Talk:Huang Chao

Untitled
Changed a misattribution; wang xianzhi of tang is not the same as wang xianzhi of 500 years previous. Changed a dubious last sentence. Changed jiedushi mention for ease of understanding. Trivia such as the growing pre rebellion policy of using foreigners when possible in the military can be interesting on several levels, for example for the reason that the policy was implemented was precisely to prevent just such a rebellion, a dubious move. Or that Gao Xianzhi was the son of a conquered Korean general from the Korean campaigns, or that Tang society of the time was cosmopolitan and expansive, or etc etc etc. However as it was written it made for an ambiguous sentence. I have no wish to be rewriting articles at this time or even to revise this one into more grammatically standard english, as it works well enough and i'm pretty tired, so we'll leave it at that.69.121.103.175 20:27, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

Factual Accuracy
I have a few issues with the factual accuracy of this page. I did not make any edits pending a discussion of these particular issues.

1. Huang Chao didn't bring down the Tang Dynasty. He certainly weakened it, but didn't bring it down. This could be attributed to poor wording. - Response: After the rebellion, Tang power was effectively shattered.

2. I have seen no evidence that he formed his own Dynasty, especially one by the name of Qi. There were several Qi kingdoms in Chinese history. The one I have seen evidence for in the time period closest to this was a couple of decades later when a short-lived Qi State established itself in Shaanxi in 907 with the collapse of the Tang. This is 27 years after the claim in the article of 880. - Response: The Chinese sources are quite clear on this.

3. Turkic should be changed to Shatuo Turk for clarity's sake. I am currently working on a Shatuo Turk article.

I already have prepared alternative wording for all of these issues, but I will wait. If a week goes by without any comments, I will go ahead and alter the article.


 * David A. Graff in Medieval Chinese Warfare. 300-900 notes that Huang Chao proclaimed himself emperor, but does not say what name he chose for his dynasty. Fornadan (t) 19:21, 22 October 2006 (UTC)


 * Then feel free to note that with the source, but it seems inappropriate to assume that it was called the Qi Dynasty, unless it is a different one that arose on Shaanxi with the fall of the Tang.Ludahai 01:23, 23 October 2006 (UTC)

Response: Of course it was a different one.

Deleted content
I deleted the following part:

=========================================== ====== Another poem, Self Portrait (自題像), was allegedly also written by Huang, although its authorship was disputed: 記得當年草上飛，鐵衣著盡著僧衣. 天津橋上無人識，獨倚欄干看落暉. Remembering in years past of flying above the grass, My armour worn I wear a monk's habit. Upon a Tianjin bridge unknown to those who pass, Alone I lean against a railing and watch the sunset. Original translation on this page is messy and unpoetic: I will remember ancient that I command army fighting everywhere look like ran flying upside the straws) Now I take off armored uniform turned become monk's clothe) Stand on bridge in Tianjin, none walk men known me who I am) Turn back and depend on the bridge, watch wonderful sunset only I

Translation notes: This is a poem of a man lamenting the loss of past glories I take 草 (grass) to mean the Hoi polloi, Chinese 草民 = the common people, and that to "fly above the grass" is to be that in times past he considered himself superior to the masses. That he's worn his armour to its limits suggests that its become worn out, but I take it to mean that militarily defeated he no longer has an army, and is humbled into wearing a monks habit The last two lines are pretty much self explanatory.}}

=========================================== ======

In addition to being unsourced, this poem was not written by Huang Chao. It was attributed to Huang by novelists who wrote that he became a monk. The poem was plagiarized from 2 poems by Yuan Zhen:

http://www.zwbk.org/zh-tw/Lemma_Show/19978.aspx

智度師二首（元稹 唐詩）

四十年前馬上飛，功名藏盡擁禪衣. 石榴園下擒生處，獨自閑行獨自歸. 三陷思明三突圍，鐵衣抛盡衲禪衣. 天津橋上無人識，閑憑欄幹望落暉. Timmyshin (talk) 16:29, 10 June 2015 (UTC)

goodness. Indeed we can't let rubbish like that onto the page when it's totally wrong. But what about the name of the state he declared? Was it Qi?? Happy  monsoon  day  23:59, 6 December 2015 (UTC)

Should there be a separate article for Huang Chao's rebellion?
It feels like a lot of content here is about Huang Chao's rebellion rather than Huang Chao himself.

Wouldn't it be better if we make a separate page and put the items there instead? The rebellion is no small thing as it involved a lot of battles and casualties. I don't feel it's really suitable to put it all under one person's biography.

Plus on other language wikis we already have an article about Huang Chao's rebellion. Refer to wikidata

For example I don't see Hong Xiuquan needing such a long page because we have multiple articles on the Taiping Rebellion.

 Imcdc  Contact  12:31, 6 February 2023 (UTC)


 * Support I support such a move considering the rebellion went on after his death and involved many more historical figures. I haven't touched Tang dynasty related articles in a long time however and don't have the energy or time to do it right now. It will have to be done by somebody else. Qiushufang (talk) 13:30, 6 February 2023 (UTC)
 * Support The rebellion was an important event in Chinese history and involved a lot more people than just Huang Chao, so a separate article should be made. Mucube (talk • contribs) 20:45, 13 February 2023 (UTC)
 * Oppose. As Huang Chao only seems to be notable for his part in the rebellion, there would no justification in policy for a separate article. I would support a move (retitling) of this article to "Huang Chao's rebellion". Gog the Mild (talk) 13:50, 8 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Well, Hong Xiuquan is also only notable for his role in the Taiping Rebellion, so by your logic, there shouldn't be a separate page for him. Mucube (talk • contribs) 04:49, 8 May 2023 (UTC)
 * Support Huang Chao and the Huang Chao rebellion are separately notable, and there should be two separate articles, with the bulk of the current article moving to Huang Chao Rebellion, and Huang Chao limited to the biographical essentials and his personal life. BabelStone (talk) 09:40, 17 July 2023 (UTC)