Talk:Herne Bay

NEW
I have made a minor edit to the Herne Bay Schools section by putting the Herne Bay high bit in to a link to the herne Bay high artical and the web link beside it in [1]. any probs then just change it back to how it was. thanks TheSpartians 22:31, 6 March 2007 (UTC)

GA review

 * GA review (see here for criteria)


 * 1) It is reasonably well written.
 * a (prose): b (MoS):
 * 1) It is factually accurate and verifiable.
 * a (references): b (citations to reliable sources):  c (OR):
 * 1) It is broad in its coverage.
 * a (major aspects): b (focused):
 * 1) It follows the neutral point of view policy.
 * a (fair representation): b (all significant views):
 * 1) It is stable.
 * 2) It contains images, where possible, to illustrate the topic.
 * a (tagged and captioned): b lack of images (does not in itself exclude GA):  c (non-free images have fair use rationales):
 * 1) Overall:
 * a Pass/Fail:
 * a Pass/Fail:

The article is reasonably well written in some sections. The history section looks very good. But most of the sections are not organized very well. Several sections are also very brief and incomplete. The lead section should adequately summarize the content of the article; see WP:LEAD for guidelines here.

Promote the demographics section. It should be mentioned earlier in the article, perhaps right after history, or maybe after a 'geography and climate' section. Which brings up another point, there should be a section describing the geography & climate.

Cultural information seems scattered about the article, and should probably be combined into a 'culture' section. It might help to move 'attractions and landmarks' here, since these are mainly cultural attractions. The 'social' section would also fit here as well, although I'd rename it to something like 'annual cultural events & fairs', or something of that nature. Sports facilities might also be a subsection in this area, but should be renamed to simply 'sports', and include more than just info on overall sports in town.

'Interesting facts' seems kind of like a 'trivia' section, which are generally discouraged in articles. This is mainly a list of random topics, and is better if these items are integrated into other areas. Most of these might fit into an 'in popular culture' section, which could be a subsection under 'culture'.

'Affiliations' should probably be renamed to 'sister cities', as these look like sister city relationships. These relationships should be referenced as well. It might help to use Sister Cities International as a reference here. If you browse around to other city articles on wikipedia, you'll see how others have treated these relationships.

The external links section seems a bit long. Some of these links could be eliminated. It might help to review WP:EL.

For information on including inline citations, review WP:CITE.

Hope these suggestions help improve the article. It might also help to review the good article criteria. Dr. Cash 01:07, 29 March 2007 (UTC)


 * Article is much improved. Good work. I moved the portal link from right above the infobox to just below it, as it was causing some of the text in the lead section to overlap into the boxes. Some minor copyediting could be done, as the prose is still a bit awkward at times. Also, try to reduce the amount of external links within the text of the article. An excessive amount of external links within the article is generally discouraged. Ultimately, these should be converted to actual wiki-articles themselves. Cheers! Dr. Cash 21:41, 11 April 2007 (UTC)

The page i good but maybe a bit about te schools and current pier plans will make it more interesting, and it may raise funds for thepier that everyone wans to be built. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Lizamare15 (talk • contribs) 21:57, 2 July 2008 (UTC)

Climate weatherbox
I looked at the weatherbox on this page, and I noticed that the Fahrenheit temperature values were a couple of degrees out, so I calculated them myself [Fahrenheit = (Celcius x 1.8) + 32].

Epbr123, as you are the main contributor to this excellent article, I hope you don't mind that I made the weatherbox into a template on its own page - it saves space and looks tidier on the edit page. =) Yours, Rossenglish 13:42, 13 June 2007 (UTC)


 * That's excellent. Thanks. Epbr123 14:00, 13 June 2007 (UTC)

Spoken version added
I have added a spoken version of this article; see the link above. Hassocks5489 (talk) 23:48, 12 March 2008 (UTC)

Christmas lighting
I have today undone an edit which put Herne Bay's current embarrassment due to poor Christmas lighting into the header paragraph. (I should add that I believe the edit which I undid was made in good faith and was supported by a citation). In the full context of Herne Bay, this is not a major or enduring matter. Perhaps it could be added to a section near the bottom of the page? --Storye book (talk) 16:01, 24 November 2012 (UTC)

Shaun
If you have some newspaper information about Shaun, can you reference it? Obviously all information needs to be Wikified. Slightnostalgia (talk) 18:24, 27 October 2014 (UTC)

External links modified
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 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/20050115091033/http://www.canterbury.gov.uk:80/cgi-bin/buildpage.pl?mysql=1136 to http://www.canterbury.gov.uk/cgi-bin/buildpage.pl?mysql=1136

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External links modified
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I have just modified 14 one external links on Herne Bay, Kent. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
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External links modified
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I have just modified 7 external links on Herne Bay, Kent. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20131224091649/http://www.herneandbroomfieldpc.kentparishes.gov.uk/userfiles/File/Piggots1840HerneBayandHerneStreet.pdf to http://www.herneandbroomfieldpc.kentparishes.gov.uk/userfiles/File/Piggots1840HerneBayandHerneStreet.pdf
 * Corrected formatting/usage for http://www.hernebaypier.co.uk/history.htm
 * Corrected formatting/usage for http://www.canterbury.gov.uk/cgi-bin/buildpage.pl?mysql=155
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20110605024000/http://www.metoffice.gov.uk/climate/uk/averages/19712000/areal/england.html to http://www.metoffice.gov.uk/climate/uk/averages/19712000/areal/england.html
 * Corrected formatting/usage for http://www.stagecoachbus.com/timetables/46Triangle.pdf
 * Corrected formatting/usage for http://www.canterbury.gov.uk/hernebayinbloom
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20070310195427/http://www.dave-sinclair.co.uk/ds_3.asp to http://www.dave-sinclair.co.uk/ds_3.asp

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External links modified
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I have just modified 6 external links on Herne Bay, Kent. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20070504192351/http://www.theheritagetrail.co.uk/piers/herne%20bay%20pier.htm to http://www.theheritagetrail.co.uk/piers/herne%20bay%20pier.htm
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20070504192351/http://www.theheritagetrail.co.uk/piers/herne%20bay%20pier.htm to http://www.theheritagetrail.co.uk/piers/herne%20bay%20pier.htm
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 * Corrected formatting/usage for http://www.midkentwater.co.uk/Press/hosepipe%20ban.htm
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20140512222254/http://www.churchestogetherhernebay.org.uk/pdfs/List%20of%20Churches.pdf to http://www.churchestogetherhernebay.org.uk/pdfs/List%20of%20Churches.pdf

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 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20150908205407/http://www.thebayrollerhockey.co.uk/about%20us.htm to http://www.thebayrollerhockey.co.uk/about%20us.htm

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Requested move 14 January 2019

 * The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this section. 

The result of the move request was: moved. (closed by non-admin page mover) feminist (talk) 00:52, 29 January 2019 (UTC)

Herne Bay, Kent → Herne Bay – Per WP:2DABPRIMARY the place in New Zealand (which is part of a larger settlement) is named after this (which is a separate settlement) one and this one has over 13x the population.  Crouch, Swale  ( talk ) 18:27, 14 January 2019 (UTC)
 * Oppose. The "named after" history usually has little relevance in choosing a primary topic. That's why the mighty metropolis of Baltimore, County Cork is not the PTOPIC, the title having been usurped by a wee upstart in North America.
 * And WP:2DABPRIMARY is a) an essay, and b) does not apply here, 'cos there are 4 items on the dab page. -- Brown HairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 04:31, 15 January 2019 (UTC)
 * There are 4 items but 1 refers to the Kent location and the other is no longer called "Herne Bay". Although 2DABPRIMARY is an essay it wasn't created by me and has been used in quite a few other cases.  Crouch, Swale  ( talk ) 12:55, 15 January 2019 (UTC)


 * Support Herne Bay Kent is more notable worldwide than Herne Bay NZ because (1) Herne Bay Kent has a far higher population than Herne Bay NZ. (2) Herne Bay Kent has spawned a number of separate WP articles about its suburbs, structures and associated people (see Category:Herne Bay, Kent); Herne Bay NZ has not yet shown sufficient notability for that. (3) Herne Bay Kent is big enough to have its own suburbs; Herne Bay NZ is a suburb of Auckland. (4) Herne Bay Kent has its own Herne Bay High School in its suburb of Greenhill. Students living in Herne Bay Auckland have to attend secondary schools in other suburbs of Auckland. (5) The earliest date mentioned in the Herne Bay Kent article is 1800; the earliest date mentioned in the Herne Bay NZ article is 1850. However Herne Bay windmill (now demolished) that stood on its seafront, was built in 1708 or before. (source) Stone age hand axes have been found in the cliffs next to Herne Bay, demonstrating settlement in the area going back thousands of years. (source). Storye book (talk) 09:58, 15 January 2019 (UTC)
 * Oppose. Multiple Herne Bays, on top of the proposal being pointless to any reader. —SmokeyJoe (talk) 11:26, 16 January 2019 (UTC)
 * There are only 2 though, hatnotes are enough and if your point about being pointless is about being more recognizable, we've been through that enough before.  Crouch, Swale  ( talk ) 17:57, 16 January 2019 (UTC)
 * There are more than two entries, even if you don’t like two of them. Even if there were only two, 2DAB pages should be neither created nor deleted.  Pointless is the waste of time fiddling of perfectly fine titles.  Fixing things that don’t need fixing is to do harm.  Hatnotes clutter the top of the page, don’t display on all formats, are a screen reader problem, and implicitly declare that the title is ambiguous to some.  Hatnotes should be avoided where they can.  Your proposal is to remove some helpful title text, leaving white space, and then consume a couple of lines with a hatnote.  What reader benefits?  —SmokeyJoe (talk) 13:29, 17 January 2019 (UTC)
 * If this was the case we would freely disambiguate nearly all topics (as opposed to using hatnotes sometimes), I (and others) have provided evidence to show that this page is the WP:PRIMARYTOPIC for "Herne Bay" even if it is ambiguous and requires hatnotes.  Crouch, Swale  ( talk ) 13:35, 17 January 2019 (UTC)
 * Freely disambiguate? You mean “title precisely”? PRIMARYTOPIC is a frequently challenged imprecise old concept that no one can explain a rationale for.  And page views mostly reflect importance, and we know that the Brits consider anything British easily more important than some NZ place. This topic is also PRIMARYTOPIC for the current title, so PRIMARYTOPIC is a wash between the two.  So what is the motivation for change?  Is it not just hell bent title minimalism?  Changing an unambigous name to an ambiguous one would be a regressive move.  The current title is unambiguous to all.  The proposed title is ambiguous to anyone closely associated with that unimportant far away place.  The proposed title fails PRECISE. —SmokeyJoe (talk) 14:17, 17 January 2019 (UTC)
 * If it has a far higher population and has more views doesn't that support that it is a PRIMARYTOPIC? and thus should be moved. Places in NZ are probably considered more important to people there than British places too (unless maybe they know that the name comes from the other place). And any title that has a primary topic is ambiguous but WP:PRECISE also notes that if a topic is primary (such as Energy) then it the unqualified term is preferred over the qualified term (Energy (physics)) since it is more concise, and precise enough to be understood by most people.  Crouch, Swale  ( talk ) 14:51, 17 January 2019 (UTC)
 * And remember that I supported the Ulverstone move even though it was argued that the town of Ulverston was much more historic, in reply to the argument about Brits thinking British places are more important.  Crouch, Swale  ( talk ) 16:05, 23 January 2019 (UTC)
 * Support as clearly the PRIMARYTOPIC here, The |Herne_Bay,_New_Zealand|Riverwood,_New_South_Wales|Herne_Bay_F.C. pageviews all but prove that (Ofcourse it's not the be all and end all however it's certainly a factor in deciding),
 * Before someone mentions it I do indeed live in the UK and roughly live an hour way from Herne Bay however this !vote would've been made regardless of where I live - Anyway support per PRIMARYTOPIC. – Davey 2010 Talk 13:03, 16 January 2019 (UTC)


 * Support per nom – seems an obvious WP:PRIMARYTOPIC. Nortonius (talk) 13:13, 16 January 2019 (UTC)
 * Support per WP:PRIMARYTOPIC.Charles (talk) 17:54, 16 January 2019 (UTC)
 * Support. Clear primary topic. -- Necrothesp (talk) 14:47, 17 January 2019 (UTC)
 * Oppose. Herne Bay only gets 63% of the page views, and IMO that is nowhere near to define a WP:PTOPIC. Also, PTOPICs are notorious for collecting bad links-in which are unlikely ever to get found and fixed (unlike links to DAB pages), and which degrade the encyclopaedia. The DAB page has worked perfectly well since 2006, so WP:TITLECHANGES is also an issue: "If an article title has been stable for a long time, and there is no good reason to change it, it should not be changed". Narky Blert (talk) 10:52, 25 January 2019 (UTC)
 * The discussion has not yet decided that "there is no good reason to change it." Storye book (talk) 13:08, 25 January 2019 (UTC)


 * Support. The Kent locale is clearly a primary topic over the smaller suburb. &mdash; Amakuru (talk) 18:20, 25 January 2019 (UTC)
 * Support per nom, Amakuru, PRIMARYTOPIC and especially the argument at WP:2DABPRIMARY. —В²C ☎ 07:27, 26 January 2019 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

FA concerns
Looking at this one as part of the ongoing FA sweeps. This older FA not only contains significant uncited text in the latter half of the article, but the demographics seems to be missing a census, and the government and economy sections need a significant update, as the information there is from about 10 years ago. Hog Farm Talk 04:27, 31 March 2021 (UTC)


 * No problem now. --Dthomsen8