Talk:Iskandar Ali Mirza

Khalidkhoso 21:49, 14 February 2007 (UTC)

FACTS

 * It is a fact that Iskander Mirza was responsible for the end of democracy in Pakistan.


 * And it is also a fact that he was related to Mir Jafar. Is it a hidden thing? On wikipedia facts can not be deleted. If somebody has another opinion, he can discus it here.

Syed with Common Sense —Preceding unsigned comment added by Syed with Common Sense (talk • contribs) 19:14, 11 October 2007 (UTC)


 * Any evidence to show these claims? Video/photo would be good. Mwahcysl (talk) 15:09, 7 October 2008 (UTC)

Not Direct relationship read: http://www.4dw.net/royalark/India4/murshid14.htm —Preceding unsigned comment added by HumayunMirzajr (talk • contribs) 13:49, 12 October 2007 (UTC)

Wrong again for the responsibilty part.. I can post the evidence on wikpipedia about that part —Preceding unsigned comment added by HumayunMirzajr (talk • contribs) 13:52, 12 October 2007 (UTC)


 * We had a discussion on this matter on Talk:Mir Jafar, as well. It seems fairly clear from the 4dw.net site that HumayunMirzajr gave that Iskander Mirza is a descendant of Mir Jafar, though he may not be a "direct" descendant.  Unfortunately, there seems to be a conflict of interest on this, because Humayun is related to the subject of this article, and it seems that his family would prefer that the relationship between Mir Jafar and Iskander Mirza not be in the article.  I urge editors without a personal stake in this to make edits that ensure the verifiability, accuracy, and relevance of this article. kmccoy (talk) 07:56, 13 October 2007 (UTC)


 * Being related to Mir Jafar (considered in the same league as Quisling of WW2) is not something to be proud of, but in Wikipedia, we need to stick to verifiability rather than personal preference. As you mentioned in Talk:Mir Jafar, the genealogy site clearly shows Iskander Mirza to be a *direct* descendant of Mir Jafar. --Ragib 08:19, 13 October 2007 (UTC)

Being related to Mir jafar is something to be proud of. Read you're history books properly and the truth of what was happenin. HumayunMirzaJR 10:25, 13 October 2007 (UTC)

-

The Kashmir issue was solved in 1958, sadly Ayub Khan took over and betrayed the Pakistani people.

The real story behind Iraq, Iran ,Turkey and Pakistan: A meeting of the Baghdad Pact, July 1958 King Faisal II killed and assasinated by CIA. Shah of Iran 1973 revolution thanks to CIA. Iskander Mirza exiled 1958 by CIA. Adnan Menders Turkish PM false charges by CIA.

Had these countries joined an alliance US wouldnt be the superpower anymore.

True stories being told by great grand son of Iskander Mirza,

Humayun Mirza jr.

Tired of all the false facts and not everyone knowning the truth.

HumayunMirzaJR (talk) 17:50, 12 April 2008 (UTC)

13th or 15th of November, 1899?
1899 article says he was born on November 15th, Article says 13th. Do we even have a reference? 68.205.182.89 (talk) 00:29, 23 September 2008 (UTC)

I have his death certificate and birth certificate... anyway The article needs work... He never intended to stay in office and in his speech he did say The Army and I would stay for the shortest period till the country stabilizes. Its hopeless to edit his article on wikipedia, do your homeworks before editing the article. Refrences are available: Dawn NewsPaper. From Plassey to Pakistan - Humayun Mirza. British Library in London. Karachi Library. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 116.71.55.79 (talk) 07:07, 10 May 2009 (UTC)

/* Military Coup D'état */ sources: Pakistan Government, British Museum, private documents and letters, Ahmad Salim...
Please dont revert the information and call it nonsense if you do so you're wrong. All this information has been sourced. Sources: Ahmad Salim. British National Museum of Library. Karachi Library. Karachi University, achieves. From Plassey to Pakistan. Private Documents ( Secondary Source) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 116.71.60.7 (talk) 13:40, 13 May 2009 (UTC) Research has been done —Preceding unsigned comment added by 116.71.60.7 (talk) 13:33, 13 May 2009 (UTC) Source: Secondary sources of private collections: →Morning News : Friday November 14 1969: →Maj-Gen Iskander Mirza a dutiful administrator by Sir Alec Douglas-Home. →CIA approached Mirza for joint Defence. Malik Ghulam Jihani Ex-MNA, published in Dawn News Paper of Lahore, 1970. →The leader Saturday November 15, 1969. Title: Two Faces of Iskander Mirza, by Sultan Ahmed. →The Leader again from November,15 1969 to December 19, 1969. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 116.71.60.7 (talk) 13:47, 13 May 2009 (UTC)

Speech
Dawn News Paper 1958: Extracts: I am told democracy controls itself, but I have yet to see it controlling itself here. Democracy is a process of trials and errors. The country was being led into chaos and ruin by unscrupulous political groups who thought more of their factional interests than the good of Pakistan so the Army responded to the Governor General's appeal for support. Of course I shall be unpopular among our professional politicians by saying this but Pakistan is obviously not yet ripe for practice of democracy as the term is understood in Britain or America. Mere elections in the country will not solve the problem if the present set-up of politicians alone are to be returned to the Assemblies. there is need for new blood and honest men - men of few words but more action. it has been my good fortune since the inception of Pakistan to have the closet association with the armed forces... The Army wishes to get out of politics as as soon as a proper election can be held. i hope you not find me here in 18 month's time. I shall run Martial Law for the shortest duration possible. 116.71.60.7 (talk) 13:54, 13 May 2009 (UTC)

These are facts and sources which are reliable, if you cant accept these facts then I have no idea what to say.... Danger^Mouse (talk) 15:34, 13 May 2009 (UTC)

Coup d'état
By 1958, realising that the 1956 Constitution was contributing to political instability, Mirza declared martial law on 7 October with the view to introducing a new constitution "more suited to the genius of the Pakistani people" in November. However, it is disputed that even though, he became the first President of Pakistan under the new constitution, he was not very fond of it. He is quoted in the book, Shahabnama [1], holding the constitution in his hand, and referring it as a "trashy book." Mirza's efforts and energies, as Shahab relates, were geared to one principal purpose, his continuation in office. Unfortunately Shahab was wrong, Mirza in his speech in 1958 he did state that for the best interest of the country the army would remain in control at the shortest possible time, and later in his interview with Mr.Ispahany he did state this and defended himself, in his book 'From Plassey to Pakistan' by his sons all the false allegations have been quoted and proven wrong. The instabality in the country led to the declaration of Martial Law on 7 October 1958. He appointed the commander-in-chief of the Pakistan Army, Ayub Khan, as the martial law administrator. According to Ahmad Salim and The National Library of Karachi, The Martial law was the right thing to do, as the constitution needed literacy to be understood, unfortunately as Dr.Khan Sahab stated the literacy rate in the newly born state Islamic Republic of Pakistan was only 36-40% the rest of the country were undercoated therefore the new constitution led to the confusion of the people and government of Pakistan. For the first time after Jinnah's death, with the introduction of the Martial Law the government had become united and they were working towards establishing Pakistan, but unfortunately the CIA and the American's didn't want Pakistan to develop and Ayub Khan was ordered to replace Iskander Mirza for the best interest of the Americans, the documents are in a classified files in the British National Museum, in London. Ayub Khan sent commanders about midnight to the Presidential House and Mirza was threatened either to Resign or loose his life. The commanders seeing Mirza marrying Nahid and betraying his family they thought Ayub Khan was right and he would betray the Army and people of Pakistan by ordering Martial Law. Less than three weeks into martial law he was ushered out of the Presidential Palace, first to Quetta and then to exile in London. He thus precipitated his departure from the Office of President rather than prolong his tenure. Ayub Khan declared himself President on 27 October after a bloodless coup d'état.

There are a number of unverified claims in the section. Some of the content is POV of a particular person and unsuitable for an encyclopaedia. (Who is this Shahab, anyway and why is his opinion encyclopaedic fact) This section needs to be trimmed.--Shahab (talk) 11:48, 14 July 2009 (UTC)

On Behalf of Mr.Buyers
He has asked me to revert all the edits made by his name, kindly stop using his name and his website isn't exactly PUBLIC DOMAIN, it's done by complete original research and lots of work! Danger^Mouse (talk) 12:48, 20 November 2009 (UTC)


 * First of all, how do we believe that's true? Next, even if Mr. Buyers copyrights his info, referring to that is not a copyright violation. Unless someone copies content from his website verbatim, it is perfectly ok to mention that Iskander Mirza is a descendant of Mir Zafar, and cite Mr. Buyers' site, regardless of whether he allows it or not. I have reverted your edit (though didn't restore the Buyers reference, but we have a different reference for the information). --Ragib (talk) 22:18, 20 November 2009 (UTC)

Family
The couple had three children. Yasin Mirza, Mahad Mirza, and Jimal Mirza. And eight grand children, Kamid, Kulsoom, Salman, Burham, Muhammad, Rif'at, Meriam, and Yasin Mirza II. He has only 4 great grandchildren, Fareed, Abdullah, Asad, Humza whom all live in the United States, this is absolute Rubbish, my great grand father has more grand children, and no children from Naheed khanom.

Evidence on From Plassey to Pakistan.

i) Major-General H.E. Sahibzada Sayyid Iskander 'Ali Mirza [Baba Sahib], CIE (1.1.1945), OBE (c 8.6.1939). b. at Bombay, 13th November 1899 (s/o Dilshad Begum), educ. Nawab Bahadur Institution, Murshidabad, Elphinstone Coll, Bombay (BA 1918), and RMC Sandhurst. Cmsnd as 2nd-Lieut British Army 16/7/1920, attached 2nd Btn, Cameronians, served Khodad Khel Operations 1921 and Waziristan 1924, trsnf 17th Poona Horse (Queen Victoria's Own), IA 1924, joined Indian Political Service 1926, Asst Cmsnr Abbottabad 1926-1928, Bannu 1928-1930, Nowshera 1930-1933, and Tank 1933, Dep Cmsnr Hazara 1933-1936 & Marda 1936-1938, Political Agent Khyber 1938-1940, Dep Cmsnr Peshawar & Political Agent to the Mohmands 1940, Political Agent Orissa States 1945-1946, Joint Defence Sec India 1946-1947, Defence Sec Pakistan 1947-1954, Governor of East Pakistan 1954, Minister for the Interior & Frontier Regions 1954-1955, Governor-General of Pakistan 1955-1956, and first Presdt. of Pakistan 1956. Left Karachi after the military coup d'etat in 1958. Rcvd: IGSM, Silver Jubilee (1935), and Coron. (1937, 1953), and Pakistan Independence (1950) medals, Grand Collar of the Order of Pahlavi of Iran (1.11.1956), the Order of the Supreme Sun 1st class of Afghanistan (7.8.1956), etc. m. (first) 24th November 1922, Rifa'at Begum (b. 1907; d. at Sibley Memorial Hospital, Washington DC, USA, 23rd March 1967, bur. Bagh Khorrasan, Karachi), daughter of Mirza Muhammad, Amin ul-Tujjar, of Shiraz, in Persia. m. (second) at Karachi, October 1954, Nahid Begum (b. 1914), former wife of Colonel Afkhamy, sometime Iranian Defence attaché at Karachi, daughter of Amir Teymour Katali. He d. at London, 13th November 1969 (bur. Zahedi Mausoleum, Tehran, Iran) having had issue, two sons and four daughters: (1) Sayyid Humayun Mirza. b. at Poona, 9th December 1928 (d/o Rifaat Begum), educ. Doon Sch., Dehra Dun, Cambridge Univ, Chartered Insurance Inst., London and Harvard Univ (MBA 1958). Resident Inspector for Alliance Insurance Co, Karachi 1953-1954, Dir of Insurance PIDC 1954-1956, Ops Mngr World Bank 1958, retd 1988. Author "From Plassey to Pakistan". m. (first) at Conifer Ledges, Portland, Maine, USA, October 1954 (div. 1962), Josephine Wing Hildreth (b. at Portland, Maine, USA), elder daughter of The Hon Horace A. Hildreth, sometime Governor of Maine and US Ambassador to Pakistan. m. (second) at Karachi, Pakistan, March 1964 (div. 1970), Shahnaz Begum (b. 1945), twin daughter of Mirza Abbas. m. (third) at the Iranian Embassy, Washington DC, USA, May 1976, Marilia Cleci Begum (b. 17th July 1949), daughter of Jose Mandelli, sometime Senator and Mayor of Erexim, Rio Grande State, Brazil. He had issue, one son and two daughters: (a) Sayyid Enver Lawrence Mirza. b. at Karachi, Pakistan, August 1955 (s/o Josephine). He d. at Karachi, Pakistan, 3rd June 1956 (bur. Pakistan Air Force Cemetery, Peshawar, alongside his uncle). (a) Zareen Taj. b. at Boston, Massachusetts, USA, 25th February 1957 (d/o Josephine). (c) Samia. b. at Washington DC, 19th September 1966 (d/o Shahnaz), educ. Rollins Coll., Washington DC. m. 1997, Charles Augustus Krepp III. She has issue, two sons and one daughter. (2) Sayyid Enver 'Ali Mirza. b. at Poona, 26th Nobvember 1933, educ. Doon Sch., Dehra Dun. Cadet RPAF. He was k. in a flying accident, at Peshawar, 4th June 1953 (bur. Pakistan Air Force Cemetery, Peshawar). (1) Nur Jahan Begum. b. at Poona, 25th December 1924 (d/o Rifaat Begum). m. Mahmud Mirza, son of Mirza Abbas, of Bangalore. She d. at Karachi, Pakistan, 1983, having had issue, two sons and two daughtersi. (2) Zeenat Jahan Mirza. b. at Poona, 13th August 1929. (3) Fakhri Begum. b. at Poona, 4th October 1930. m. at Karachi, Pakistan, 1959, Sayyid Asad 'Ali [Sheru] (d. at Karachi, February 1999), son of Sayyid Amjad 'Ali. She had issue, one son and one daughter. (4) Shah Taj Begum. b. at Nowshera, 19th December 1932. m. Sayyid Muhammad Iqbal Imam (d. 1986). She had issue, three daughters. Danger^Mouse (talk) 18:45, 4 September 2013 (UTC)

Avoid drama please
18:35, 17 November 2013‎ Shenme (talk | contribs)‎. . (37,203 bytes) (-2)‎. . (restored edit reverted without explanation by now 'retired' editor "brutally backed fire" -> "brutally backfired") There is no such thing in the book or any other books, its a personal opinion, and is leading to edit conflict. See my contributions on this article. Danger^Mouse (talk) 18:27, 18 November 2013 (UTC)

Military career
In contrast to the claim that Iskander Mirza resigned his commission in 1926 to join the Indian Political Service, he seems to have continued his army service after that date - there is a clear record of his promotions and attachments in the London Gazette after 1926 and his OBE citation in 1939 lists him as a Major.Aumnamahashiva (talk) 16:18, 10 June 2015 (UTC)

Grave
/* Post-presidency and death */ The grave was demolished and is made into a book store owned by the Iranian regime, I've been there seen it, and wasn't allowed to take pictures as he was buried next to Zahedi. (I am his great grand son). I tried to take pictures in 2007, but was stopped by the basij. I met few people they said we can remove the tiles for you to take pictures, but you need authorization from the Cultural Ministry and Basji what not. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fazlollah_Zahedi and my great grand father are buried next to each other. After the revolution they made it into warehouse, later into a stationary shop owned by the educational ministry. The shop is few blocks away from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shah-Abdol-Azim_shrine

Danger^Mouse (talk) 18:12, 6 August 2015 (UTC)

External links modified
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Power struggle with Ayub Khan
I have moved to here from the article the text inserted by :

"In an attempt to relieve Ayub Khan from his commission, President Mirza went on to make a bold move by undercutting Ayub's rival in the army, navy, marines, and air force by co-opting military officers in his favors. Informed of President Mirza's chicanery,"

I have moved it because it is written in such poor English as to be nearly unintelligible, it is not supported by the cited source, and it is unencyclopedic detail. (It also links to a WP:DAB page and misuses rp, but those errors were not factors in its removal.) More or less the same text has been challenged and removed before, on 16 April 2017, for the same reasons:

"In an attempt to dismiss General Ayub Khan from his military commission, President Mirza made a bold move by undercutting Ayub Khan's rivals within the army, navy, marines, and the air force into his support but it was unsuccessful when Ayub Khan was informed of Mirza's chicanery."

My best guess is that this is a failed attempt to paraphrase a few sentences from page 149 of Hiro's The Longest August:

"When he and Ayub Khan could not work out the modalities of power sharing, Mirza unilaterally appointed Ayub Khan prime minister and selected a cabinet of technocrats for him. Ayub Khan protested Mirza's high-handedness. An arch manipulator, Mirza tried to gain support of Ayub Khan's rivals within the military. Informed of Mirza's chicanery,"

Encyclopedias such as Wikipedia summarize sources. The gist is that Ayub Khan and Mirza were in powerful positions. Unable to agree on how to share power, they jockeyed for position. Wikipedia doesn't need to go into every detail of the power struggle, and per WP:NPOV should not be stating motives or characterizing actions without attributing those opinions. In the end, Ayub Khan used force to seize full control, and that is what the text should cut to. --Worldbruce (talk) 17:17, 2 February 2018 (UTC)

Infobox image
Please overwrite the image in the infobox with this image as the quality and resolution is much better. Thanks.  Peter Ormond &#128172;  22:20, 20 August 2021 (UTC)

wrong spelling of its Iskander

 * See - The spelling is wrong its Iskander Mirza see From Plassey to Pakistan by his son Humayun Mirza — Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.71.106.110 (talk) 14:01, 18 October 2023 (UTC)