Talk:Hanseatic League/Archive 3

Other cities with a Hansa community
Hello,

this listing seems to include both members of the Hanseatic League and towns merely connected economically.Sarcelles (talk) 20:34, 23 January 2018 (UTC)
 * The List of former Hanseatic cities only should include verified Hanseatic cities.Sarcelles (talk) 14:44, 4 February 2018 (UTC)

The reference named "Miruß" in the article lists the following cities not included within the list Hansa proper in this article: Andernach

Aschersleben

Bergen

Bielefeld

Bolsward

Brandenburg an der Havel

Braniewo (Braunsberg)

Buxtehude

Chełmno (Kulm)

Coesfeld

Duisburg

Einbeck

Elburg

Emmerich

Gardelegen

Goleniów (Gollnow)

Göttingen

Halberstadt

Hameln

Hamm

Hanover

Harderwijk

Herford

Hildesheim

Kalmar

Kiel

Lemgo

Lixheim

Lüneburg

Minden

Nijmegen

Northeim

Osterburg

Paderborn

Quedlinburg

Roermond

Rostock

Salzwedel

Seehausen

Stargard

Stavoren

Stendal

Uelzen

Unna

Venlo

Visby

Warberg in Sweden ?

Werben (Elbe)

Wesel

Zwolle

Zutphen

Sarcelles (talk) 16:36, 8 February 2018 (UTC)
 * The reference "Falke" has the following cities not mentioned in the list:

Amsterdam

Arnemuiden

Brandenburg an der Havel

Braniewo

Brielle

Buxtehude

Chełmno

Cölln

Dordrecht

Einbeck

Elburg

Enkhuizen

Gardelegen

Göttingen

Halberstadt

Hameln

Harderwijk

Hasselt

Havelberg

Herford

Hildesheim

Hindeloopen

Höxter

Kyritz

Lemgo

Middelburg

Minden

Nordhausen

Paderborn

Pärnu

Pritzwalk

Salzwedel

Seehausen

Stargard

Stavoren

Stendal

Tangermünde

Utrecht

Vieringen

Werben

Zierikzee

Zutphen

Zwolle

--Sarcelles (talk) 09:21, 9 February 2018 (UTC)
 * Here are the following names not listed until now:

Amsterdam

Arnemuiden

Arnhem

Aschersleben

Bolsward

Braniewo

Brielle

Buxtehude

Chełmno

Dordrecht

Duisburg

Einbeck

Elburg

Enkhuizen

Emden

Göttingen

Halle

Hameln

Harderwijk

Hasselt, Overijssel

Helmstedt

Herford

Hildesheim

Hindeloopen

Kiel

Lemgo

Middelburg

Narva

Northeim

Paderborn

Pärnu

Quedlinburg

Roermond

Salzwedel

Stendal

Stargard

Stavoren

Uelzen

Utrecht

Wesel

Wieringen

Zierikzee

Zutphen

Zwolle


 * I was misleading, many of the last list are on other lists on this paragraph. I forgot Emmerich.Sarcelles (talk) 19:33, 13 February 2018 (UTC)
 * https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=3msrAQAAIAAJ&pg=PA750&lpg=PA750&dq=Briel+hanse&source=bl&ots=1sE5EytwJN&sig=ltKAb9D_wFU_48Px3eLfVwIf5YU&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjCj9zGru_KAhVGRBQKHYaVD-MQ6AEIQjAJ#v=onepage&q=Briel%20hanse&f=false has the following places not on the list Other cities with a Hansa community (excluding incomprehensible names):

Amsterdam

Andernach

Arnemuiden

Arnhem

Aschersleben

Attendorn

Bergen

Bielefeld

Bolsward

Brandenburg

Braniewo

Brielle

Buxtehude

Chełmno

Coesfeld

Doesburg

Doetinchem

Domburg

Dordrecht

Duderstadt

Duisburg

Einbeck

Elburg

Emden

Emmerich

Enkhuizen

Gardelegen

Goleniów

Gorinchem

Göttingen

Groenlo

Halberstadt

Halle

Hameln

Hamm

Hann. Münden

Hanover

Harderwijk

Harlingen

Hasselt, Overijssel

Helmstedt

Hindeloopen

Hildesheim

Kiel

Lemgo

Lippstadt

Lochem

Maasbommel

Merseburg

Middelburg

Naumburg

Nijmegen

Northeim

Osterburg

Osterode

Paderborn

Pärnu

Quedlinburg

Roermond

Salzwedel

Seehausen, Altmark

Sluis

Stargard

Stavoren

Stendal

Uelzen

Unna

Uslar

Utrecht

Venlo

Warburg

Werden

Wesel

Wieringen

Workum

Zaltbommel

Zierikzee

Zutphen

Zwolle

p. 772/773 has a list of places, whose membership in the Hanseatic League is unclear: Amsterdam

Arnemuiden

Aschersleben

Bergen

Berlin

Brandenburg an der Havel

Brielle

Darłowo

Dinant

Domburg

Dordrecht

Duderstadt

Elburg

Emden

Erfurt

Frankfurt an der Oder

Gorzów Wielkopolski

Halberstadt

Halle

Harlingen

Hasselt, Overijssel

Helmstedt

Hindeloopen

Kiel

Lille

Maastricht

Middelburg

Mühlhausen

Nordhausen

Northeim

Salzwedel

Stargard

Stendal

Uelzen

Visby

Wrocław

Wieringen

Zerbst

Zierikzee

Kind regards, −−Sarcelles (talk) 09:30, 21 February 2018 (UTC)
 * https://books.google.de/books?id=nIP23qtTOKoC&pg=PA123&lpg=PA123&dq=Valka+Hanse&source=bl&ots=PQqDL-pbmm&sig=A4nxHH0UbRUcLvvXFCGAQZXCjE8&hl=de&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiyn9_wkLDUAhWNbFAKHYXmABUQ6AEIPjAD#v=onepage&q=Valka%20Hanse&f=false has the follwowing:

Cēsis

Koknese

Kuldīga

Limbaži

Riga

Straupe

Tallinn

Tartu

Valga/Valka

Valmiera

Ventspils

http://european-heritage.org/germany/münster/hanse/chronicle-hanseatic-league-continued has the following: Ahaus

Ahlen

Arnhem

Arnsberg

Aschersleben

Attendorn

Beckum

Berlin

Białogard

Bielefeld

Billerbeck

Bocholt

Bochum

Borghorst

Borken

Bockenem

Brandenburg an der Havel

Braniewo

Breckerfeld

Brilon

Brunswick

Bremen

Cēsis

Chełmno

Cologne

Doesburg

Dorsten

Dortmund

Duisburg

Dülmen

Düsseldorf

Einbeck

Elbląg

Emmerich

Erfurt

Frankfurt an der Oder

Friesoythe

Gardelegen

Gdańsk

Geseke

Goleniów

Goslar

Göttingen

Greifswald

Gronau, Lower Saxony

Groningen

Gryfino

Halberstadt

Halle

Haltern

Hamburg

Hameln

Hamm

Hanover

Harderwijk

Haselünne

Hasselt, Overijssel

Hattem

Havelberg

Herford

Hildesheim

Iserlohn

Kalmar

Kaliningrad

Kamień

Koknese

Korbach

Koszalin

Kraków

Kuldīga

Kyritz

Lemgo

Lennep

Limbaži

Lippstadt

Lübeck

Kamen

Lüneburg

Lünen

Magdeburg

Meppen

Merseburg

Minden

Mühlhausen

Münster

Naumburg

Neuss

Nijmegen

Nordhausen

Northeim

Oldenzaal

Ommen

Osnabrück

Osterode

Pärnu

Perleberg

Pritzwalk

Quedlinburg

Ratingen

Recklinghausen

Rheine

Riga

Roermond

Rostock

Rüthen

Salzwedel

Schwerte

Seehausen, Altmark

Sławno

Soest

Solingen

Stade

Stavoren

Stendal

Stralsund

Szczecin

Tallinn

Tartu

Telgte

Toruń

Uelzen

Unna

Venlo

Ventspils

Viljandi

Visby

Vreden

Warendorf

Werben (Elbe)

Werl

Werne

Wesel

Wipperfürth

Wismar

Wrocław

Zwolle

https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=qiBBAQAAIAAJ&q=Dąbie+hanza&dq=Dąbie+hanza&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiZ9OW8_bbZAhWEaRQKHSV7D34Q6AEIOzAD has the following: Darłowo

Dymin

Goleniów

Gryfia

Gryfice

Kamień

Kołobrzeg

Nakło

Słupsk

Stargard

Strzałów

Szczecin

Trzebiatów

Wolin

Wołogoszcz

It says, that the following were not members Białogard

Dąbie

Gardziec

Gryfino

Koszalin

https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=jT9EDgAAQBAJ&pg=PA64&dq=winterberg+hanse&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwje8f-3_7bZAhUMyKQKHYtxDL0Q6AEIKjAA#v=onepage&q=winterberg%20hanse&f=false has Winterberg.

https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=t-HuCQAAQBAJ&pg=PA68&lpg=PA68&dq=Schmallenberg+Hanse&source=bl&ots=-olxKc6bJa&sig=SKw-99-j1OC7fBD45PW6giPCByM&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiBgJqIgLfZAhVCshQKHbSABIM4ChDoAQhTMAU#v=onepage&q=Schmallenberg%20Hanse&f=false has Schmallenberg.

https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=AskUAAAAIAAJ&pg=PA206&dq=Ommen+Hanze&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwivs6O5gbfZAhVBrCwKHVK4CxIQ6AEIZjAJ#v=onepage&q=Ommen%20Hanze&f=false has the following ones: Almelo

Delden

Diepenheim

Enschede

Goor

Gramsbergen

Hardenberg

Hasselt, Overijssel

Oldenzaal

Ommen

Ootmarsum

Rijssen

https://www.digibron.nl/search/detail/bb3395c27ef83e93b59a0dc57e06d5ab/l-becks-kooplieden-dwongen-vorsten-tot-oorlog-en-vrede has Tiel.

https://www.europese-bibliotheek.nl/en/Books/Schttorf_in_alten_Ansichten/100-129110/Article has Schüttorf.

https://www.lwl.org/westfalen-regional-download/PDF/059n_Hanse.pdf has the follwing on its map, including cases of ’’zugewandter Ort’’, which possibly is not a membership of the Hanseatic League: Ahlen

Sundern-Allendorf

Altena

Arnsberg

Attendorn

Bad Iburg

Balve

Beckum

Belecke

Bergneustadt, possibly confusion with another town

Bielefeld

Hattingen-Blankenstein

Bocholt

Bochum

Bödefeld

Borgentreich

Borgholz

Borken, North Rhine-Westphalia

Brakel

Breckerfeld

Brilon

Coesfeld

Dorsten

Dortmund

Drolshagen

Dülmen

Essen

Eversberg

Freienohl

Fürstenau, Lower Saxony

Geseke

Grevenstein

Sundern-Hachen

Sundern-Hagen

Haltern

Hamm

Hattingen

Warstein-Hirschberg

Hörde

Iserlohn

Kallenhardt

Langscheid

Lemgo

Lippstadt

Lüdenscheid

Lünen

Melle

Menden

Minden

Münster

Neheim

Neuenrade

Olpe

Osnabrück

Peckelsheim

Plettenberg

Quakenbrück

Recklinghausen

Rheine

Rüthen

Schwerte

Soest

Sundern

Telgte

Unna

Vreden

Vörden

Warburg

Warstein

Wattenscheid

Werl

Werne

Wetter (Ruhr)

Warendorf

Westhofen

Wiedenbrück

https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=iea5CwAAQBAJ&pg=PA111&lpg=PA111&dq=Dramburg+Hanse+Dollinger&source=bl&ots=eRg4mx6JKS&sig=XEpGT_5VmJn1PYClRmO1bHMeVDk&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwi-6rLGrbnZAhVECuwKHSAVAooQ6AEIQzAD#v=onepage&q=Dramburg%20Hanse%20Dollinger&f=false. Which of these sources are valid? --Sarcelles (talk) 12:13, 22 February 2018 (UTC)
 * Alfeld, Drawsko Pomorskie and Nieheim are the places hitherto unmentioned on this talk page. See
 * If one follows https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=7S3u4TcbM_gC&pg=PA288&lpg=PA288&dq=appingedam+hanseatic&source=bl&ots=pgklUHjk5u&sig=adQQUDZLYSYkGeUqtzVlQGj8me4&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwja7Yeip_TeAhVCkSwKHYLaD8cQ6AEwCnoECAMQAQ#v=onepage&q=appingedam%20hanseatic&f=false, the Hanseatic League had Appingedam among its members.Sarcelles (talk) 10:00, 27 November 2018 (UTC)

Width of 'Refs' column restricts 'Notes' column
Dear fellow editors, I am leaving the present message out of courtesy to other editors watching this article. For quite some time now, I have been wanting to improve the formatting of the two tables (Hansa Proper and Kontore), where the Refs column is currently very wide and takes a lot of space because it contains a horizontal list of only a few superscript digits for the references, thus causing the Notes column to be much too narrow (especially for Kontore) which, in turn, makes the prose in 'Notes' difficult to read, and the table deeper than it could be if that column were a bit wider, to accommodate more prose in each cell.

Therefore, I have slightly redesigned both tables, and only to ensure that the superscript digits in the Refs column are displayed in a vertical list; this therefore makes the column suitably more narrow, thus enabling the Notes column to be wider, which makes the prose easier to read, and both tables less deep.

The solution was quite simple: in each cell of the Refs column, the list of refs is now embedded in a  template, which will align the superscript digits vertically in the cell; this makes the cell as wide as necessary to contain only one digit and its optional page number(s). (For those interested in the details, feel free to look in my sandbox and its talk page, where I have been ably advised by and .)

I will soon apply the new format to both tables, which will now also include commented guidance (in the editable source) on how to code the contents of the cells in the Refs column.

With kind regards; Patrick. ツ Pdebee.(talk)(become old-fashioned!) 16:06, 15 February 2020 (UTC)
 * ✅ (16:30, 15 February 2020 (UTC))

What is the Other cities with a Hanseatic Community section for?
I first noticed the section when I was looking for Fellin and Pernau in the cities list, as it is widely accepted at least in Estonia that those were Hanseatic cities. I found the cities in the Other cities with a Hanseatic Community and that made me wonder, what differentiates that list from the one a bit above it? JDFRG (talk) 20:16, 2 November 2022 (UTC)

Standard modern German terms
There's a good deal of words in standard modern German in the article's text. I understand that's the result of historiography and lines up with the literature, but I feel at a point it becomes anachronistic and sometimes it's not really needed or even excessive. An example is "Organization". I see the relevance of continuing to use Kontor, Tagfahrt, Hansetag and Einung or even Drittel in the text, but should Ältermann be used multiple times instead of alderman? Maybe it could sometimes also mention the Middle Low German words. JaikeV (talk) 10:59, 23 January 2023 (UTC)

Dutch reference in "Commercial expansion"
[Message text copied here from User talk:Pdebee:]

Hi, I added the Dutch reference to this portion:
 * The league primarily traded beeswax, furs, timber, resin (or tar), flax, honey, wheat, and rye from the east to Flanders and England with cloth, in particular broadcloth, (and, increasingly, manufactured goods) going in the other direction. Metal ore (principally copper and iron) and herring came southwards from Sweden, the Carpathians were another important source of copper and iron, often sold in Thorn. Lubeck also had a vital role in the salt trade, salt was acquired in Lunenburg or shipped from France and Portugal and sold on Central European markets, taken to Scania for salting herring or exported to Russia.

But I feel it's pretty important to say that this chapter doesn't mention all the goods mentioned. It names the ones in bold with the origin, intermediate stop or staple market and destination, and it also mentions grain although that's not specified and it's said that this was a kinda late development. But the other trading goods aren't mentioned so the paragraph isn't fully cited yet. 195.169.52.98 (talk) 10:38, 12 January 2023 (UTC)

Thank you for contacting me, and for expanding that paragraph and adding a source; you did a great job! As you noticed, I converted your citation into a cite book template, because the rest of the article already uses that citation format (when you have a bit of spare time, consider reading WP:CITEVAR, which explains this editorial guideline). While I was applying the template, I also expanded the citation by adding parameters, which I updated by searching for details about the book, using the very useful BookFinder tool, which I use all the time. About the point you made on the paragraph being incomplete: by all means feel free to augment that paragraph to make it as complete as you think it should be. In that case, please make sure you refer to the source; for example, if the text is at different pages in the book, then you need to refer to the page number(s) in each case. At the moment, your citation refers to pages 45–61, which will probably cover the whole subject discussed in that paragraph. But when you need to cite the same book at other pages, you would use the rp template to reflect the different page(s) in each case. I will now change the cite book template for pages 45–61, so that you can see how to do this next time you might need it. If, on the other hand, the missing information is in other sources, then we would create another pair of cite & rp templates for these too, and I can certainly assist you with that task. Good luck, and thank you once again for your contributions to this article! With kind regards; Patrick. ツ Pdebee.(talk)(become old-fashioned!) 12:04, 12 January 2023 (UTC)
 * Hello, 195.169.52.98;


 * Found these sources for the trade goods that still need references, I won't mention referenced goods:
 * Alastair Thomas : they're almost the same and pretty similar to the article's older wording and mentions all the unreferenced goods (timber, resin, tar, flax, honey, wheat and rye), but also similar to this, maybe there's a common source (see one lower) but also check the similarity to this . I don't like that it's about Danish trade and not Hanseatic trade and that the preview is really limited, so this is totally not ideal.
 * John Montgomery : overall pretty good, mentions timber, flax, honey, wheat and rye so resin, tar and manufactured goods aren't covered, the section's about the Hansa and the list of goods has a reference. The order of the list is pretty similar to Thomas, Knox and the old article, so maybe they all relied on Girouard. Another reference is needed for resin and tar.
 * Richard Bressler : mentions honey, flax, hemp, leather and timber as exports of Russia. Again pretty good, it's a section about the league, but doesn't mention a few goods and doesn't have references in footnotes. Doesn't explain if the leather is Russia leather, an important export product later.
 * Brian A. Pavlac, Elizabeth S. Lott : mentions timber, tar, honey and flax, again no references on the page.
 * Ingo Heidbrink : mentions timber, tar, flax, honey, beer, dried cod and "increasingly, manufactured goods like rolls of cloth" with an inline reference.
 * John S. Lee : mentions timber, tar, honey and flax as English imports from Russia and Poland and wool and pewter as exports. There's a reference later but I don't know if it's for the list too. I don't like that its subject is cloth making but at least the section is about Hanseatic trade.
 * Philippe Dollinger : may be promising for resin, but not useful now unless someone finds a real copy because of the limited preview. I guess it contains a lot of detail on imports and exports per region.


 * I think it's overkill to use all these for citations, but Montgomery and Heidbrink get most of the goods sourced. It's also possible to expand the section if that's wanted. 195.169.52.57 (talk) 11:16, 17 January 2023 (UTC)

This is most excellent; thank you for investing the time and effort to produce such a comprehensive list of possible sources. I agree with your conclusion about Montgomery and Heidbrink for the current list of goods, and would definitely support adding these two, whenever you wish to proceed. On the second point you made about expanding the section, please feel free to go ahead with any improvements you deem necessary. I remain available to assist if necessary, as I'll be around this article for a little while longer, having only gone through half of all the ref tags to review and adjust. Many thanks once again for your valued contributions. With kind regards; Patrick. ツ Pdebee.(talk)(become old-fashioned!) 15:56, 17 January 2023 (UTC)
 * Hello again, 195.169.52.57;

Thank you very much for the sources you added with this edit, as discussed above. I hope you won't mind if I adjust them a little bit to my usual format, just for the sake of consistency. Since you seem interested in this topic, please consider adding more content, as it is clear that you can help with improving this important article. You might also consider creating a permanent account, as doing so will enable you to have access to editorial tools, among other benefits that are described in the Welcome template I have just added to the talk page of your IP address. In any case, very many thanks once again for your interest in improving the present article; your helpful assistance is much appreciated. With kind regards; Patrick. ツ Pdebee.(talk)(become old-fashioned!) 14:59, 18 January 2023 (UTC)
 * Hello again, 195.169.52.25;

I use an account now. Could you look if the quotes I added aren't too long? JaikeV (talk) 10:33, 23 January 2023 (UTC)

First of all: congratulations on creating your own account! I have just posted another Welcome template on your new talk page, just to celebrate your new status! Well done also on expanding the prose and adding the sources with extensive quotes, which are fine. I took the liberty of using the 'translate' parameters to translate both the chapter titles and the quotes themselves. Since the quotes are the only difference between current refs #51 and #52, it might be useful to consider creating footnotes for these, and then combine the source under the same name. I will work on these later today and then review the outcome with you. More later, then. With kindest regards; Patrick. ツ Pdebee.(talk)(become old-fashioned!) 13:12, 23 January 2023 (UTC)
 * Hi ,

I have now relocated the two long quotes into the new Explanatory footnotes section, which enabled me to remove the duplicated citation template for 'Wubs-Mrozewicz, Justyna (2010)'. For completeness and consistency, I also added the other long quote for 'Brand, Hanno (2010)' into that section and removed the 'quote=' parameters from the latter's cite book template as well. It now looks OK to me, but please confirm that you are happy with what I have done; if you are, then we can continue with this approach for future long quotes, if any. Thank you once again for your contributions to this article! With kind regards; Patrick. ツ Pdebee.(talk)(become old-fashioned!) 16:27, 23 January 2023 (UTC)
 * Hi again, ;


 * Yes, that's alright. I don't really care about the details of the format, or even if it's reduced or removed later. I'm only worried if the quotes are too big. It's also time-consuming so I don't think I'll use quotes in the future. References are enough, right? JaikeV (talk) 11:38, 25 January 2023 (UTC)

What is the Other cities with a Hanseatic Community section for?
I first noticed the section when I was looking for Fellin and Pernau in the cities list, as it is widely accepted at least in Estonia that those were Hanseatic cities. I found the cities in the Other cities with a Hanseatic Community and that made me wonder, what differentiates that list from the one a bit above it? JDFRG (talk) 20:16, 2 November 2022 (UTC)


 * Those lists are going to need a lot of work, because different editors must have used them in pretty different ways. The result is that "Other cities with a Hanseatic Community" is sort of a wastebucket. A lot of places in that part were actually Hanseatic. In short, your Estonian information's likely correct. JaikeV (talk) 11:22, 30 January 2023 (UTC)

Kontors
The word "Kontor", whatever its use in Low German, is used in the historical literature for the "big four" (Novgorod, London, Bergen, Bruges-Antwerp). I suggest we use it the same way in the list, and call the smaller trading posts "outposts" or "factories". JaikeV (talk) 14:02, 1 February 2023 (UTC)

Capitals
The article currently uses the word "capital" (for cities) kinda recklessly. I think it's pretty arguable if Lübeck was even an "informal capital", but the main towns of the Drittel and Quarters certainly were no capitals. I suggest that this word is removed for cities. JaikeV (talk) 14:10, 1 February 2023 (UTC)

Few questions, relevant to Hanseatic League
[Message text copied here from User talk:Pdebee:]

Hi, if I want to get input from other editors on an article, what's a good place to find it? And is it also possible to hide those totally massive lists with a click? JaikeV (talk) 12:41, 30 January 2023 (UTC)

1. Regarding your first question, there are two ways to ask other editors to comment on an idea/suggestion/request concerning an article. The simplest way is to create a new section at the article’s talk page (like you’ve done here) to post your message; this way, all editors who have included the article in their watchlist will see your message and will reply if they decide they can contribute. Another way is to raise a more formal Request for comment, using the RfC template, which you would also post at the article’s talk page; this will reach a much larger group of editors, including those who have never contributed to the article at all. I hope this helps. 2. Regarding your second question, please could you clarify what you mean by ? Thank you. With kind regards; Patrick. ツ Pdebee.(talk)(become old-fashioned!) 17:54, 30 January 2023 (UTC) With kind regards; Patrick. ツ Pdebee.(talk)(become old-fashioned!) 20:47, 2 February 2023 (UTC) You’re most welcome; I’m glad you approve. Many thanks to you also for all your improvements. With kind regards; Patrick. ツ Pdebee.(talk)(become old-fashioned!) 16:21, 3 February 2023 (UTC)
 * Hi ,
 * The lists in "Lists of former Hanseatic cities", especially the one in "Hansa Proper". That one has over 40 rows and many are more than two lines high. That entire section takes up more than a quarter of the page. That's pretty long. JaikeV (talk) 14:00, 1 February 2023 (UTC)
 * Hi ; I have now hidden the two tables, as you requested, and the subsequent two lists also. ✅
 * Thanks so much! It really looks great! JaikeV (talk) 11:21, 3 February 2023 (UTC)
 * Hi ,

Merging sections
I propose to merge "Legacy Hanseatic connections" and "Modern versions of the Hanseatic League", maybe "In popular culture" too. They aren't really about the Hanseatic League at all but about its legacy or its later reception. It's not very relevant to the actual Hanseatic League too so hopefully it can be shortened at a point. JaikeV (talk) 13:24, 27 January 2023 (UTC)
 * Any objections? Other suggestions? JaikeV (talk) 13:29, 24 February 2023 (UTC)

Latin for the Steelyard
You can find the quote here, but it's not full view https://books.google.nl/books?id=GMGe7oMbx9UC&q=%22In+civitate+Londonia%22+%22in+Curia+Calibis%22 JaikeV (talk) 12:32, 25 January 2023 (UTC)
 * Is this enough as a reference? JaikeV (talk) 13:20, 24 February 2023 (UTC)

Most definitely! I would certainly use it myself. By the way: very well done on all your recent updates! With kind regards; Patrick. ツ Pdebee.(talk)(become old-fashioned!) 14:15, 24 February 2023 (UTC)
 * Dear ;

Names in other languages
The list of names at the start is a bit too long. Another user put it in a reference as clutter, and while I totally don't think that's a good idea, I agree it's all a bit much. Could some of it be placed in a footnote or in a later section? (@) Imo it's good sense to keep one Middle Low German and one German name in there. JaikeV (talk) 09:35, 15 March 2023 (UTC)

Good idea! ✅, by creating a new Notes section to contain the pronunciation IPA tags, per MOS:PRONPLACEMENT. With kind regards; Patrick. ツ Pdebee.(talk)(become old-fashioned!) 12:22, 15 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Dear ;

Belgium and the Hanseatic League
[Message text copied here from User talk:Pdebee:]

Thought I'd clarify after this that the flag of Belgium probably identifies member cities like Dinant and not the kontors in Bruges and Antwerp. The kontors were trading posts abroad for the Hansards, so not really "part of" the Hanseatic League. The flags of UK/England and Norway aren't in the box too. JaikeV (talk) 13:28, 11 April 2023 (UTC)

Thank you for your message, and for the explanation. I can only apologise for not understanding the subtleties of what counts as 'in' or 'out' of the League. Please feel free to remove the Belgian flag (and any other flags) from the infobox. Thank you once again for clarifying this. With kind regards; Patrick. ツ Pdebee.(talk)(become old-fashioned!) 13:38, 11 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Dear Jaike,
 * ?? I don't think any apology was needed, really, it's a pretty common misconception that Bruges and Antwerp were in the League. Anyway it seems my message about Belgium wasn't clear: I think Belgium deserves being on that list as much as any other country. JaikeV (talk) 09:44, 12 April 2023 (UTC)

You're right: I did not understand&mdash;and still don't&mdash;the point you made and why you posted your initial message to me, and also what "list" you mean, since the link you attached in the first sentence above does not show a diff, so I have no context to which I can relate your point. If you want me to do anything or respond to your original point, then please kindly help me understand; thank you in advance. With kind regards; Patrick. ツ Pdebee.(talk)(become old-fashioned!) 12:11, 12 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Dear Jaike,


 * It was just to be clear about the rationale. You, correctly, corrected someone who, incorrectly, took out the flag of Belgium in that "Today part of" list at the page top and you did that with this message: "Reverted unexplained removal of the flag of Belgium, which identifies Bruges and Antwerp." Some Belgian cities were members of the Hanseatic League. But a kontor, like a factory, was a trading post in a foreign city from the Hansa's perspective, even though Flanders was pretty much part of the Holy Roman Empire after the treaty of Senlis, and these cities with kontors weren't members and their traders certainly didn't have reciprocal privileges in Hanseatic towns. So Belgium fits in that list for a different reason.
 * Why I say that is to draw a line: only countries with cities that participated in the League should be in that list. JaikeV (talk) 10:35, 24 April 2023 (UTC)

Thank you for your clarification (immediately above), which I have read several times, and am still a little confused: since the cities of Antwerp and Bruges were kontors and these cities with kontors weren't members and their traders certainly didn't have reciprocal privileges in Hanseatic towns, then why do you say that ... Belgium fits in that list for a different reason.? In other words: what is that other reason? I apologise for being so dense, but thank you for your continued patience with me! With kind regards; Patrick. ツ Pdebee.(talk)(become old-fashioned!) 17:18, 28 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Dear Jaike,
 * The reason is that there were other Belgian cities that participated in the Hansa. The easiest to prove with references is Dinant, in Namur, and Hanseatic membership for that one is pretty certain because professional historical specialists say it was a member often, but I saw some claims too that Liège belonged to the League. JaikeV (talk) 09:38, 2 May 2023 (UTC)

Ah, I see; now I understand! In that case, shouldn't Dinant (and possibly     Liège) also appear in the long table at List of cities in Hansa Proper? What confused me is that the Belgian flag only appears for Bruges and Antwerp at List of Hansa kontore and in no other table/list. Please let me know if you need any help with adding them to the list, and I will be glad to assist. Many thanks! With kind regards; Patrick. ツ Pdebee.(talk)(become old-fashioned!) 15:13, 2 May 2023 (UTC)
 * Dear Jaike,
 * Yeah I'll try to fix up enough acceptable references for Dinant soonish. The list isn't really complete, but getting references for the history section and moving stuff from "Other cities with a Hansa community" into the right list are bigger priorities for me. And other stuff, and honestly Wikipedia overall isn't very high priority for me now. JaikeV (talk) 08:26, 4 May 2023 (UTC)

OK; thanks for your reply. With kind regards; Patrick. ツ Pdebee.(talk)(become old-fashioned!) 08:35, 4 May 2023 (UTC)
 * Dear Jaike,

Hansard
Should include this under “Hanseatic”, Legacy section.

A Hanse trader was a “Hansard”. This evidently became a family name, and one Thomas Hansard descendant became the “King’s Printer” around 1800 and printed the British Parliament’s speeches. These records continue to date, and are still called Hansard” Carrt7 (talk) 16:39, 15 April 2023 (UTC)
 * I'm fine with mentioning that, that's the name and the Parliamentary records, somewhere, but I think that amount of text is a bit too much for something that's pretty offtopic. Already said in the leading section that a Hanseatic trader was a Hansard. JaikeV (talk) 10:35, 24 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Looks like most dictionaries don't link the name to the Hanseatic League. (Oxford Dictionary of Family Names of Ireland, Dictionary of American Family Names) So it doesn't belong in the article. JaikeV (talk) 09:01, 5 June 2023 (UTC)