Talk:History of Yemen

Untitled
It would be nice if someone could expand on the Ethiopian rule of Yemen other than just talking about how they left

Image
There is only one image (besides the map) in this article and it is of some Persian king who did something in Yemen. This article is not about Persians. If there is going to be one image at this time, it should convey a significant event in Yemen history or a notable time in that region or an important historical Yemeni figure. If there were more pictures, I wouldn't object to the inclusion of the Persian king image. And I don't understand why it has to be at the top rather than next to the section it corresponds to. --Inahet 07:02, 7 April 2006 (UTC)

Timeline and dates in the history of yemen
I have had hard time finding decent websites about the ancient history of yemen. This is infact becasue the history of yemen is largely unkown, and archeologists have started recently (about 20 years) searching ancient sites. Thats why the dates are not accurate.

If anybody knows good websites, and mostly importantly books, about the history of yemen, then please please post it here and share your wisdom with us.

Jidan 19:59, 1 June 2006 (UTC)

You did a really good job on the artcle so far; the images really makes a difference.

Another thing, I think we should replace this sentence: "It joined the the islamic faith during the lifetime of the prophet Mohammed in 630 AD." with "Yemen in 630 became part of the Islamic movement (or community)." What do you think? --Inahet 22:49, 1 June 2006 (UTC)


 * From my understanding the Kingdom of Ma'in is older then Saba. One example is the order of the creation of cities, you will find Ma'in is the oldest. Also spelling, some spell it Ma'een, which is more correct in English phonetics. by BB
 * There are many discrepencies (excuse my spelling) for example about the kingdom of saba --->The Sabaean kingdom is located in what is now the Aseer region in southwestern Yemen, and its capital, Ma'rib, is located near what is now Yemen's modern capital, Sana'a [1]. As according to tradition, the eldest son of Noah, Shem, founded the city of Ma'rib.<--- This is a bit incorrect, it seems the source is Saudi Arabian. Because it is true Saba was in Aseer region, yet that is SouthWest Saudi Arabiya not Yemen and it is not near Marib. Noah's son Shem is claimed to have built the beginnings of San'a, not Marib. Most believe Saba started around Sirwah their capital then the capital moved to Marib. From there it spread north to take all the lands of Ma'een (Ma'in). It spread north and took all the areas of Aseer & Najran. Some archeologists & scientists believe that most of the Arabian peninsula came under a Sabaen Protectorate (not to mention some of East Africa like Ethiopia) and all the trade routes were guarded, and the Arabian Peninsula came under Sabaein Tax laws although the bedouin were mostly autonomous until they wanted to trade in business.
 * The main point is that Saba (Sheba) was in Sirwah & Marib (north central Yemen), and spread north (aseer najran), west (ethiopia), southeast to southern Yemen & eastern Yemen.


 * Well, you seem very knowledgeable, so feel free to make any corrections to the article, just make sure to provide references. Are you from Yemen, BB? --Inahet 06:42, 12 July 2006 (UTC)


 * The dates here seem to be off. The first inscriptions in Epigraphic South Arabian date to the 8th c. BCE, with the first affirmed date (through synchrony with Assyrian sources) is the 7th c. BCE. Ma'in is older than Saba, but only by a century or so. The Minain language died out ca. 2nd c. BCE, which I assume is when the kingdom ended as well. Hadramawt was incorporated into Himyar beginning in the 4th c. AD, and Qataban around 200 AD, I believe (my source says end of 2nd c. AD, but it had to be in existence in the 3rd c. because a Himyarite source lists it as allied against Himyar along with Hadramawt, Saba', and Aksum). Does anyone else have some dates and reliable sources? I don't think there will be any objections, as this isn't a huge change from what is up now (earlier when it put Ma'in at 1200 BCE it would have been), but just bring it up with me here if you have a different source with dates. I'm not touching "Awsan," because I know nothing about it. &mdash; ዮም  |  (Yom)  |  Talk  • contribs • Ethiopia 06:51, 12 July 2006 (UTC)


 * Regarding the timeline, it has no sources, and lists suspect dates. 1292 BC is way too precise, as are almost all of the others. I said that I wouldn't change dates so far off because I wasn't sure, but these dates are too precise to be correct, so I'm changing them in line with the rest of the article. &mdash; ዮም  |  (Yom)  |  Talk  • contribs • Ethiopia 07:53, 12 July 2006 (UTC)

Hi all, I'm planning to seriously rewrite the article called Sabaeans and Sheba. I'm a student of history at university of Leuven, with access to academic sources and special interest in pre-islamic Arabia. Possibly a lot of that work can be reused here. I'd like some help with writing and wikipedia lay out as I'm not a native speaker and haven't yet made much contributions. Due to a large number of projects I'm already working at in my free time, university it will not be overnight however. Most probably I'll also be able to help out more on similar topics in the future. Always feel free to talk to me at my talk page, though I'll most probably will not respond that soon. I'm always avaible for helping review a related article's history and facts.

Either way on the timeline issues. Well I'm not surprised, dating is one of the more problematic issues in Sabaean studies. Only two synchronies from outside the region are known. With the paper on the second only now to be presented at the end of this July in London with a publication following soon after. Either way I'd say that we keep BC dated not more precise than a century and early dates even between two centuries. There various opinions on the Sabaean timeline, with long and short chronologies being proposed by different experts.

The many theories of where the Sabaean possibly lived or hailed from before their attested occupation of the region around Sirwah and Maryab should not be present. A simple we're not sure is plainly more than enough, if not to much already. Those are mere speculations that barely founded, none of which are wildely accepted. If some day more progress is booked scientifically and a good case is made that gets wide support, then we can readd it.

On Awsan we indeed have little more information except for what Karib Il watar tells us in his inscriptions. The information we provide on it should be limited, as it corresponds to our knowledge.

"Some archeologists & scientists believe that most of the Arabian peninsula came under a Sabaen Protectorate (not to mention some of East Africa like Ethiopia) and all the trade routes were guarded, and the Arabian Peninsula came under Sabaein Tax laws although the bedouin were mostly autonomous until they wanted to trade in business." That's the first I heard and read about it... In their heydays their influenced reached far, but to say that they had most of Arabia as protectorate is a very big exaggeration. The bedouins always were largely if not almost completely autonomous from the settled nations of the pre-islamic period. Try taxing someone you don't know where he is, what properties he has and in no way is part or subject of your states. The only connection with the state is that he roams the lands between the settlements you control. Outside of the Yemen core lands, most lands outside of city walls and village lands was simply bedouin land. Only the trader nomads could be taxed, at markets or passing gates, and heavily too. Why do you think so many kingdoms who did occupied themselves with the trade much and didn't produce incense got rich? Toll. And because of the insane value incense had, especially the farther away from the source, it was still worth it for the traders. Blast now I started rambling on...

Either way warm regards and all, Titirius (talk) 12:34, 9 June 2010 (UTC)

Pre-Muslim History and the Role of Jews
It is very noticeable that the Jewish role in Yemen, which indeed goes back to very ancient times and has left its mark for example in the story of the Queen of Sheba who visited King Solomon and took home his religion, has pretty well been written out of this account. That is not because this influence or history is not important, even beyond the major impact it had on "Sabian" and later cultures all up and down the Red Sea: in fact it had fundamental influence on later Muslim religion and belief, since the large Jewish cultural and religious presence in Muhammad's time influenced many aspects of his understanding and practice. For example, it is omitted that around 500 C.E., the King of Yemen, Abu-Kariba Assad-Tobban, converted to Judaism and so did an unknown number of his people, especially the leading clans and tribes. There was no attempt to force this faith on those who wished to remain pagan or Christian in the kingdom, which at that time extended all the way up into northern Arabia and Yathrib, in consonance with the usual Jewish view that one does not need to be Jewish to be worthy of salvation, and that there are righteous and godly people in every culture and religion, including the pagan ones. E.g., in the Hebrew Scriptures, there is a whole book devoted to Job who is presented as the model of righteousness pleasing to God, but he is introduced at the start as a pagan Arab of central Arabia. But Abu-Kariba's son, Zorah Yusuf, or Dhu-Nuwas ("Curly locks") as he was nicknamed, was a hot-headed man (typically for the time), and decided after taking over the kingdom in 520 to punish Byzantine merchants and tax Christians generally for the persecutions of Jews in Byzantium; this aroused some Christians in the land to rise against him and invite the Christian Ethiopian king Elesbaa or Atzbaha to war against him. This war brought an end to the Jewish kingdom around 530, causing some Jews to flee further north and to strengthen the Jewish communities of central Arabia that were so influential in the next generation on Muhammad.

Why do we not read a neutral, less biased account about this? Why indeed is Dhu Nuwas described in this article as an illegitimate usurper, and not the legitimate inheritor from his father? Because of a strong POV on the part of Arab contributors that is also reflected in this generation in the Yemeni and Arab refusal to recognize and admit that there actually exists a legitimate Jewish state in the Middle East, the State of Israel.

Downplaying the Jewish presence and influence also allows for a more marvelous account of Muhammad, who thus springs upon the scene with some knowledge of the Hebrew Scriptures, even reflecting on occasion later Rabbinic interpretations, and indeed who makes Moses the most referred to prophet in the Qur'an, purely by divine inspiration.

There is no evidence of reference to or learning from the numerous Jewish scholarly researches, especially in German, French, English and Hebrew, into the history and cultures of Jews in Arabia, or for that matter about Arabs in Arabia. That makes this article inadequate, biased and unacceptable. However, I will not revert the entire article as should be done. I merely note that Wikipedia is not a reliable source, precisely because of the danger of such biases in their anonymously authored and edited articles. This article demonstrates that, as do several other Wikipedia articles I have checked with dealing with Jews and Arabs. The biggest populations with vested interests in the "story," will win out over smaller populations every time. Truth itself is politicized and ignored.

May I point out that by restoring full dignity and respect to the positive role Jews have played in Yemeni and larger Arab history and culture, a more peaceful world will be encouraged and fanaticism and chauvinism lessened? Probably a wasted message. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 211.28.235.121 (talk) 02:03, 13 January 2009 (UTC)


 * If you're able to provide citations from reliable sources, then any additions you can make to this article are welcome. — Hex    (❝  ?!  ❞)   17:31, 13 January 2009 (UTC)

Merge in of South Yemen
I've suggested that South Yemen be merged into this page. It refers to a page called People's Republic of South Yemen, which now only redirects to South Yemen. The Former South Yemen section seems like it would be appropriate. — Hex    (❝  ?!  ❞)   20:52, 12 July 2006 (UTC)


 * I think South Yemen should remain a separate page about a specific period of Yemeni history. It's obviously significant enough to exist as an independent article rather than merging into History of Yemen. &mdash; ዮም  |  (Yom)  |  Talk  • contribs • Ethiopia 08:12, 13 July 2006 (UTC)


 * Definitely keep the article South Yemen. If somebody has no idea what "South Yemen" means, he or she can read the first paragraph of South Yemen:
 * South Yemen is a term currently used to designate both the People's Democratic Republic of Yemen (1970-1990) and its predecessor, the People's Republic of South Yemen (1967-1970), that exercised sovereignty over the territory that is now the southern part of the state of Yemen in southern Arabia.
 * Then he or she gets a pretty good idea what "South Yemen" means. I don't think he or she would prefer to read ten paragraphs in the History of Yemen and get totally lost in it. Chanheigeorge 21:04, 4 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Just to add my opinion, if South Yemen is to be merged, it should be to the People's Democratic Republic of Yemen, because these two terms mean more or less the same country. Chanheigeorge 22:57, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

Post Islamic history
This section covers, in narrative style, the history of Yemen from Muhammad to the end of Ottoman Rule. Then following this narrative, there are 10 subheadings which divide this history into its historical constitutents; yet these subheadings are empty, and furthermore many of them are covered in the narrrative section preceding the subheadings. If no one plans to add to these sections, I purpose that they should be deleted, as they look rather awkward and break up the flow of the article, making it more confusing to understand. Trojan traveler 01:04, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

Stampede and USS Cole bombing
I had removed the portions that described the aforementioned events (and this action has been reverted) because simply thay don't have enough significance to be included in the section on Yemen's modern history. Events that should be included should have had a major effect on either the economy, the political situation or if the event brought about social change, etc. Basically, all that should be included are the milestones. The USS Cole bombing may have been a milestone in the history of US presence in the Middle East, but not for Yemen. Remember, this article is to have a world-wide point of view rather than that of the majority of English speaking Wikipedians.

The stampede is another event that is tragic, but as in any other country there have been many tragic events, so why is this special? If there are no objections, I'm going to remove the paragraphs again within a week. --Inahet 04:40, 15 September 2006 (UTC)
 * I object. I find them important. EFG 04:45, 15 September 2006 (UTC)


 * It had no impact or significance on any thing in Yemen. Maybe it was important in USA, in this case add it to History of United States of America. Jidan 13:52, 15 September 2006 (UTC)


 * What is your argument here? Please backup your objection. --Inahet 04:46, 15 September 2006 (UTC)


 * I concur with Inahet. These events, while tragic, were not formative historical events. EFG, please justify your statement. — Hex    (❝  ?!  ❞)   12:16, 15 September 2006 (UTC)
 * First of all, this is a content dispute, so "rvv," which means reversion of vandalism, is completely inappropriate. Second of all, you have offered no proof nor background to support your position. The USS Cole Bombing is important because it launched the close cooperation between the U.S. and Yemen in the War on Terrorism. If you'd like some links on specifics, and I'll be providing some anyway when I start sourcing this article, I will be happy to oblige. EFG 16:27, 15 September 2006 (UTC)
 * I'd like to know why the material about the USS Cole bombing and the Ibb stampede is relevant to a section of the page entitled "Republic of Yemen", which discusses the civil war and subsequent reorganization of the government. At the very least your material should be placed in a separate section. — Hex    (❝  ?!  ❞)   19:05, 15 September 2006 (UTC)
 * I have no problem with that. Right now I am working on splitting the article. EFG 19:21, 15 September 2006 (UTC)
 * You said that the USS Cole attack is important because it "launched the close cooperation between the U.S. and Yemen" on the "War on Terrorism". Well there is no mention of that in the section. What is read, and I will summarize it for you, is an U.S. missile destroyer was attacked while refueling in the port of Aden, in Yemen. In my opinion, this is biased; you might as well simply put "we were attacked there" in every article on a country in which U.S. ships, submarines, embassies, etc. were attacked. This is not appropiate, there should only be emphasis on its relationship to the subject.


 * If the "War on Terrorism" plays an important role in Yemeni politics then it should certainly be mentioned. Otherwise, it seems to me that it fits in Foreign relations of Yemen. Also, you didn't address the stampede in your post. --Inahet 17:38, 16 September 2006 (UTC)
 * I did not write the passage on the USS Cole bombing, and it is not my responsibility to make it seem NPOV for you. If you feel it is not neutral, then by all means, add the NPOV tag or alter the content. The stampede was well covered in the mainstream media and a lot of people died. Therefore it merits inclusion. There should be less focus on getting rid of two small paragraphs in modern history and more focus on getting rid of much larger, much less important parts of older Yemeni history in this article. EFG 17:43, 16 September 2006 (UTC)
 * Well then if the section is not going to be rephrased as to be relevant to the history of Yemen, then I have a reason to remove the section in its entirety. It is not my responsibility either to make it NPOV, as I'm not the one arguing for its inclusion. And even if it is NPOV it belongs in Foreign relations of Yemen, unless close cooperation with U.S. on fighting terrorism is a very important issue in Yemen, otherwise Yemen's relationship with the U.S. is no more important than its relationship with China. --Inahet 17:27, 20 September 2006 (UTC)

The Uss Cole doesn't mean anything to the Yemeni history. other minor events had biigger effects on Yemen such as the assasinations of Hamdi, Gashmis, the 1978war, 1986 war, 1994..etc and no one included them.--Skatewalk 21:07, 6 August 2007 (UTC)

cleanup tagging
This article really needs an opening paragraph, or at least an opening sentence, before it goes right into the subsections. Chris 05:12, 22 May 2007 (UTC)

Timeline Confusion
Most Yemeni nations will appear as they started at the same time (8th century BC), keep in mind that the main reason we know about these nations is because they started using the South Arabian script around that period. We learned about the Akkadians around 2300BC thats around the same period they begun using the Sumerian script. When the Phoenicians invented the first Alphabet around 12th century BC. All of a sudden we learned about numerous nations from that time on. Therefore, the dates are script related.

The reason why Most Historians consider Ma'een the oldest of the known Ymeni nations is because of its Location in the desert region, Saba'a and Qataban, Hadramut came next and Awsan, Dm't and Himyar were the last to appear. This reflects an obvious North to South desert to the highlands movement of the Semites in Yemen. Also the language evolves the more you go inland towards Himyar compared to the earliest scripts founf in the desert regions --Skatewalk 06:42, 6 August 2007 (UTC)


 * The idea that Ma'in is older than Saba' is rather outdated and was rejected about 50 years ago. The two are today known to be about contemporary; Hadhramaut also appeared roughly around the same time around 800 BC. Qataban and Himyar appear a few centuries later, however. D'mt is roughly contemporary with Saba', but the origins of both and especially D'mt have not yet been investigated fully to clarify their chronological positions (no excavation of its capital, Yeha, has occurred, and the only major archaeological mission was that of Enno Littmann in 1902). I don't know what you mean about the languages evolving. Qatabanic and Himyaritic are of course later than Sabaic, Hadramitic and Minaic. The earliest forms of the alphabet are not from the desert, however (at least not Central Arabia and not the Sayhad). They are from al-Jawf and elsewhere in Yemen, such as Hajar bin Humeid (in the centre-south). While some, while van Beek, may believe(d) that Sayhadic civilization came from the North, it's not at all established, and the early period is too poorly understood to make such a claim.


 * Note: I removed the additions of User:KhaldunAwwas, which included many misrepresentations and fanciful claims. &mdash; ዮም  |  (Yom)  |  Talk  • contribs • Ethiopia 07:03, 6 August 2007 (UTC)

The Semitic language came North to South, like you said Al Jawf which is in Sayhad. Both Al Jawf and to a lesser extent Marib are part of Sayhad and desert regions, Whats today Khawlan is the land between the desert and the highlands. The fdate 800BC is just an estimation, all the Yemeni ancient nations that we know about were strongly influenced by the arrival of the Script to South Arabia, just look at the Akkadians after Sumer. We dont have any dociumented history about the Semites until the Akkadians entered Sumer and thats because they started using the Sumerian script --Skatewalk 21:04, 6 August 2007 (UTC)

Why did the last version reverted
Yom can you please point out the parts you dont agree with? I really find most of the article shaky, but I didn't find nothing "new" or flase--Skatewalk 21:17, 6 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Well, what he basically did, was take Ancient history of Yemen, which had been split from this page as discussed above, and added his own POV to it. The whole stuff about the Qahtan, Semitic languages, etc. have grains of truth but mainly contain fabrication and Arab tradition, rather than history. Moreover, he edited a cited statement on the Tihama cultural complex to say that it originated in the Tihama and spread to the Western side of the Red Sea and that "Africanists" claim the opposite, as opposed to the neutral assessment that existed earlier (that it probably originated on the Western side of the Red Sea, but that its origins are still little known; I have a citation to add also, as it is not accepted by all and is still extremely tenuous). I'm going to remove his edits now, and if you'd like to deal with them at Ancient history of Yemen, take it up on the talk page there, please. &mdash; ዮም  |  (Yom)  |  Talk  • contribs • Ethiopia 01:15, 9 August 2007 (UTC)

If you cant respect Yemeni traditional history, please stick to editing Ethiopia!
We are trying to show respect to our brothers in Ethiopia, but we cant tolertae the Anti-Arab agenda you are spawnnng such as below: (rv POV, fabrication and largely apocryphal tradition & legend; see Talk:History of Yemen). Today Yemen is a 100% Arab nation. And All Arabs trace their lineage back to Yemen. the whole Toihama section is added just because they suspected African origins to jars found in Tihama! We know Yemenites traded with Africa. And Yemen never had any Non-Semitic influence (opposed to Ethiopia that was Cushite before the Yemenites settled Eat Africa). Yemen is he only 100% Semitic pure Arab nation (name one NONSemitic language that existed in Yemen). While Non Semitic languages were spoken in Ancient Syria and Mesopotamia.
 * The article listed refrences that you chose to delete! and disrespect as utter BS? So tell me who is fabricating here!--Skatewalk 22:29, 9 August 2007 (UTC)


 * I've responded at Talk:Ancient history of Yemen. Let's keep the discussion there to keep it centralized. I'm not disrespecting Yemeni tradition, but tradition is not history. It's fine to note that, in Arab tradition, Yemen is the original homeland of Arabs (the Qahtanites), but we also have to note that, historically, we only have evidence of the South-Semitic speaking South Arabians, not Arabs, until about the 6th century (with Arabs conquered by South Arabians at the beginning of the 5th century). &mdash; ዮም  |  (Yom)  |  Talk  • contribs • Ethiopia 05:24, 10 August 2007 (UTC)

Error in image description
The description of the imageSun temple.jpg is incorrect. See: Image talk:Sun temple.jpg -- Tapatio (talk) 15:51, 18 December 2007 (UTC)

1994 civil war
This is a major event and deserves its own subheading. I created a link to it in another story. Please do not delete it.--BoogaLouie (talk) 18:17, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

Pre-Muslim History and the Role of Jews

It is very noticeable that the Jewish role in Yemen, which indeed goes back to very ancient times and has left its mark in the story of the Queen of Sheba who visited King Solomon and took home his religion, has pretty well been written out of this account. That is not because this influence or history is not important, even beyond the major impact it had on "Sabian" and later cultures all up and down the Red Sea: in fact it had fundamental influence on later Muslim religion and belief, since the large Jewish cultural and religious presence in Muhammad's time influenced many aspects of his understanding and practice. For example, it is omitted that around 500 C.E., the King of Yemen, Abu-Kariba Assad-Tobban, converted to Judaism and so did an unknown number of his people, especially the leading clans and tribes. There was no attempt to force this faith on those who wished to remain pagan or Christian in the kingdom, which at that time extended all the way up into northern Arabia and Yathrib, in consonance with the usual Jewish view that one does not need to be Jewish to be worthy of salvation, and that there are righteous and godly people in every culture and religion, including the pagan ones. E.g., in the Hebrew Scriptures, there is a whole book devoted to Job who is presented as the model of righteousness pleasing to God, but he is introduced at the start as a pagan Arab of central Arabia. But Abu-Kariba's son, Zorah Yusuf, or Dhu-Nuwas ("Curly locks") as he was nicknamed, was a hot-headed man (typically for the time), and decided after taking over the kingdom in 520 to punish Byzantine merchants and tax Christians generally for the persecutions of Jews in Byzantium; this aroused some Christians in the land to rise against him and invite the Christian Ethiopian king Elesbaa or Atzbaha to war against him. This war brought an end to the Jewish kingdom around 530, causing some Jews to flee further north and to strengthen the Jewish communities of central Arabia that were so influential in the next generation on Muhammad.

Why do we not read about this? Because of a strong POV on the part of Arab contributors that is also reflected in this generation in the Yemeni and Arab refusal to recognize and admit that there actually exists a legitimate Jewish state in the Middle East, the State of Israel.

Downplaying the Jewish presence and influence also allows for a more marvelous account of Muhammad, who thus springs upon the scene with rich Biblical knowledge, and indeed who makes Moses the most referred to prophet in the Qur'an, purely by divine inspiration.

There is no evidence of reference to or learning from the numerous Jewish scholarly researches, especially in German, French, English and Hebrew, into the history and cultures of Jews in Arabia. That makes this article inadequate, biased and unacceptable. It is not worthy of the "B" rating given it.

However, I will not revert the entire article as should be done. I merely note that Wikipedia is not a reliable source, precisely because of the danger of such biases in their anonymously authored and edited articles. This article demonstrates that, as do several other Wikipedia articles I have checked with dealing with Jews and Arabs. The biggest populations with vested interests in the "story," will win out over smaller populations every time. Truth itself is politicized and ignored.

May I point out that by restoring full dignity and respect to the positive role Jews have played in Yemeni and larger Arab history and culture, a more peaceful world will be encouraged and fanaticism and chauvinism lessened? Probably a wasted message. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 211.28.235.121 (talk) 01:52, 13 January 2009 (UTC)

Any one noticed a revolution in March 2011?
How come there is nothing on the actual events in Yemen??? Capbat (talk) 15:07, 21 March 2011 (UTC)

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