Talk:Honoré Laval

Laval's responsibilities
Further research needs to be done about Father Laval's actual role in the decimation of the population of Mangareva and its inhabitants. He seems to share responsibilities with other missionaries in the mission like Father Cyprien Liausu (Chrysostome Liansu/Cyprien Lyaousseau) seems to have taken part as well and Father François Caret seems to have been there at the start but left before the major constructions began. Also Father Liausu was the one responsible for the construction of Rouru Convent not Laval and was head of the mission until 1855 before Laval took over as head.--KAVEBEAR (talk) 02:29, 27 July 2015 (UTC)

they have but gone more quickly to heaven
Laval is quoted to have said "Ah, Monsieur le Compte, they have but gone more quickly to heaven." Is cited in. What was the original French quotation from Laval?--KAVEBEAR (talk) 05:22, 27 July 2015 (UTC)

Insane
No doubt, but I didn't see that in the sources I found. What I found suggests he was removed from office after Gambier ceased to be a French protectorate. The office disappeared. Inkwell765 (talk) 02:04, 5 August 2015 (UTC)
 * From what I've read, I think he was already controversial with the French colonial authorities in Tahiti because he got into a lot of conflicts with French and European merchants. Also protectorate didn't end in 1871; it started officially in 1871. The protectorate ended in 1881 with the official annexation not in 1870 or 1871. His superiors in Tahiti removed him to Tahiti I think probably to save face and not antagonize the colonial authorities who would have had more authority as the Gambiers were finally under their authority. . Also the source used didn't say he was Governor ("Honoré Laval who is superior of the mission, like its predecessor Liausu, is in this respect regarded as the official representative of France. It is the delegate of the governor, which is not without causing some problems." ); Laval's role would have been unofficial since the Gambiers were never under French protectorate during his time in the islands. The insanity and murder claims seems to be just sensationalized accounts modern English sources. For this article to be neutral and concise, it requires use of non-neutral French and English sources. English sources seems riddled with mistakes; Stanley claims he was buried at St. Michael's but most sources state he was buried in the cemetery in Catholic Mission in Papeete. I will look into other sources but this really needs the eyes of a bilingual editor. --KAVEBEAR (talk) 05:23, 5 August, 2015 (UTC)


 * I added a section about his going to Tahiti, returning for a jubilee in his honor, suffering deafness, and dying in 1880 and being buried in Papeete, Someone replaced that with the insane comment, Vandalism? Inkwell765 (talk) 14:22, 5 August 2015 (UTC)

An odd article
I came to this page because in browsing the article about the Congregation of the Sacred Hearts of Jesus and Mary, I came across the statement that "One of their less fortunate actions occurred in the Gambier Islands, where the extremely harsh treatment of the islanders by missionaries Honoré Laval and François Caret decimated the population", and I wanted to see just what it was they did. The article re François Caret mentions nothing of this which is not surprising since he arrived in the Gambiers on August 8, 1834 and sailed back to France in 1837.

The article states, "Thousands of local Polynesians died during his despotic reign which began after his arrival in 1834 and lasted until 1870, when the Prince Regent of Mangareva asked the French government to end the protectorate." The source cited does indeed mention that the Prince Regent of Mangareva asked the French government to end the protectorate, but says nothing at all about either depotism or thousands dying.

There is also an unsourced statement that "During his reign, the population decreased from 12,000 to just 500." However, the Gambier Islands article indicates that by the 15th century it was already seriously depopulated due to deforestation and civil strife, much like Easter Island.
 * Wiltgen mentions a French sea captain as estimating the population of the entire archipelago in 1834 as between 800 and 1000.


 * Garrett puts it no more than 3,000 inhabitants in total.
 * Paul Delbos says it never exceeded 2,500.
 * Jean Paul Chopard says 1,300 to 1,400.
 * Karl Rensch says they counted 2,124.

I doubt that any source that projects a death toll three times the entire population, can be considered reliable. (That also does not take into consideration the young men who were recruited voluntarily or otherwise to work elsewhere.) Granted an epidemic in 1835, Liausu's letter of January 1841 mentions 48 births and 20 deaths on Mangareva for the year 1840: old men, infants under three months old, some women (possibly childbirth), and three teenage girls who drowned when they abandoned their boat in heavy surf and tried to swim to shore. Mannanan51 (talk) 07:58, 6 January 2016 (UTC)