Talk:Hanoverian horse

Links for the ambitious
Anyone wishing to improve this article may find these links helpful:

1. WBFSH Interstallion survey. Data on populations, goals, procedures.

2. WBFSH 2007 Jumping rankings. #3 thanks to Shutterfly (Silvio I) - note he was the top-ranked Grand Prix jumper of the year - Lantinus (Landkoenig), Checkmate (Contender), Goldfever (Grosso Z), Enorm (Escudo I), Legurio (Landadel)

3. WBFSH 2007 Eventing rankings. #3 thanks to FRH Butts Abraxxas (Heraldik xx), FRH Little Lemon (Lemon xx), Air Jordan (Amerigo Vespucci xx), Schorsch (Sherlock Holmes xx), Dictus J (Drossan), FRH Serve Well (Sherlock Holmes xx)

4. WBFSH 2007 Dressage rankings. #1 thanks to #1 ranked horse Satchmo (Sao Paulo), Salinero (Salieri), Warum Nicht FRH (Weltmeyer), Sunrise (Singular Joter), Elvis VA (Espri), Donatha S (Donnerhall)

5. American Hanoverian Society.

6. Hanoverian Verband. Good source.

7. British Hanoverian Society. Good source, English translation of general German Warmblood standards - though tweaked to fit the Hanoverian - under "Breeding Rules" plus baldly states that other than solid black, bay, chestnut, grey are not permitted.

8. IMH page. Secondary source but an easy read.

Countercanter (talk) 01:39, 21 January 2008 (UTC)


 * Another useful article: H. Hamann, O. Distl. Genetic variability in Hanoverian warmblood horses using pedigree analysis. J. Anim Sci., doi: 10.2527/jas.2007-0382. Copyright, 2008, The American Society of Animal Science. Countercanter (talk) 13:39, 31 August 2009 (UTC)

Edits?
Hey CC, wondering why you tossed this image: File:Hannoveraner Dressur Goethe 3 bestes.jpg and especially why replaced with a group photo? FYI, the wikigods prefer these breed articles to have an image of one typical individual, (and in a perfect world, one facing "into" the article, but that's somewhat negotiable). My thinking is to keep the old image as the lead (unless you can find a good conformation shot, which would be even better) and move down the Olympic one to replace the image that's there of the horse that is clearly wringing its tail... just a notion. Montanabw (talk) 01:23, 17 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Sure thing. I don't care about tail-wringing myself but I understand that some people do. :) There are some conformation shots in Wikimedia Category:Hannoverian but they make the fellow's head look a bit large. Countercanter (talk) 02:41, 17 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Well, tail-wringing beats numbing the tail (the big problem in the breed show world in some places...). But here the bigger deal is to find the nicest representatives of the breed.  I agree that mule head photos are not desirable.   Montanabw (talk) 02:59, 20 September 2009 (UTC)

Gallery
While I imagine that the focus is on the changes in costume, and the horses are far too light-framed, they are illustrative. Countercanter (talk) 20:39, 25 September 2009 (UTC)


 * Are the horses actually "Hanoverians" or are they simply cavalry horses of the Hanoverian military? All predate the stud book. Cool images, though.  One could use them saying something along the lines of how the breeds were developed for cavalry use.  I know from the research we were doing for Horses in warfare and Arabian horse and Marbach stud that 18th century cavalry tended to be smaller and lighter, lots of Arabian blood, then the horses were bred up to be a bit bigger as time went on and we get into the 19th century.  May want to cross-read on the warfare article for ideas... drop a note on the talk page of User:Gwinva, she's our military history liaison with horse cavalry stuff.  See also Horses in the Napoleonic Wars.   Montanabw (talk) 21:26, 25 September 2009 (UTC)


 * Thank you for recommending those articles. I can't believe I hadn't thoroughly read them before, but they were SO informative and interesting. As far as the identity of a Hannoverian cavalry rider's mount...the stud was established in 1735, as you know, and pedigrees were kept by about 1800. The purpose of the stud was to make - I hate to say "better" because what I really mean is "suitable to the times" or "fashionable" - stallions available to the farmers. Cavalry horses were directly recruited from the farmers, much the same way that the US military has contracts with certain industries. Thus, a man in the Hannoverian cavalry would have most likely been riding a horse sired by a Celle stallion (Celle eventually passed laws to limit the use of privately-owned stallions). Is such a horse not a Hanoverian? I don't suppose I need to caption any of those drawings with "...on his Hanoverian" but, there you have it. Countercanter (talk) 14:53, 26 September 2009 (UTC)


 * "Better" as in "horses more suitable to the times" works for me. The best way to handle the old images is to describe them as close to the intent of the published source as possible, i.e. "Hanoverian cavalry officer" or whatever... neither extrapolate beyond what can be derived from the original source, nor assume less... all I really know is that modern breeds as we think of them today were more loosely defined back then, as someone (maybe you?) once pointed out, a horse foaled at a stud in Hannover might be "Hannoverian" even if 100% Thoroughbred or something!  They are wonderful images.   Montanabw (talk) 03:35, 27 September 2009 (UTC)

Thoughts
Overall, the article is a little too wordy. Think through how you can use wikilinks to reduce some explanations, and you may not need to have as many details on individual horses or specific geographic locations. It's your call. I think this article could make a trip to GA in time, as you have a lot of good research material to use. I'm minimizing my input for now to let you decide how to sort it out, but am doing one rearrangement of headings that I think organizes the section a bit better. Hope it helps. Montanabw (talk) 21:39, 25 September 2009 (UTC)
 * I completely agree, and thanks for your temperance. It's totally wordy and pretentious, but I do find it easier to trim down an "end product" than to actually incorporate it into my drafting. I promise I won't let it lay around like a bloated I-don't-know-what. Countercanter (talk) 00:21, 26 September 2009 (UTC)