Talk:Isle of Man/Archive 1

This is from: Constitutional FAQ on the Manx Govermnent Website

Q Is the Isle of Man part of the European Union? A No the Isle of Man is not part of the European Union but has a special relationship set out in Protocol 3 of the Act of Accession, annexed to the Treaty of Accession 1972, by which the United Kingdom became a member of the EEC. Under the above Protocol, the Isle of Man is part of the customs territory of the Union and it follows that the Common Customs Tariff, levies and other agricultural import measures apply to trade between the Isle of Man and non-member countries and that there is free movement of goods in trade between the Isle of Man and the Union as regards industrial and agricultural products.

I think Ellan Vannin is in the European Union, though European law has a restricted effect dues to the act of accession. Might be worth updating. Francis Davey

I think Iceland also claims to have the oldest parliament. Anyone know which is older?

The Iceland parliament dates to 980 CE. I don't know the date for Isle of Man but probably newer?

The Tynwald bills itself as the oldest continuous parliament and had it millenium celebration in 1979. Apparently this means the Icelandic parliament is "discontinuous"? The Althing was founded in 930 but one website talks about the restoration of parliament in 1845. --rmhermen

Correct. The Icelandic Althing is older, but was disbanded from 1800 to 1843. There's a decent discussion of the comings and goings of the Althing on Wikipedia's Iceland/History page. -- Paul Drye

I would recommend an explanation of the flag design, because that is seriously one wacked-up flag. -Branddobbe

It's the Triskellion, representing the arts.--Cheif 21:55, 29 April 2006 (UTC)


 * Representing the arts?? Explain please. I was under the impression it represents the Isle of Man. I do know it's found on the Island's sword of state dating back to the thirteenth century and derives from an ancient celtic symbol possibly symbolising the sun. 194.82.121.38 00:30, 4 June 2006 (UTC).


 * Flagspot Provides useful background and history of the IOM flag.

What history page?
There is a link to History of the Isle of Man in the main section but this just redirects back to the main article. Should it be removed?

Sovereignty
I didn't know about its sovereignty status. Could we liken it to Monaco -> France? [-- 80.58.3.239 ]


 * I think it's more like France and Martinique, BICBW.
 * James F. (talk) 11:38, 23 Sep 2004 (UTC)


 * No, Martinique is an integral department of the French Republic. I think the status of IoM is adequately explained in article Crown dependency.
 * Man vyi 12:01, Sep 23, 2004 (UTC)

Grammar;

on the Triskelion bit - "Counter-clockwise" is not English, the correct word is "Anti-clockwise".

Macdaddy

Mann and the UK
Is their a sense in which the UK is itself is a crown dependency? Or: is there another sense in which Mann might have co-equal status with the UK? Laurel Bush 16:42, 25 Apr 2005 (UTC).


 * I don't think so. The UK of GB&NI is a sovereign nation with a constitutional monarch and a government. The IOM is a crown dependency in that some aspects of its affairs are handled by the Crown using the UK government (principally defence and foreign affairs) on behalf of the government of the Isle of Man rather than the Manx government doing it themselves. The Isle of Man could theoretically become an independent country either maintaining the connection to the crown or else becoming a republic. Then they would have to pick up and do all those extra functions which are currently performed (for a price) by the UK government. Dabbler 17:53, 25 Apr 2005 (UTC)

BBC and Man
There's been a bit of reverting going on in the culture section over whether or not the BBC mentions the Isle of Man in their weather forecast. Can anyone give a definitive answer? (I for one don't think this should be in the "Culture" section at all.) Seabhcán 11:08, 6 Jun 2005 (UTC)

The weather for the Isle of Man is on the BBC's website http://www.bbc.co.uk/weather/5day.shtml?id=2190

BBC North West Today/Tonight forcasts cover the Isle of Man, and mention it regularly. The programmes feature news from Man on a regular basis

I agree that it shouldn't be in the Culture section - I've moved it to the Communications on the Isle of Man page. It's not strictly true to say that the BBC doesn't provide services to the Island because it isn't part of the UK, as Jersey and Guernsey do have their own BBC local radio stations, and the Channel Islands now has a regional BBC TV news programme instead of that for BBC South West. The BBC Charter has always applied to the Channel Islands and the Isle of Man. Quiensabe 18:52 UTC 28 Jun 2005


 * But people do pay the full price for a license and not receive the same as other regions such as a regional radio station or news program. The Isle of Man is included in BBC NW reports but should have its own program if its residents are paying for the services. --Localzuk 13:53, 15 December 2005 (UTC)

Manx Communist Party
I can find no information about this organisation which allegedly existed in Mannin. Does anyone have information on it? Everton 13:06, 16 Jun 2005 (UTC)

There is no such thing.

Commonwealth
The Isle of Man is not a member of the (formerly British) Commonwealth in its own right. The Chief Minister, for example, doesn't attend Commonwealth Heads of Government Meetings, but it does participate in things like the Commonwealth Parliamentary Association and the Commonwealth Games.

Quiensabe 28 Jun 2005 18:27 UTC

Jeceris vs. Ieceris
Although it may be more correct Latin to say Ieceris, the official heraldic description of the motto of the Isle of Man on this Isle of Man government site, http://www.gov.im/isleofman/facts.xml#coat, is spelled Jeceris. Dabbler 01:56, 26 August 2005 (UTC)
 * I think you will find it is equally correct to use either depending on when you learnt Latin. In modern schools it a j is used not an i.  It is just a matter of preference, although j is more common these days.Manxy3 14:13, 28 February 2006 (UTC)

WikiPEDIA
"The Isle of Man has a rich cultural heritage" sounds like a line out of a travel agent's brochure, not an encyclopedia. Does any other article say anything along the lines of "these folks have a very limited cultural heritage", or implies so by the aforementioned superlative's absence? By the way, even when I see this kind of writing in a travel agent's brochure I make a face. I hereby name this kind of writing The Mark of the Twelve Year Old's "What I've Done this Summer". Zvi Alon 15:03, 13 September 2005 (UTC)

Discrepency
The Crown dependency article claims the Crown dependencies, including the Isle of Man, have associate membership in the EU, however, the article on Isle of Man claims it is neither a member, nor an associate member of the EU. Can anyone cite a definite source so that we may resolve this discrepency one way or the other? Johntex\talk 20:46, 13 September 2005 (UTC)

As well as the Manx Government link at the top of this page, there are some articles on the pages of Cains, a Manx law firm (Cains Advocates). One archived article includes this statement under their analysis of the relationship of the British Overseas Islands (BOI) with the EU:

"It is important to stress the BOI are not part of the EU, or even associate members of it. The BOI receive no grant or subsidy from the EU. Their relationship is by way of being signatories to Protocol three of the UK Act of Accession, which merely gives the BOI right of access for their goods to the EU, but not services (and BOI are service led economies). Thus the BOI have no right to market their retail financial services within the EU."


 * Cains Article on British Overseas Islands

It's interesting to note that their market access excludes services, which specifically means that Man is not part of the Single European Market.

Nelson50 08:38, 14 September 2005 (UTC)

Style Suggestions
"The head of state is currently HM The Queen"

I'm not familiar with the preferred usage in the British Isles/Isle of Man, but wouldn't "Her Majesty The Queen" read better?

"...and the abolition of indirectly elected Conseillers in Guernsey"

Is Conseillers the accepted spelling? Shouldn't it be councillors (or maybe counsellors)? Mbwardle 01:44, 15 November 2005 (UTC)


 * Conseillers is Norman French which is what they often use in Guernsey, and HM The Queen is a fairly common abbreviation, just as the President of the United States can be abbreviated as POTUS. Dabbler 01:55, 15 November 2005 (UTC)
 * Conseiller is French rather than Norman, and like Douzenier, the French title is always used in English - see for example the Reform (Replacement of Conseillers) (Guernsey) Law, 1998 which abolished the post of Conseiller. Man vyi 07:08, 15 November 2005 (UTC)

Moved comment to bottom of page
Has anyone mentioned that Isle of Man sounds hilariously like I Love Men? Surely this deserves documentation.. El Rilstix
 * Hardly very notable, but I have seen cheap tourist souvenirs with "I (heart shape) Man" on them, like the "I love New York" slogan. Dabbler 17:35, 31 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Haha, classic. --'stix
 * The poet John Hegley wondered if anyone has made a joke about 'entering Douglas' before :) Btw, as a Manxie I'm very impressed with the info on this page. Much more than I know!

Removed links to sheadings
I have removed links to pages for sheadings as the information that will cover these is minimal and is partly covered in the main article (this one) and should also partly be covered in the parish articles.--Localzuk 13:49, 15 December 2005 (UTC)

Common Travel Area
The article states:

"Travel to the Isle of Man is regulated by the local government laws. Visitors from countries who require a UK visa may also require a special Manx visa, obtainable from a British diplomatic mission."

Does anyone have a reference for this? The Isle of Man is part of the Common Travel Area and may not operate frontier controls on arrivals from the United Kingdom. Wouldn't a normal British visa be sufficient.

It's understood that a work permit is needed to work on the Island. JAJ 03:57, 12 February 2006 (UTC)


 * A UK visa is not sufficient in itself for travel to Jersey, and I'd assume the situation is the same for the other Crown Dependencies. Here are a couple of pertinent snippets from DIRECTIONS OF THE LIEUTENANT-GOVERNOR:


 * A person who is neither a British citizen nor a Commonwealth citizen with the right of abode nor an EEA national or the family member of such a national who would be entitled to enter or remain in the Bailiwick of Jersey by virtue of Section 7 of the Immigration Act 1988 as extended to the Bailiwick of Jersey requires leave to enter the Bailiwick of Jersey.


 * Subject to paragraph 2 below, persons who need a visa for the Bailiwick of Jersey are foreign nationals, Commonwealth citizens, stateless persons and other holders of non-national documents specified in Appendix 1 to the United Kingdom Statement of Changes in the Immigration Rules as amended from time to time.


 * Man vyi 18:02, 12 February 2006 (UTC)
 * The Isle of Man differs from Jersey though. IIRC you need a passport to travel from jersey to the uk. UK-IOM travel does not need this. Contacting the IOM govt. on this issue might be the best bet. -Localzuk (talk) 18:23, 12 February 2006 (UTC)


 * As far as I know you don't need a passport to travel between Jersey and the United Kingdom either.  The question is does Jersey accept standard UK visas.   JAJ 18:47, 12 February 2006 (UTC)


 * Hmm. From when I've travelled between Jersey and UK I've needed my passport (to enter the UK anyway). I'll contact the IOM govt and see what they say. -Localzuk (talk) 18:56, 12 February 2006 (UTC)


 * Perhaps I can answer my own question from Annex 1.6 to the Diplomatic Service Procedures - Entry Clearance JAJ 20:41, 12 February 2006 (UTC)


 * Well, I have a reply from the Passport/Immigrations Office of the Isle of Man Government stating "You do not need a separate visa to visit the Isle of Man, as long as you have a UK entry clearance visa you can travel here." I know it is Original Research but it might be good to find a Manx government site with this on. I'll reply and see if there is one.-Localzuk (talk) 17:56, 14 February 2006 (UTC)


 * It is not correct to say that members of the Common Travel Area 'may not operate frontier controls on arrivals from the United Kingdom'. The Republic of Ireland is part of the Common Travel Area and opperates an entirely seperate visa system from the UK.


 * Last year, when I was researching the Common Travel Area article I e-mailed the Manx governement asking a few questions. Angela Collings kindly replied and gave very useful answers. Here is the reply to your question:


 * Q: Am I correct that many visitors to the island require a special visa, separate from a UK visa, but obtainable from a UK Embassy? (For example a Russian tourist would require both a UK visa and a Man visa)


 * A: Although the Isle of Man is not part of the UK if a person has a valid visa for the UK then that would allow them to visit the Isle of Man without a further visa.   However if a person wanted to come specifically to the Isle of Man then they do have to apply at a British Embassy for a visa or entry clearance and the Embassy would then refer the matter to us for our decision.    Any visa then granted would also allow the person to transit the UK to reach the Isle of Man.


 * As the Isle of Man is within the Common Travel Area (CTA) (comprising the UK, Channel Islands, Isle of Man and the Republic of Ireland) there are no Immigration Controls exercised at the ports as all flights and ferries come from with the CTA.   However, any person arriving from the Republic of Ireland who has not travelled via the UK would be expected to be in possession of a valid visa. 


 * Seabhcán 14:28, 28 February 2006 (UTC)

Constitutional Monarchy
Someone has removed the reference to the Isle of Man being a constitutional monarchy, stating that there is no King or Queen of Mann. There is a Lord of Mann though, so does that count? JAJ 22:26, 4 March 2006 (UTC)


 * Historically there were Kings of Mann, but in deference to the overlord King or England, they adjusted their title to Lord of Mann. Monarchy does not mean rule by a King (or Queen) it means rule by one person. There are constitutional monarchies that are not ruled by people titled as Kings or Queens, for example Monaco or Luxembourg. Dabbler 23:56, 4 March 2006 (UTC)

Coat of Arms
The coat-of-arms is a beautiful one; I haven't seen many with a kestrel and a raven.--Cheif 21:59, 29 April 2006 (UTC)

I'm still in the dark about the coroner
This article mentions the coroner, but doesn't really explain his/her role, beyond saying that he/she is not a medical examiner, pointing instead to the coroner article. However the coroner article doesn't explain the Manx coroner's role either. Some more detail would be useful here.

Ireneshusband 07:01, 21 May 2006 (UTC)

Bit of bother in the infobox
Could someone correct the "largest city" link from redlinked Demographics of Isle of Man to the correct Demographics of the Isle of Man. Skinnyweed 23:28, 21 May 2006 (UTC)

Speed limit?
Can someone please confirm that the Isle of Man still has no upper speed limit on the roads outside of towns?
 * Yes. This is still true. There have been many discussions about this though with ideas of introducing such a speed limit.-Localzuk (talk) 16:26, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

GDP
The infobox states:

'' - Total 	$2.113 billion (182nd) - Per capita 	$28,500 (29th)''

But when looking at the 2 linked pages the Isle of Man appears on neither. Should we not get rid of the links as neither are actually correct? -Localzuk (talk) 09:35, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

Cammag
Could we have some more information about the sport of Cammag please? Such as objectives of the game, "rules" (I know it was said there are none, but there have to be some basics, not just some guys beating bits of cork!)
 * Would it be like Camogie? Man vyi 18:20, 21 July 2006 (UTC)
 * No, it seems to be a lot less organised! But thanks for the link anyway