Talk:Ice hockey at the 1998 Winter Olympics – Men's tournament

Steve Simmons Toronto Sun source
Does anyone have a copy of this piece, or a URL where it is accessible online? A search for that article in the Toronto Sun archives turns up nothing for me, which is surprising, given that most Toronto Sun pieces from that era are readily available. The source in question is:

Simmons, Steve (29 Jan 1998). "Path to Olympic gold fraught with Hasek". Toronto Sun. Sun Media.

Thank you. JimKaatFan (talk) 20:09, 15 April 2020 (UTC)
 * Never mind. The point is moot, as the Toronto Sun is a tabloid, and not considered a reliable source by Wikipedia's standards. So even if this article exists, it's not a source that we should be using. See this discussion. JimKaatFan (talk) 20:55, 15 April 2020 (UTC)
 * You think this is not a reliable source for what Steve Simmons opinion is?--SaskatchewanSenator (talk) 22:20, 15 April 2020 (UTC)
 * Is it even Steve Simmons' opinion? Obviously, you didn't leave a URL, so I have no access to the article. Can you point out the entire article somewhere? JimKaatFan (talk) 23:35, 15 April 2020 (UTC)
 * I think you'll need a newspaper archive to read the article. I used proquest.com. I don't think The Sun (or many newspapers) provide articles that old on their sites.--SaskatchewanSenator (talk) 23:50, 15 April 2020 (UTC)
 * You didn't answer either question. Can you do that? JimKaatFan (talk) 23:54, 15 April 2020 (UTC)

Recent change to Controversy section
An IP edtior recently made some POV edits to the Controversy section dealing with the US hockey team's trashing of their hotel rooms. Here's the text of the source: "U.S. hockey officials were in damage-control mode today after some American NHL players vented anger over an embarrassing Olympics by trashing their Olympic Village rooms." I think the current wording in the article accurately represents that source. I'm willing to discuss it here, of course. JimKaatFan (talk) 15:48, 7 May 2020 (UTC)

US players and post-elimination controversy
User:JimkaatFaan needs to understand that how WP:NPOV works. Specifically, it states "Avoid stating opinions as facts" ("Avoid stating seriously contested assertions as facts") and "Prefer nonjudgmental language". Even if the source uses loaded language to describe the team's actions, it doesn't mean that language should be displayed here. Consequently, please stop this disruptive editing. 38.49.203.223 (talk) 16:26, 28 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Everything in the paragraph as it was, was sourced. Meanwhile you added a trivial sentence about Brett Hull from something called "www.highbeam.com" - totally WP:UNDUE and unnecessary. JimKaatFan (talk) 02:03, 12 April 2023 (UTC)

Neutral point of view
I have studied the guidelines, and it seems User:JimKaatFan simply does not understand that quoting the source's unencyclopedic tone, even when the source is reliable, violates NPOV. Please, read the following:


 * Prefer nonjudgmental language. A neutral point of view neither sympathizes with nor disparages its subject (or what reliable sources say about the subject), although this must sometimes be balanced against clarity. Present opinions and conflicting findings in a disinterested tone. Do not editorialize. When editorial bias towards one particular point of view can be detected the article needs to be fixed. The only bias that should be evident is the bias attributed to the source.
 * Indicate the relative prominence of opposing views. Ensure that the reporting of different views on a subject adequately reflects the relative levels of support for those views and that it does not give a false impression of parity, or give undue weight to a particular view. For example, to state that "According to Simon Wiesenthal, the Holocaust was a program of extermination of the Jewish people in Germany, but David Irving disputes this analysis" would be to give apparent parity between the supermajority view and a tiny minority view by assigning each to a single activist in the field.

Claiming that the team was "stacked" and "responded" to losing by thrashing their rooms violates NPOV, even if the source uses that language. Thank you. Xkpsy (talk) 10:45, 16 April 2023 (UTC)
 * "violates NPOV, even if the source uses that language" - I think you need a better understanding of how this encyclopedia works. JimKaatFan (talk) 18:17, 6 May 2023 (UTC)
 * Quoting the AP article not only violates WP:NPOV but is also plagiarism. Please also read WP:WORDS. I think you may have some misconceptions on what neutrality stands for. Xkpsy (talk) 22:02, 6 May 2023 (UTC)
 * Using a few of the same words does not constitute plagiarism. JimKaatFan (talk) 22:13, 6 May 2023 (UTC)