Talk:Imidacloprid effects on bees

Question
It would be helpful if there was an study or mention of the level present in honey. If nectar contains 1.5ppb then when concentrated into honey what is the level. The second question becomes what level of pesticide would consumers prefer to be ingesting.Wfarler 18:25, 19 August 2007 (UTC)


 * Good question! I wish I knew. Please see also http://civileats.com/2010/10/15/sorry-new-york-times-the-bee-die-off-case-is-not-closed Ginger Conspiracy (talk) 03:52, 17 October 2010 (UTC)

FYI The EPA says that 3000 PPB is their standard for residue on strawberries. 1770 PPB for water. 1 PPB is so small you cannot even come close to imagining it.Treeguyenvironmentalist (talk) 15:37, 10 March 2012 (UTC)

Bayer-kills-bees.com
http://www.bayer-kills-bees.com/ is an advocacy site which I am planning to add to the external links anyway because it gets updated frequently with some news items that probably need to be in the 2011 section. 99.39.5.103 (talk) 00:06, 24 April 2011 (UTC)

Editing Document
I am having problems with a certain editor who is reverting this document without discussing on the talk page. I am willing to defend my statements and references on a point by point basis if there is any question about what I wrote. Currently, there is no consensus in the scientific community that viruses or parasitic flies are the cause of CCD. Furthermore, I have questions about whether this is relevant to a discussion of imidacloprid and bees, the topic of the page. JSimpson55 (talk) 16:55, 22 February 2012 (UTC)

I will get my sources listed,. This material is not to blame for the collapse of man made bee hives. Check the research. There is certainly no consensus that neonicatonoids are the cause either as you insinuate. What is your expertise in this material and situation?

So let's discuss and see if we can agree. But if you are going to make imidacloprid into the cause then we will need to get someone to referee this. it is clearly not the cause. I will get you a list of citations this weekend and document all my info.

If you would like to do the same I will read them. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 166.147.104.152 (talk) 22:33, 22 February 2012 (UTC)

The same highly exaggerated and inflammatory description is here. Let's get this page balanced like the imidacloprid page. Kept in mode of action. Took out description as a neurotoxin. Simpson. I ask who you are and what is your agenda? Tcprosser (talk) 10:33, 10 March 2012 (UTC)

This is about bees. Not half truths about water that is designed to make this look bad. This should keep on topic and if made about water. Then also put in that Canada and the EPA both say it is safe if used properly. It does not bioaccuumulate so the half sentence that lists a partial description is not true. This article should be marked NOT NEUTRALTcprosser (talk) 10:41, 10 March 2012 (UTC)

Added very relevant information about treating ash trees with this highly effective and important tool and how this use does not expose bees. If you have an issue with this please explain here before changingTcprosser (talk) 11:02, 10 March 2012 (UTC)

Binkerstein - You have an agenda and and are not legitimate when you put random sentences in from a journal that are misleading. Also - All sides of the story need to be told. I am not going away. You will not destroy the reputation of this product with your misleading half truthsTreeguyenvironmentalist (talk) 15:45, 10 March 2012 (UTC)

Also - I too care about this and bees. Who are you Birkenstein? If you are a concerned homeowner as you said before - then you are not qualified to create a balanced rational pageTreeguyenvironmentalist (talk) 15:48, 10 March 2012 (UTC) Bythe way this is tcprosser i changed my signatureTreeguyenvironmentalist (talk) 15:48, 10 March 2012 (UTC)


 * You do not have any right to grill me about who I am. You also do not have the right to use text copied straight from a study; that is a copyright violation. Finally, the text you chose from the Hahn et al study was cherry-picked for its positive character. Hahn is very clear that imidacloprid is fatal to bees. Binksternet (talk) 15:53, 10 March 2012 (UTC)

I personally know him and while we are all clear about bees dying. It's notcausedby treating ash trees. This page is about bees and imidacloprid not water. Dont take out my factual quotes. I included ALL the text aboutbeesin that document. You are clearly wrong here. I am putting this page in dispute. Your one sidedness will be exposed. Your agenda is misguided or dishonest.Treeguyenvironmentalist (talk) 17:25, 10 March 2012 (UTC)

Tcpro; Tcprosser; TcTreeguyenvironmentlist: one who is so adamant in demanding to know the identity/occupation/qualification of another, ought to lead by example by first revealing their own identity/occupation/qualifications and conflicts of interest. 70.171.44.124 (talk) 10:35, 9 October 2013 (UTC)BGriffin
 * He has--he works with this product and is concerned that customers may read this article and become alarmed about the environmental effects. Gandydancer (talk) 13:42, 9 October 2013 (UTC)

Mode of action on insect nervous system
Added a more accurate and scientifically descriptive depiction on how this material kills the insect and its selectivity to insects. Calling it a neurotoxin is not scientifically accurate as it is too broad a statement.Tcpro52 (talk) 15:08, 17 March 2012 (UTC)

This article has been taken over by people who refuse to look at the complexity of the world and thus ignore facts. Facts that could actually lead them to their cause in solving this issue. You must account for the fact that Imidacloprid was used widely in this country for 10 years before Colony Collapse Disorder became an issue. Despite banning it in France - It is STILL A PROBLEM!! By chasing the wrong and incorrect cause, you demonize something that is actually very highly beneficial for our society. If you spray any insecticide on some bees even in small amounts they will likely be affected. if its on the foliage or on the flower because it is sprayed, they will also get some. The one factor that is present in more than 97% of all cases that have been investigated has the occurrence of the Varroa mite. That should be the focus of attention and resources. Stop spraying the hives with floramite or other mitacides. Tcpro52 (talk) 03:29, 10 April 2012 (UTC)


 * In Germany public and scientific opinion is since 2010, that the Varroa mite is main cause of CCD, see The German bee monitoring project: a long term study to understand periodically high winter losses of honey bee colonies and German article. --Cvf-ps (talk) 18:12, 12 April 2012 (UTC)


 * Tcprosser, please provide a citation for the statement that CCD is continuing in France. &#8211;  mono lemma  t  &#8211; 06:09, 19 April 2012 (UTC)

Long section on neonicotinoid page
I'm working on adding detailed explanations of neonicotinoid mode of action (molecular basis of effectiveness on insects, as well as molecular basis of noneffectiveness on mammals) to Neonicotinoid. It's a biologically subtle selectivity, and some secondary/tertiary sources on the matter are incorrect.

There's a very long section on that page about Imidacloprid effects on bees. I'd appreciate it if an editor of this page could try to integrate any information that's in Neonicotinoid but not in Imidacloprid effects on bees into this page, as well as reducing that section in Neonicotinoid to 1-2 paragraphs. TIA!

– mono lemma   t  – 19:32, 12 April 2012 (UTC)

Seed treatment ?
"In 1999, the French Minister of Agriculture suspended the use of imidacloprid on sunflower seeds and appointed a team of expert scientists to examine the impact of imidacloprid on bees. In 2003, the panel of expert scientists called the Comite Scientific et Technique issued a 108-page report, which concluded that imidacloprid poses a significant risk to bees.[7] In 2004, the French Minister of Agriculture suspended the use of imidacloprid as a seed treatment for maize (corn)."

Is imidacloprid a "seed treatment" ? Imidacloprid needs to be applied to growing plants, so that it is distributed by the plants' internal fluid flows to all parts of the plant,  where it poisons insects that eat the plant, or suck the plants' fluids. A seed treatment usually is to prevent the seed being eaten while it is still a seed, or to inhibit fungal attack on the germinating seed. I don't think imidacloprid would work as a seed treatment.Eregli bob (talk) 08:08, 15 April 2012 (UTC)


 * It's definitely used as a seed treatment. Mode of action studies I've read indicate that imidacloprid enters the seedling as the seed coat breaks down and remain in the upper plant tissue for long enough to be effective. I don't recall offhand exactly where I read this, but if you want a ref, let me know and I'll try to find it. &#8211;  mono lemma  t  &#8211; 05:16, 19 April 2012 (UTC)
 * Here's a 2012 study in PLoS One about clothianidin coated maize: link. The authors state that "virtually all" of the corn planted in the United States is coated with a neonicotinoid. They specifically mention that one benefit of neonicotinoids is that they are translocated by plants. This 2011 study (abstract) states that neonicotinoids are found in high concentration in guttation fluid of plants grown from coated seed. &#8211;  mono lemma  t  &#8211; 06:06, 19 April 2012 (UTC)

Neurotoxic
For NPOV, I am removing the statement that Imidacloprid is a "Neurotoxin". It's acute oral LD50 puts it in a "moderately toxic" range. The wikilink included for Neurotoxin leads to a page dealing with mammalian neural systems only. The word is being used outside of a standard toxicological definition.83.70.170.48 (talk) 13:34, 21 December 2012 (UTC)
 * I replaced the word with sourcing that seems acceptable.Gandydancer (talk) 13:51, 21 December 2012 (UTC)

Balance
Where did the balance go from this article? Has anyone with half a clue given up fighting the wave of anti-insecticide publicity? Lithopsian (talk) 10:58, 15 May 2013 (UTC)


 * Wikipedia does not "fight the wave", it rides the wave. We describe the newsworthy press and the scholarly studies. Binksternet (talk) 12:11, 15 May 2013 (UTC)


 * What do you mean by balance? The title of the article is "Imidacloprid effects on bees", not "Does imidacloprid have an effect on bees?" PaleCloudedWhite (talk) 21:44, 15 May 2013 (UTC)

Merger proposal
This is not a good Wikipedia article. It is out of date, with little information after 2012. It does not represent a balanced point of view. Most importantly, its content overlaps substantially with other Wikipedia pages including Imidacloprid, Colony collapse disorder, Pesticide toxicity to bees, and Neonicotinoids. I propose that the existing content is merged into Pesticide toxicity to bees. Hanjaf1 (talk) 06:32, 22 July 2021 (UTC)
 * In the absence of voices to the contrary, I have edited some relevant content to Pesticide toxicity to bees and replaced the page with a redirect. Hanjaf1 (talk) 21:17, 20 August 2021 (UTC)