Talk:International System of Units/Archives/09/2013

Meaning of "special names"
The GA reviewer seems to want an explanation of the term "special names". The meaning seems obvious to me: one of the usual meanings of the word "special"; i.e. these derived units have their own names (like "newton") which are, for instance, not based on the names of the base units. See The meaning seems obvious to me in context, and I would feel silly adding something so obvious, but what do others think? Would it make sense to explain the meaning of "special" in a footnote? Of course, putting it in such explicit terms also risks slightly altering the meaning. --Boson (talk) 23:16, 22 August 2013 (UTC)
 * http://www.bipm.org/en/si/si_brochure/chapter2/2-2/2-2-2.html
 * http://www.bipm.org/en/si/si_brochure/chapter2/2-2/table3.html
 * The last paragraph of the section "Metre Convention" explains that French is the official language of the SI Brochure. The section also has a short table cataloguing words that might be used a an unusual way. What more can I do without indulging in WP:SYN or WP:OR? Martinvl (talk) 06:46, 23 August 2013 (UTC)
 * I understand entirely that the original was written in French, but that is no excuse for unclear English here - is it? Presumably someone who speaks English understands what the French meant in the SI brochure. "Special" is ambiguous in English, but presumably the French original is less so. In English "special", as an adjective, has several different meanings, including: distinguished, better than others of its kind, reserved for a particular purpose, not usual and primary. I believe that if we are to use that term, we need to introduce it first by explaining what is meant by it, particularly for those readers who do not understand the franglais, and its nuances as used by the SI. Example: "Some derived units have been given what are known as special names to make them easier to express. For example the unit of electrical conductance - kg⋅m2⋅s&minus;2⋅A&minus;1 - is known as the siemens." FishGF (talk) 19:04, 23 August 2013 (UTC)
 * User:FishGF is exceeding his brief as a reviewer by getting this deeply involved in the issue. At this stage it is clear that there is a dispiute and this should be flagged for a third party to arbitrate before the review is closed. Martinvl (talk) 22:17, 23 August 2013 (UTC)
 * What issue? I raised a concern that "special" is ambiguous in the context in which it is used, and suggested that is could be made much clearer very simply. Your apparent explanation that it is because it is a translation from French does nit excuse the ambiguity - or if you disagree, please clarify. FishGF (talk) 19:56, 26 August 2013 (UTC)


 * Perhaps we could just make that 'Some derived units have been given their own names (referred to as "special names"). For example the unit of electrical conductance - kg⋅m2⋅s&minus;2⋅A&minus;1 - is known as the siemens.' I don't think we want to claim that we know the reason - unless a source can be provided.--Boson (talk) 22:40, 26 August 2013 (UTC)


 * That seems like a good way to put it. Jc3s5h (talk) 23:54, 26 August 2013 (UTC)


 * The reason I mentioned is that given in the SI brochure. The first sentence of the third paragraph in section 1.4 gives: "Some of the coherent derived units in the SI are given special names,* to simplify their expression (see Section 2.2.2)." FishGF (talk) 15:59, 27 August 2013 (UTC)


 * I have traced the term "special names" back to Maxwell's original paper. He gave no further explanation.  To do so would be to  second-guess his thoughts on the matter. Martinvl (talk) 15:23, 29 August 2013 (UTC)


 * That raises 2 questions: 1. How do you know that is the origin of the term? 2. He may have given no further explanation in the primary source, so why not search out learned opinion in secondary sources to help clarify it? Even the SI brochure manages to clarify it by saying it is to make the derived units easier to express. FishGF (talk) 21:15, 29 August 2013 (UTC)