any other players would be sent off the court and a reserve player will start in dunce.

I can provide detailed info on the latter but not the former. However, I have no idea of the origins of the game. Only the rules.

A quick google reveals there are 2 types of the squash-like game. 1 wall and 4 wall handball!

—Preceding unsigned comment added by 62.254.168.102 (talk • contribs) 11:45, 1 June 2005


 * Please feel free to contribute to the articles linked from handball (disambiguation). --Joy &#91;shallot&#93;

single center player
I see no reason not to compare the single center player in the handball attacking formation to the single center player in the water polo attacking formation. Both players tend to be isolated among the defenders, try to disrupt the defence, and provide an opportunity to be passed the ball and score more easily from the place closest to the goal. --Shallot 15:20, 1 Apr 2004 (UTC)


 * Some confusion may have risen from my use of the term anchor for that water polo position. The Wikipedia article on water polo calls it the hole set, which seems to be the more popular English term. --Shallot

Team handball a Danish game
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia in Danish.

Håndbold er en sportsgren som blev opfundet af den danske gymnastik- og livredningspioner Holger Nielsen. Han indførte spillet på Ordrup Gymnasium i 1898 og udgav den første instruktionsbog i spillet i 1906.

In short: Team Handball was invented by the Danish gymnastics and lifeguard- pioneer Holger Nielsen in 1898. He published a manual in 1906.


 * I've correlated this with other sources and wrote something about it in the article, it should be better now. --Joy &#91;shallot&#93;   00:29, 4 Feb 2005 (UTC)

comment
I am proposing that this page should not be the automatic result of a search for handball, as there are many equally significant things the term may refer to. For example handball and gaelic handball played on raquetball style courts, the handball in soccer etc. perhaps it would be wisest if the search "handball" was directed to the disambiguation page and the searchee could direct themselves from there?
 * Handball is an 'olympic' sport, known almost solely under the word handball. A handball in soccer is most often called 'hands'. I think this article should be the primary choice and propose a move back.

sumodivebomb 27/03/07

title
I think the title should be simply "handball" and a notification could appear on the side saying "this article is about team hadndball/about the olympic sport. for other uses see..."

Rules
I searched and cannot find any links to handball rules. Is there a seperate wiki entry, or any external links that will take me to team handball rules? --User:Coffee and TV (20 February 2006)

I found a link listing Handball team rules. The link is given below and seems fairly reliable. I play handball and have found that the rules I have played with have varied slightly from location to location. However the basics have been the same in all occasions.

http://usadth.tripod.com/rules.html

Rintaminator (talk) 05:26, 8 January 2010 (UTC)

Expulsion
If a player assaults a referee, an opponent or any other person, the referee can expel the player forming a cross over his head with his arms, which will tell the player that he/she will have to leave the game completely and his team will have to play a man down for the remainder of the game. This expulsion is the most severe penalty possible in handball.

Somebody please give me a source for this. I have never seen it in a game, and I have seen extremely unsportsmanslike play "only" sanctioned with a red card. I think that this is not true. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.142.122.82 (talk) 17:48, 3 December 2009 (UTC)

Here: http://www.ihf.info/upload/PDF-Download/rules_english.pdf Zé da Silva 18:50, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

guys, just try it on this link... www.ihf.info it is the webpage of the International Handball federation and it will tell you everything you just want to know about handball. I am playing handball by myself and it is an awesome sport. Just read a little bit about it and you will see that it has few similarities to other sports you know but it is way faster and exciting. HAndball is recognized as the fastest indoor sport ever.

If you can't take the ball out of the oppositions' hands, is the only way to get possession of the ball through intercept of a bad pass?

Does anyone know how the game has changed over the years? What rule, regulation, equipment, uniform, strategy changes have been made? And possibly why?

—Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.208.81.119 (talk) 03:21, 14 October 2005


 * Well, it seems this is going to be a rather late reply.
 * The most common ways to get the ball are (someone correct me if I forgot something):
 * An attacking player missing the goal
 * or he scores. This is the most unsatisfying way of getting the ball
 * An attacking player hitting the opponents goalkeeper ( = the goalie making a save, if you're on his side =) who deflects the ball out of bounds over the goal line. Quote from the rules: A throw-in is awarded when the ball has completely crossed the side line, or when a court player on the defending team was the last one to touch the ball before it crossed his team’s outer goal line.
 * or the goalkeeper/the frame of the goal deflects the ball back onto the field and a defending player picks it up
 * An intercepted pass
 * A pass that goes out of bounds
 * Hitting the ball while the opponent is dribbling.
 * A penalty
 * 82.135.74.153 09:46, 29 January 2007 (UTC)


 * Seems to cover most of them, but you forgot one: The referee can also call for passive play. There has to be a warning first, though; the referee puts up a hand to signal a passive warning (ie. that the attacking team must attempt a shot soon).
 * -Sesse (talk) 16:34, 16 December 2007 (UTC)

Possible history section confusion
The article says:


 * "The first international games were played under these rules, between Germany and Belgium for men in 1925 and Germany and Austria for women in 1930."

while the German article says:


 * "Das erste Handball-Länderspiel fand am 13. September 1925 in Halle an der Saale zwischen Deutschland und Österreich statt." (translation: "The first international handball game took place on 13 September 1925 in Halle an der Saale between Germany and Austria.")

So, was the first international game between Germany and Austria or between Germany and Belgium, was it men or women, and in which year? (The German article doesn't reveal the gender of the players.)

- Kaare 21:44, 9 December 2005 (UTC)

More Improvement
I think that the article goes on for too long about penalties and red and yellow cards. I think while these are valuable points, they should come later in the article. Does anyone agree? - Tentacle (13 May 2006)

'''Actually, the current version of handball (w/7 players) before the Ist World War was primarily played in Poland in 1917. A Polish soldier picked it up from his foreign inmates while being interned and then implemented the modified version (by himself) in his country. Considering the fact that most of you people don't even know where Poland is... ;) - Natalie'''

disambiguation
acck. The opening line about handball redirecting here is wrong (it doesn't, you go to the disambiguation page), and the handball (disambiguation) Page goes to the handball page. I'm cleaning up the disambiguation links that should come here (or wherever), but don't want to mess with this article as I'm unsure on the decision about redirection. My thoughts would be to remove the opening line of this article, delete the handball page, or have it redirect to handball (disambiguation) so it is a nice neat disambiguation place to be. I have 300 odd links to correct yet, so it will be some time before this needs to be done. Any thoughts?LeeG 17:03, 4 June 2006 (UTC)


 * The opening line became wrong after someone moved it and forgot to adjust it. I moved it back. Please feel free to correct only links that point to a non-team-handball, that should be much less work. --Joy &#91;shallot] 20:32, 4 June 2006 (UTC)


 * Thanks, sadly there is quite a mixture of links and it is not obvious which type of handball they all refer to. Many (but not all) American articles refer to American handball, for example.  I'm quite happy and out of trouble sorting it out for the moment!LeeG 20:53, 4 June 2006 (UTC)

Requested move

 * The following discussion is an archived discussion of the . Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section. 

It was requested that this article be renamed but there was no consensus for it be moved. --Stemonitis 11:22, 12 June 2007 (UTC)

-

Since team handball is a) olympic, and therefore the 'rightfull owner' of this name b) solely known as handball in championships and by persons practicing it. it is the primary 'handball' topic and its title should therefore be renamed to handball instead of being an option in disambiguation or a redirect (also important for an upcoming sports infobox, see volleyball for example.)) -Catneven 20:36, 31 May 2007 (UTC)


 * Oppose. "American handball" is also known as handball by everyone who plays it.  "Team handball" is by far the more popular game worldwide, but I don't think a disambiguation page is a big problem. Rracecarr 23:06, 10 June 2007 (UTC)


 * support. "Team handball would not even be recognized by the ones playing the game. Hence a immediate link should be there. Secondly, the use of olympic names should become standard practice. A proposal for this in also underway.-Catneven 10:25, 11 June 2007 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the . Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Bordenball
There should be a section or article on bordenball, a variation on handball popular in schools. A smaller court and hockey nets are used.LK 22:06, 20 September 2007 (UTC)

How we play team handball or as it is called, Borden ball.
I am a student from fairfax and at our school we play a game called team handball. But when we play, weplay more like the way it was described as borden ball. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 151.188.105.205 (talk) 19:15, 11 December 2007 (UTC)

handball is fast swtiching and requires energy
It can be played by men or women

How to form a team?
How many players? Not very popular. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 130.88.109.239 (talk) 14:45, 14 April 2008 (UTC)

Suggestion
Hello Handball fans and afficianados.

This page needs help. Some of the rule language is confusing. It's not a good complete description. There's no mention of any professional leagues. Are there any? There's no listing of champions for international or professional competitions. If you are a fan, help this page. The sport looks interesting but this page isn't!

Tapered (talk) 02:14, 12 August 2008 (UTC)

Also, there could be some description of the equipment, more specifically the ball they use.Bradenkeith (talk) 17:21, 17 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Over the last couple of days I reworked most parts of the article. The rules are now more or less completely covered and some information about strategy was added. For the most part, I took the German article as template, flavored with information from the (very nice) official rule booklet. However, I'm neither a native English speaker nor an active handball player, so I'm not sure about some translations. This is especially true in the strategy part, where no official material is available. So please check, if
 * the names of the throwing techniques (especially "standing throw" is only a crutch [German: Stemmwurf/Kernwurf/Schlagwurf])
 * the names of the positions
 * first wave, second wave, third wave (direct translation)
 * are correct. --86.103.210.205 (talk) 12:42, 18 October 2008 (UTC)

'Goal' or 'NO-goal'
—Preceding unsigned comment added by 123.215.100.153 (talk) 17:17, 21 August 2008 (UTC) hola soi bkn —Preceding unsigned comment added by 201.238.193.211 (talk) 15:57, 28 August 2009 (UTC)

Citation Found: Please Help
I've added a citation for the inclusion of handball in the 1936 Berlin Olympics by Hitler:

http://www.cbc.ca/olympics/handball/story/2008/05/12/f-olympics-handball-history.html

There are numerous others, but this seems to be the most renowned possible source without digging into some library books.

I'm still new to editing Wikipedia pages, so if the citation needs to be cleaned up at all, any help would be appreciated.

Also, would this not now change the banner at the top of the article that says that this article has/uses "no citations or reference?" Since there is at least one source cited now, I changed the banner from "no" citations or sources to "needs sources or references." That seems more appropriate according to the Wikipedia guidelines. --Douglass Moore (talk) 19:14, 21 August 2008 (UTC)

a "kill"?
"If a player kills a referee, an opponent or any other person accidently or deliberately, the referee can expel the player forming a cross over his head with his arms, which will tell the player that he/she will have to leave the game completely and his team will have to play a man down for the remainder of the game. This expulsion is the most severe penalty possible in handball."

I find this weird, if not false. I'm going to remove it unless somebody would like to expand what a "kill" is...-Violask81976 17:38, 22 August 2008 (UTC)

I too just noticed the paragraph which starts with 'If a player kills a referee..." I agree that unless there is a meaning of 'kill' that is particular to handball, this sentence is unintentionally humorous. If there is a meaning particular to handabll, this should be explained.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Deedeebee (talk • contribs) 18:05, 22 August 2008 (UTC)

Dubious Facts
Hi, I do not know anything about handball and was in fact reading about this sport for the very first time today, but some of the claims written in this article are highly dubious. -"The modern game is most popular in Europe, where it is the second most played sport after football (soccer)" I find this hard to believe. This sport is played more than golf, basketball, rugby or tennis? I would like to see this backed up by fact. -"The only country in Europe where it is not professionally played is the United Kingdom." This is blatantly not true. I live in Ireland and there is no professional set up for this sport here. As I stated I first heard of this sport yesterday. I would also find it hard to believe that countries such as Iceland, the Faroe Islands, Moldova, Georgia have professional hand ball leagues. Maybe I am wrong (and generalising) and would love to be disproved but I find it hard to believe Malta or Cyprus have professional leagues. Therefore not only is this statement incorrect due to the fact that I have shown there it is not professionally played in one other country in Europe (Ireland). I find it highly unlikely this is a proessional sport in others. In fact the wikipedia list of professional sports league (shown below) only lists three professional sports leagues for handball- France, Germany and Spain.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_professional_sports_leagues —Preceding unsigned comment added by Limericksham (talk • contribs) 10:54, 26 January 2009 (UTC)

---
 * I have removed the cited statements as they are unsourced and indeed hard to believe. I don't see why we kept them for so long anyway. --Aikurn (talk) 14:12, 26 January 2009 (UTC)

---

@Limericksham

1. - I know that it's hard for you to believe (because you first heard of this sport yesterday) that countries such as Iceland...have professional handball leagues, but they do have. In fact, Iceland national handball team was Olympic silver medalist of 2008 Beijing, 8th of World Championship 2007,  7th of European Championship 2006.

France vs. Iceland - Handball Final of Olympic Games Beijing 2008

2. - Also, Cyprus do have professional handball league. Gaston28 (talk) 01:15, 1 February 2009 (UTC)

---

I know that the reply above wasn't meant for me, but I'd like to add some words. It's true that handball is much more popular in Europe than some would think. Countries with professional leagues that come to my mind, in no particular order: Denmark, Norway, Hungary, Romania, France, Spain, Portugal, Germany, Russia, Sweden, Austria, Iceland, Macedonia, Croatia, Serbia, Montenegro, Poland... It would be great if we could find sources for this kind of information because we can't add it based only on a "it's true because I know it". I'll try to work on this article if I find time. Aikurn (talk) 22:27, 1 February 2009 (UTC)

--- —Preceding unsigned comment added by 194.202.236.116 (talk) 14:14, 4 February 2009 (UTC)

Gaston28- I see nothing to suggest that these countries (Iceland as the example you provided) have professional leagues. Professional, as in a league where teams PAY their players. Nothing you have provided suggests this. You are saying that Iceland has a professional (paid) league based on the fact that they did well in some tournaments. "In fact, Iceland national handball team was Olympic silver medalist of 2008 Beijing, 8th of World Championship 2007,  7th of European Championship 2006." Ok- Iceland has a good team but do they have a professional league consisting of numerous teams with squads who get paid to play?? This would consitute a professional league. This is not answered here.

Also I see nothing to suggest the Cyrpus has a fully professional league from their website- could you please point me in the right direction? Considering the Cypriot football league is semi-professional and it's national team has many part-timers I find it highly unlikely that they have a fully professional league in handball- but would love to be convinced otherwise.

Some of these international teams may have professional players playing professionally in other bigger leagues but I am highly skeptical that they have fully professional leagues themselves. 194.202.236.116 (talk) 14:10, 4 February 2009 (UTC) Oh ya- I wrote this by the way- forgot to sign in! Limericksham (talk) 14:23, 4 February 2009 (UTC)

Asking for sources in "International bodies"
Hi,

I just reverted an edit thinking that was vandalism, but I realized that the whole section "International bodies" has no one single source. I honestly would like to understand more about this section, so I have added a few request for sources in sentences that I think they needed. It is not my intention to delete any portion in this section, I am simply challenging the content. Can the experts in the game please add some sources?

Thanks, Miguel.mateo (talk) 02:30, 2 February 2009 (UTC)


 * I've added some sources and removed the fact tags. Feel free to restore them if you think it's not enough. Also, what would make the section clearer for you? As a handball fan I may take certain information for granted so I'd appreciate your feedback on what needs to be expanded. Aikurn (talk) 10:16, 2 February 2009 (UTC)


 * Aikurn, you have done a great job, thanks a lot. I have a lot to read based on your comments, I appreciate that. Best regards, Miguel.mateo (talk) 10:52, 2 February 2009 (UTC)

Deleted content
There used to be a lot more information in this article which seems to have been deleted without any profound reason, see e.g. this version. Are there any objections against reinstating this content? --86.103.232.99 (talk) 13:29, 4 April 2009 (UTC)
 * No objections as long as the current "valuable" content is preserved, of course. I've looked at the page's history and it seems that the entire Basics section was lost as a result of vandalism on 2 November 2008 (wrong edit). Aikurn (talk) 15:01, 4 April 2009 (UTC)

American Handball vs. Gaelic Handball
Clarification is needed. On this article, it says "American handball and Gaelic handball are completely different sports", but on the Gaelic Handball article it says that Gaelic Handball " is a sport similar to (...) American handball (an almost identical game)".

Please rectify. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.1.75.31 (talk) 07:52, 1 September 2010 (UTC)


 * I think the problem here is that American (non-team) handball is very similar to Gaelic handball, but Team handball is a completely different animal. עבד יהוה talk 05:09, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

Unreferenced BLPs
Throughout 2010, many Wikipedia editors have worked hard to halve the number of unreferenced biographical articles (UBLPs) from more than 52,000 in January to under 26,000 now. The WikiProject Unreferenced Biographies of Living Persons has assisted in many ways, including helping to setup a bot, which runs daily, compiling lists of all articles that are in both Category:All unreferenced BLPs and have been tagged by a WikiProject or are in a particular category. Note that the bot does NOT place unreferenced tags or assign articles to projects - this has been done by others previously - it just compiles a list.

Whilst you don't have a WikiProject Handball (yet), a list of Handball players can be found at WikiProject Sports/Handball unreferenced BLPs. Currently you have approximately 83 articles to be referenced. Other project lists can be found at WikiProject Unreferenced Biographies of Living Persons/WikiProjects.

Your assistance in reviewing and referencing these articles is greatly appreciated. We've done a lot, but we still have a long way to go. If you have any questions, please don't hestitate to ask either at WT:URBLP or at my talk page. Thanks, The-Pope (talk) 13:02, 7 September 2010 (UTC)"