Talk:In medias res

Untitled
this simply does not make any sense: "it could be said that the Iliad does not start in media res, since it tells not the story of the Trojan war (which is a backdrop), but the story of Achilles' rage." Yes, it could be argued that the Iliad does not start in media res, but how can it be said that the whole of the Iliad is simply a story about Achilles' rage? There is so much more to the story -- this second clause therefore should be removed or modified to suit the actual objective content in the referred material. Pfhyde 00:19, 18 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Agreed. I think certain definitions of in media res would exclude the Illiad, but the comment about Achilles' rage is unsourced opinion and even more importantly, not relevant to this topic. -- nae'blis 00:30, 18 January 2007 (UTC)
 * the comment about Achilles' anger is not unsourced, since Homer says it in the first line of the epic 'Sing, o goddess, of the anger of Achilles, son of Peleus...' That's what the poem's about (as well as lots of other things as well, but that's what Homer says it's about).Hostiensis (talk) 10:28, 26 May 2008 (UTC)

How I Met Your Mother
Isn't that series more of a frame story? --W0lfie 02:03, 6 September 2007 (UTC)

Star Wars
Surely Star Wars, with its opening crawls, is the perfect definition of a narrative that DOESN'T start in media res? 217.154.102.195 (talk) 15:45, 30 November 2008 (UTC)


 * Star Wars is used as an example in and it really doesn't fit. Star Wars doesn't start in the middle and flash back.  It's a series with prequels.  And there is some contention as to whether the Lucas actually ever planned the prequels originally (he claims it, but there is some evidence that disagrees).  The citation would work to support the use of "in medias res" in a Star Wars article, but I don't think it is strong enough to prove that Star Wars is a enough good example.  There are plenty of solid film examples of in medias res and Star Wars is a very weak one if it is one at all. 203.35.82.133 (talk) 03:19, 14 November 2010 (UTC)

Lost... the meaning of medias res?
I really do not think Lost belongs in this article; character developing flashbacks don't really count towards the story at hand. If they did, nearly all fictional stories would be classified as starting in media res. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.211.220.163 (talk) 23:27, 30 September 2007 (UTC)
 * I think the pilot started after the crash and flashed back to getting on the plane, etc. In that case the pilot only would count, but not the series. 203.35.82.133 (talk) 03:49, 14 November 2010 (UTC)

I still don't know what "In medias res" MEANS
Because this page fails to translate it. I imagine it means something like, "In the middle, we begin" but since I'm not a Latin speaker, I have no clue. I don't understand how an entire wiki page can exist without failing to provide a simple translation? I'm surprised this was overlooked. - Theaveng (talk) 15:28, 20 November 2007 (UTC)


 * It means "in the middle of things" where the story starts off in the middle and earlier events are shown through flashbacks. 76.189.125.215 (talk) 00:02, 12 March 2008 (UTC)

Dante?
I don't see how the Divine Comedy fits the description of in medias res. It starts out, basically, as "one day while walking through the woods..." That wouldn't seem to meet the definition of starting in the middle of things. Dante starts at the start and goes chronologically.

--Jesse —Preceding unsigned comment added by 152.97.202.241 (talk) 01:45, 22 May 2008 (UTC)

I've removed the Comedy from the list of examples. If anyone has any good reason why it should be on there let me know. --Jesse —Preceding unsigned comment added by 152.97.90.96 (talk) 17:14, 23 May 2008 (UTC)
 * From Divine Comedy: "The poem begins on the night before Good Friday in the year 1300, "midway in the journey of our life" (Nel mezzo del cammin di nostra vita), and so opens in medias res". There are many references for this. Added one. dissolve  talk  18:42, 23 May 2008 (UTC)


 * But the poem is not about the life of Dante; it is only about a certain set of events--and it begins right at the beginning of that set of events. Going by your definition, any work that does not start at a man's birth starts in medias res.

Okay, I found a satisfactory explanation on Google:

"Similar to other epic poems, the Divine Comedy begins in medias res ("in the middle of events"). This means something has happened prior to the opening action that provides a catalyst for the journey. In this case, Virgil explains in canto 2 that he was summoned to Dante's aid by Beatrice, who was herself summoned by Lucia at the request of a woman able to alter the judgment of heaven (Inf. 2.94-6). This last woman, who sets in motion the entire rescue operation, can only be Mary, the virgin mother of Jesus according to Dante's faith. "Lucia" is Saint Lucy of Syracuse, a Christian martyr closely associated with sight and vision (her name means "light" and she was said to have gouged out her eyes to protect her chastity). Beatrice, who will reappear as a major figure later in the poem, was the inspiration for Dante's early love poetry (she died in 1290 at age 24) and now plays the role of his spiritual guide as well. Along with Virgil, these "three blessed women"--Mary, Lucia, Beatrice--thus make possible Dante's journey to the realms of the afterlife. "

--Jesse —Preceding unsigned comment added by 152.97.217.231 (talk) 20:26, 25 May 2008 (UTC)
 * --Jesse —Preceding unsigned comment added by 152.97.217.231 (talk) 20:23, 25 May 2008 (UTC)

This explanation does not indicate what events happened previous the Comedy that would qualify it as starting in media res. If it is the summoning of Virgil by Beatrice (and by extension Lucia and Mary) this is erroneous, as Virgil is summoned in response to the three beasts of the first Canto, in which are symbolized all the "previous" sins and errors of Dante's life, and thus this occurs within the story. If it is the mere fact of the three women's existence, the error is obvious. Other than the initial statement I fail to see how this justifies the classification of the poem as beginning such. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.68.118.211 (talk) 17:29, 24 December 2008 (UTC)

I agree that The Divine Comedy is not an example. Seadowns (talk) 14:04, 29 October 2018 (UTC)

The Telltale Heart
Wouldn't Edgar Allen Poe's "The Telltale Heart" be a notable example of this?70.182.250.209 (talk) 03:57, 1 September 2008 (UTC)


 * Not really. It has an introduction, but once the action starts it basically tells the story in linear order.  An "In medias res" story usually starts with a striking incident (storms in the ODYSSEY and the AENEID, the devils being thrown into hell in PARADISE LOST), then goes back to explain how it happened.CharlesTheBold (talk) 15:04, 21 December 2009 (UTC)

H.i.V.E.
Second book of hive series? 84.92.140.217 (talk) 16:40, 13 January 2010 (UTC)

Kalavela?
It specifically states on the Kalavela page of wikipedia that it begins with the creation of the world. Unless it later talks about what happened before time began, then I think it should be stricken from the list, no?--74.184.100.111 (talk) 08:21, 21 March 2011 (UTC)

"medias" vs. "media"
The article switches between "in medias res" and "in media res" throughout, with no explanation. Isn't "media" just incorrect? We need the accusative, "medias", to go with "res". Myrmecophagavir (talk) 15:29, 4 June 2011 (UTC)


 * Yes "medias" is correct.--WickerGuy (talk) 16:59, 4 June 2011 (UTC)


 * OK, I've changed "media" to "medias" throughout. Surprised there were so many instances! Myrmecophagavir (talk) 09:53, 14 June 2011 (UTC)


 * Yes, media is an error of the most rudimentary possible kind! Seadowns (talk) 00:58, 2 November 2018 (UTC)

Iliad and Odyssey?
I question the accuracy of the claim that the Iliad and the Odyssey are "the exemplar in Western literature" for in medias res, since my understanding is that both were merely parts of the much longer Epic Cycle, the rest of which survives only in fragments. So it's not that Homer's works were supposed to start in the middle of things &mdash; it's that the portions of the story immediately prior and following are lost. Is that not the standard position on these works, or am I missing something? --Lewis (talk) 06:45, 11 January 2012 (UTC)
 * I cannot agree with this comment. The Iliad and Odyssey are free-standing, separate epic poems. However, on reflection I don't think the Iliad begins in medias res. The subject is the anger of Achilles, as the first word announces, and he poem goes on to describe the inception of his anger. He is not angry when it starts. The Odyssey, on the other hand, starts when Odysseus is already well into his return, and has substantial flashbacks. Seadowns (talk) 16:18, 1 November 2018 (UTC)

Kill Bill Volume 2
Kill Bill Volume 2 is mentioned. Isn't it technically not In medias res because it is a direct sequel to the first film? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.236.69.216 (talk) 08:52, 10 April 2012 (UTC)

Corrupt usage by English speakers of the original in medias res as used by Horace
I just want to point out that in Latin something can not begin in medias res. In Latin it would have to be begin in mediis rebus. The original in + accusative used by Horace means that the reader is taken from the outside into something else. However, if you already begin from within something, as in beginning a story in mediis rebus in Latin that would have to be in + ablative: in mediis rebus (not in medias res), as the point of departure, from which the story begins, is already inside the argument at hand. So saying that the Odyssey begins in medias res would a corruption of the Latin. It would have to be: The Odyssey begins in mediis rebus. We can however say that Homer, in his epic story, takes/drags the reader in medias res, as in he drags the reader from the outside right into the story. I hope I make myself clear. Those with proficiency in languages with case systems (German, Russian etc.) will know what I mean.

Since I guess nobody will actually care about this grammatical detail in the Latin, indiscriminately using the in + accusative even though in + ablative is ment, I suggest merely pointing out this corruption in the usage of the term by English speakers. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Aegryspes (talk • contribs) 13:31, 19 May 2015 (UTC)
 * You're quite right, in medias res literally means "into the middle things", that is, skipping the exposition (the opening stuff) and jumping directly into the action (the middle stuff). "In the middle things" would be in mediis rebus, "in the middle of things" would be in medio rerum and "in the middles of things" would be in mediis rerum. So it's clearly also not about "the middle of things" as in "the middle of the action", but about "the middle things" as in "the middle part of the story, between the exposition and the conclusion". The literal translation given in the lead is therefore wrong. In other locations in the article a less literal translation may be acceptable. PiusImpavidus (talk) 12:06, 8 July 2015 (UTC)


 * I do not think the preceding comments are wholly correct. In the Latin idiom in mediis rebus meant in the middle of things, and I do not think in mediis rerum or in medio rerum would ever be found. Compare per summa gramina (Virgil), over the top of the grass, not per summum graminum. Also I think it is all right to begin into things, using in + accusative, eg incipere in medias res.

A related point, put to me by a notable scholar, is that epics begin with an accusative, this perhaps being a way of helping to start in medias res. Seadowns (talk) 12:04, 20 October 2018 (UTC) Also, since Aegryspes above mentions Russian, I would point out that the last words in Pushkin's poem the Poison Tree are accusative, where one might have expected the prepositional, rather perhaps as in the Latin idiom. Seadowns (talk) 12:19, 20 October 2018 (UTC)

A bit of cleanup
I'm deleting the "what it is not" section. It is un-encyclopedic, as it seems to be directed more as advice for the reader than information. It doesn't appear to serve any real purpose either. Tamwin (talk) 19:38, 8 December 2016 (UTC)
 * I've also tagged the video game section, which is interesting but unsourced. Tamwin (talk) 19:44, 8 December 2016 (UTC)

"Of" things
Why is this always translated as "in the middle of things" rather than "in the middle things"? Literally, "into the middle of things" would be "in medium rerum". TomS TDotO (talk) 21:09, 12 May 2019 (UTC)