Talk:Hermannsdenkmal

Old comment
it's pointed to Paris, not Rome; maybe this could be included?
 * Was this misplaced, or once relevant? It's unclear to me DBaK (talk) 12:40, 20 October 2019 (UTC)

Major expansion
Since the German article has few if any inline cits I started from scratch with a booklet as the major source.Drow69 (talk) 15:57, 2 July 2015 (UTC)

Re the quotation marks on Germanic which somebody found objectionable: It is not reflected in the English WP article on the Germanic peoples, but some historians today question the analytical value of the whole concept. See e.g. this interview. It seems "Germanic" is an expression that can mean quite different things to different people and its interpretation/meaning likely has changed substantially through time as well. So caution is probably advised when using such a word in an encyclopedic context.Drow69 (talk) 10:00, 3 July 2015 (UTC)
 * See Germanic languages and Germanic peoples. Neither of these terms are at all controversial outside of a very tiny minority scholars, primarily in Germany. The interview you've linked to is contains a variety of weasely, dubious statements that are well outside of the mainstream in academia. It shouldn't be taken as an example. &#58;bloodofox: (talk) 01:34, 4 July 2015 (UTC)
 * I do not claim to be an expert on current academic thought on these issues. My point was simply that today the meaning of the word "Germanic" can depend heavily on the specific context or on the background of the user, as is described here on the German WP. It has also without any doubt changed quite significantly compared to the time when the monument was constructed (or to the Nazi period). Bandel and many others then actually considered Hermann to be "the father of the German nation".Drow69 (talk) 15:28, 6 July 2015 (UTC)
 * That is what is great about wikipedia. Some bloke who can't speak English very well is doing a "major expansion" based off a tourist pamphlet and also advises that the word "Germanic" should be offensive. Wow. 73.220.34.167 (talk) 23:47, 12 March 2016 (UTC)

Name of Germanic leader?
Why would it be translated *into* German? Wouldn't his name "Arminius" have been "translated into Latin" (from German)? Historian932 (talk) 16:38, 7 January 2016 (UTC)
 * I fixed that a bit. I am unsure why he is even referred to as "Arminius", rather than "Hermann"...73.220.34.167 (talk) 00:48, 13 March 2016 (UTC)
 * No. Since the "Germans" at the time left no written documents, his name was recorded only by the Romans in Latin...as "Arminius". When people started talking/writing about him much later in the German language, they then "translated" the Latin name. There is no independent oral tradition about this person that has come down to us. We thus do not know what his Germanic contemporaries were actually calling him.Drow69 (talk) 10:59, 8 January 2016 (UTC)
 * That's not true. There are all sorts of oral traditions and written Germanic texts about Hermann, apart from Roman writings...73.220.34.167 (talk) 00:49, 13 March 2016 (UTC)
 * Care to back that up with some RS? I also suggest reading this: http://www.kalkriese-varusschlacht.de/varusschlacht/antike-quellen/Drow69 (talk) 16:12, 14 March 2016 (UTC)

Was there in 772 a Hermannsdenkmal destroyed by Charlemagne? With the name Irminsul?
Does anyone know?

Lz89z1 (talk) 20:48, 1 December 2017 (UTC)


 * According to the Royal Frankish Annals Charlemagne ordered the destruction of a Saxon sacred object known as "Irminsul" in 772. AFAIK, its location is unknown, though, and I am unaware of any connection to Arminius. Some have argued that the Externsteine nearby were the location of Irminsul, but that is highly speculative.Drow69 (talk) 11:42, 6 December 2017 (UTC)