Talk:Houston/Archive 7

Houston nicknames
Please see the nicknames discussion and consensus in the talk archive if you have questions concerning why or where the nicknames appear in the article. Thank you, Postoak 19:47, 6 May 2007 (UTC)

Houston Cuisine
How about a section on the regional culinary tastes here.(Tex-mex, mexican, etc..). I don't expect a complete list of restaurants or the other types of foods listed here, but ones that are unique to this region of texas.
 * I think a mention of regional culinary tastes in the culture section would be fine, what do you propose? I would steer clear of mentioning restaurant names because this would attract spam and battles. Also, defining a representative restaurant for a certain cuisine will be difficult. For example, "One popular cuisine in Houston is Tex-Mex. A popular Tex-Mex restaurant is....". Add "Pappasito's Cantina" and then starts the edit war. No it's Mama Ninfa's, no it should be Doneraki, etc. Then we get "Taco Bell", "Casa Ole", "Pancho's Buffet" and the tacos at "Jack in the Box" added daily. Get the picture? :) Postoak 21:16, 10 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Totally agree, but there are some examples that might eventually reach a consensus. Even the Mention of "Ninfa's" would cause a major discussion.  I think a "PURE" version of mexican cuisine should be mentioned and then mention some "tex-mex" meals. Just the dishes and influences with perhaps notable chefs that might give an example. Not to mention Texas BBQ as well as Cajun.  --Hourick 22:40, 10 June 2007 (UTC)

Not to be a dick but
Do we need this sentence in the lead?

"The city itself has several sister cities worldwide."

I mean Oklahoma City, Fort Wayne, Indiana, and New Haven all have "several sister cities worldwide", but you don't see them mentioning it in their intros.--Loodog 04:17, 20 June 2007 (UTC)
 * No, I don't think so. It is mentioned in "Governmment and Politics". "The city itself.." sounds awkward. Let's get some additional feedback. Postoak 04:42, 20 June 2007 (UTC)
 * remove   Spin2cool 18:55, 20 June 2007 (UTC)
 * I will remove it. Postoak 21:31, 20 June 2007 (UTC)

Transportation: Angola, South Africa
I added a comment about flights here but it may be too specific for this article. I won't mind if it's taken out. VK35 16:05, 10 July 2007 (UTC)

wikimapia.org
If you know Houston, add places (and verify/deny the accuracy of existing places) at: http://www.wikimapia.org/#y=29770000&x=-95390000&z=11&l=0&m=a&v=2 --Landersn 11:49, 15 July 2007 (UTC)

Historical Events section
Wouldn't it perhaps be best if the article was broken down a bit more for "one time events" as opposed to those that regularly occur? Those that regularly occur (annual, bi annual, etc) have a notation put on that? I think it's in need of a little organization. --Hourick 15:13, 15 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Are you concerned with the history section of this article or the Historical events of Houston article? -- Postoak 17:36, 15 July 2007 (UTC)

I also think that the development and growth of Houston after the devastating 1900 Hurricane in Galveston should be mentioned. That was the main reason for the federal government approving the dredging of the Houston Ship Channel shortly thereafter, so that the main port for Texas could be moved inland. Mwaltrip 05:59, 30 August 2007 (UTC)

Removed text
I removed the text below because it is unsourced and may also violate "What Wikipedia is not" (WP:CRYSTAL). Also, it was misplaced it the article (appeared in the footnotes) and has a few spelling errors.

Recently the City of Houston entered into a building boom that rivals that of the 1980's. As many as 6 highrises have been proposed for the downtown area and countless others for the uptown area. One of the buildings proposed is the Marvins Finger Park One Tower that will rise 37 stories. This 501' structure will be the biggest all-residential building in the downtown area. Also on the drawing board is the 31 story, 630,000 sq.ft. Discovery Tower being developed by Trammel Crow Co. They have said that the building has the potential to grow to 1.2 million sq.ft if the market warrents and tenants are eagar to sign. Recently Hines Co. also announced plans to build a 900,000 sq.ft. building. Hines has said that the building will rise reguardless of a tenant lease. This, along with Discovery Tower, will be a LEED building; meaning environmentally friendly. Discovery Tower and the Hines building both have the potential to rise to over 700 feet. These projects will be the first towers to be completed since the 40 story Enron building completed in 2003. Other projects around the city are mainly residential buildings on the order of about 30 stories tall.

-- Postoak 07:01, 20 July 2007 (UTC)

No Mention of Midtown, Montrose, Westheimer
The hustle and bustle of Houston is found in Midtown. Houston has some of the best cuisine in the WORLD and its all in Midtown. From the Highland Village shopping, River Oaks, to the Rice Village, to the hipster thrift shops on Montrose and Westheimer, you can find tons of great shopping. Cafe Brasil, Agorra, Cafe Artise...I mean its like a little Greenwich Village in Midtown. It should be mentioned.
 * "The hustle and bustle of Houston is found in Midtown" and "Houston has some of the best cuisine in the world and its all in Midtown" are debatable and POV statements. I'm sure others would consider downtown, Uptown, the Energy Corridor and even the Medical Center more active, unless your are only referring to shopping and restaurants. Anyway, looks like Midtown and Montrose are mentioned in the article. Postoak 02:05, 5 August 2007 (UTC)

Although at least two of the places mentioned above aren't technically in Midtown, I generally agree with the sentiment. I think the criticism points to a weakness of the opening paragraphs of the 'Culture' section. It is event driven. Sure, the art-car parade is televised and fun, but this event, together with the others, do not represent day-to-day lifestyle of the city's denizens. I think a more representative opening section would take a more broad-sweep approach, based on descriptions of districts (i.e. Midtown) inside and outside (i.e. Galveston?) the loop, and a separate 'Events' sub-section within the 'Culture' section. If the 'Events' approach to culture is kept, then it should be more comprehensive. --Landersn 01:27, 1 August 2007 (UTC)
 * I moved the events originally in the Culture section lead into a subsection (similar the other subsections such as Arts and Theatre, Sports, Tourism, etc, which do represent the day-to-day lifestyle of the citizens). The main article isn't the place for a comprehensive list of events and should only include a few, notable events. The comprehensive list belongs in List of events in Houston, which is linked from the events subsection. Postoak 02:16, 5 August 2007 (UTC)
 * This change works for me, and I agree that a comprehensive list should be separate. I also agree that the subsections are representative of Houston... and every other major city in the US. That's the problem. Why not add a sub-section on commuting? Its social, technical, and involves coordination like an orchestra or team on a massive scale. Plus, every city has it. I've given more thought to describing Houston culture by 'district' and realize it isn't easy. (Has to do with the zoning landscape, or it may be the shear number of square miles needed to cover.) I'll look for a city wiki that does what I am suggesting.--Landersn 04:04, 8 August 2007 (UTC)

I agree with the above, including the part about midtown being separate... Midtown is the area between downtown and the Museum District. The light rail passes through it on the way there headed south. Then you have River Oaks, Greenway Plaza, Montrose, and the Medical Center around there. Deatonjr 11:37, 2 August 2007 (UTC)

I started an aricle about Southwest Houston
Hello! I started an article about Southwest Houston, Houston, Texas - I need some help with sourcing to find neighborhoods that can be identified as in "Southwest Houston" - Should I include Greater Southwest Houston Commerce's definitions? WhisperToMe 06:35, 8 August 2007 (UTC)

Pronunciation
I've just added the IPA pronunciation: I'm surprised it hadn't occurred to anyone before! --NigelG (or Ndsg) | Talk 14:23, 30 August 2007 (UTC)
 * It was there a while back, but removed somewhere along the way. THanks for replacing it.Postoak 22:10, 30 August 2007 (UTC)

Protection for 48 hours
With all the vandalism going on today, I request that this article be placed for protection. --Hourick 18:49, 30 August 2007 (UTC)
 * I don't think they'll give it to you. If you guys can keep up, they prefer to keep the front page article unprotected.--Loodog 18:59, 30 August 2007 (UTC)
 * That's an awfully silly reason to keep from protecting a page. I think it should be done so that nothing gets overlooked. --Hourick 19:28, 30 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Oh, I agree. It'd make my job, yours, and everybody else reverting vandal's jobs easier, but I've requested this sort of thing from them before, and they told me, "Oh, you guys are keeping up, there are 1 million eyes on it.  It'll be ok."--Loodog 19:34, 30 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Absolutely charming of them. No wonder bots were created for this. --Hourick 19:43, 30 August 2007 (UTC)
 * At the end of the day, when it's removed from the Main page, we can go through the history and revert any missed vandalism. We've got a lot of exposure today. And some very good edits that had not been considered before. I love Houston on the front page. I've checked the current against my last edit (which I checked this morning against the last edit yesterday, and I don't think the vandal patrol has missed any as of now. --Evb-wiki 21:28, 30 August 2007 (UTC)
 * I was up late last night watching the page (I'm at work now). So much vandalism. I will check things now. I noticed image resizing, but we can discuss this later. Postoak 21:42, 30 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Only 2 more hours. Hang in there. [[Image:Smiley.svg|20px]] --Evb-wiki 22:13, 30 August 2007 (UTC)

Inconsistancy
This page says Houston is the 4th largest metro area in the U.S. while the metropolitan area page lists it as 6th. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Jcsunderman (talk • contribs) 19:36, August 30, 2007 (UTC)
 * Nope, it's right. It says 4th largest city, which is correct, and 6th largest metro, which is correct.--Loodog 19:39, 30 August 2007 (UTC)

UHMM....I don't think that picture is appropriate for this topic....Arely —Preceding unsigned comment added by 162.42.198.218 (talk) 22:54, 30 August 2007 (UTC)
 * UHMM...what do you mean? Postoak —Preceding unsigned comment added by Postoak (talk • contribs) 22:59, 30 August 2007 (UTC)

Well the first picture is that of the a female..Arely —Preceding unsigned comment added by 162.42.198.218 (talk) 23:01, 30 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Oh that, it was vandalism. It's gone. Thanks. Postoak 23:04, 30 August 2007 (UTC)

Pronunciation of "bayou"
I remember an older version of this article mentioned that the traditional Houston pronunciation of "bayou" is "bay-yō", not "bay-yū". The comment was marked "citation needed" and now it is gone. The Houston Chronicle had an article on the subject that could be cited, and I would like to see this small fact restored. Do others agree? --Ginkgo100talk 13:23, 2 September 2007 (UTC)
 * I don't. This is a common difference anywhere the word "bayou" is used and is not unique to Houston. There is no reason to mention it in the article about the city. --Evb-wiki 13:26, 2 September 2007 (UTC)
 * I've heard it pronounced both ways. I don't think it is relevant for the article. Postoak 13:33, 2 September 2007 (UTC)

Law Enforcement Juristidictions
It is understood that HPD is responsible Law Enforcment here, but I was also curious to know if perhaps other entities should be mentioned that overlap? Sheriff's Dept. and DPS patrol the highways here, Metro as well as the various Constables. I'm not talking about Bellaire, Piney Point, and such as I know those are totally different municipalities. Someone raised this question to me and I didn't have an honest answer for them as to why they weren't included in the article. --Hourick 14:00, 2 September 2007 (UTC)

Splitting Hairs
It seems to me that everything in the article is based on the fact that Houston occupies such a massive land area. I'll use this comment as a reference:

"Houston has the 3rd largest gay community in the U.S.?" Well, it really doesn't. If you look at the states with the most gays, you'll see it almost perfectly coencides with the largest populations...  It seems to be a very misleading statement. Houston doesn't come close to San Francisco, Ft Lauderdale, Miami Beach, or New York for gay communities. All the charts of gay activity in the U.S. and only one, the top 10 zip codes, lists Houston, at #10.
 * Yes, the #3 ranking is incorrect. However, I checked the gay village article where the cities are ranked and Houston was #6 (I fixed the ranking from the source, it was originally 5). Apparently the ranking there is number of gay individuals by city and also by metropolitan area. Anyway, I updated the rank by MSA Postoak 00:48, 20 September 2007 (UTC)

Also, while houston may have a large metro and CSA, it has only a small Urban area, which is measured WITHOUT political deliniation. Looking at urban areas, Houston is #13. New York, LA, Chicago, Philly, Miami are the top 5. It should be stated that alot of the huge population numbers come from land space, not actual density. So in reality, it's not that big of a city (yes, I've been there many times, I lived in Dallas, neither are that big.) It seems to me that you should try to report more realisitic numbers. Just for an example, the Miami Metro area is about 5/3rds as dense as the Houston metro if you INCLUDE the everglades, which is an uninhabited national park. Urban area numbers and non-political numbers seem to be the best, as Jacksonville, Columbus, Houston, and a couple of other cities have simply annexed out until they were the biggest. Houston, after all, is the Sultan of Sprawl. Even LA is more than twice as dense!

If I were to judge the city by the articles (without the pictures, which really tell all), I'd think this really was the 4th biggest city in the U.S.
 * The article states that it has the 4th largest population (using the US Census city rankings like other city articles, except maybe for Miami). Do most city articles rank population by urban area statistics? Apparently not. Why should Houston use urban area numbers and other cities should not? Wouldn't this be inconsistent? Postoak 02:09, 20 September 2007 (UTC)

I think you need to pull alot of POV statements, like "Houston is a multicultural city.." Yeah, not really factual. That's POV. New York is a multicultural city, so is London and Toronto, and Miami is the only city on EARTH with a majority of foriegn born residents (59%), Toronto has 43%, LA 35%, etc. You really need to quantify these statements.
 * Does a city/MSA have to be greater that given percentage of foreign-born citizens to be considered multicultural? What is the criteria? I believe the statement is not POV and quite factual. I added a reference. Postoak 02:53, 20 September 2007 (UTC)


 * It's better, but it still seems boastful... Remember, "one of the largest" is bad, "the 9th largest" is good.  Even if it's not #1, try to not use "one of the..."  We had to do that for the Miami article, and it's a pain, but it helps.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by ReignMan (talk • contribs) 03:42, 26 September 2007 (UTC)

The article could be so great if it was just more accurate to reality. ReignMan 17:24, 19 September 2007 (UTC)

Houston, We have a problem
Hey guys! Do you think it would be OK to start an article about the "Houston, we have a problem" line and its origins?  Amit @  Talk  15:24, 29 September 2007 (UTC)
 * It is mentioned in the Apollo 13 article, but an article by itself might work. Postoak 19:04, 29 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Hmm.. I don't know if this really has enough depth for an article. I mean, quotes are quotes.  But if you can find enough non-trivia information about it to impel it beyond stub length, go for it.--Loodog 20:08, 29 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Just found out there's an entry on it on Wiktionary. Don't have much to add to it as of now.  Amit @  Talk  06:54, 30 September 2007 (UTC)

Recent changes
I replaced the weather box that was deleted. It provides good information for the climate section and is found on other featured city articles. Postoak 13:27, 7 October 2007 (UTC)

Lead section
A citation was requested for the following sentence in the lead: "The area is the world's leading center for building oilfield equipment." I grabbed that sentence from the "Economics" section of this article, which also appears in the Economy of Houston article. Why is a citation requested now when it has been in the article for over two years? This article made FA status without anyone ever requesting a citation for that statement. &mdash;RJN 02:54, 14 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Probably overlooked during FA. I searched but couldn't find a source for it. Postoak 19:16, 14 October 2007 (UTC)

I think the "em dash" is a bit overused in the lead, according to WP:MOS. I replaced a few with commas. Postoak 19:50, 14 October 2007 (UTC)