Talk:Ivan Mihailov

General cleanup

 * The follow up sections do not elaborate on why some consider him Macedonian in the Republic of Macedonia (i.e. quotes from Mihailov expressing pro-Macedonian views have been removed).
 * Weasel words: "but the scholars agreed that he was a defender of the statement...".
 * The tone of the article gives the impression that he had always regarded himself Bulgarian without exception.
 * The quotes given make the article unbalanced. The quotes given are all of him expressing pro-Bulgarian views while his previously apparent pro-Macedonian views are not represented.
 * Judging by their edits, the users Jingiby and AKeckarov (and possibly myself) have a conflict of interest here. An "outsider" needs to review all of the recent edits and attempt to bring the article to NPOV standards.

--AimLook (talk) 04:25, 29 December 2007 (UTC)--AimLook (talk) 04:17, 29 December 2007 (UTC)


 * You are the first editor stating such strange things, without any proves about them! Yow have pushed some "citations" without any link or source to verifying them and before that you have deleted the sourced citations that everybody could check! If you have verifiable and sourced info about Mihaylov, you are free to put it in the article, but if you have not, please do not vandalise it! Regards! Jingby (talk) 07:35, 29 December 2007 (UTC)

The following is an excerpt from one of the last interviews of Mihailov. AN interview which he gives to a Macedonian journalist:

"B.V.: Today people ask whether Vancho Mihaylov is alive. Many young Macedonians say that Vancho Mihaylov is the greatest Macedonian. They do not agree with the statement that Vancho Mihaylov is a Bulgarian and that he is the steadiest advocate of Bulgarian ideas in Macedonia. I would not comment on this, but I would ask for your elucidation.

I.M.: Ivan Mihaylov is alive and always active. I often publish – using pen names, or no name at all – both on the pages of Makedonska Tribuna (the organ of the Macedonian patriotic organizations that protect this ideal), and in other newspapers. These specific organizations collected funds to print my memoirs.

In Europe, years ago, I used to publish a newspaper written in four languages, almost 90% of it dedicated to the Macedonian movement and its ideas. The newspaper was called Macedonia.

For a while there was an hour on the radio broadcast in Madrid, done in Standard Bulgarian and in the Bitolya dialect, centered around Macedonia and its efforts for liberation.

I will answer decisively: I am a Bulgarian from Macedonia. At the same time, I have never ignored the geographical name of our country Macedonia. With the geographical name of a Macedonian I have met at least 200 Turks in Asia Minor, when I was kept there (in order not to continue my journey to the West – this was the will of Belgrade and its Balkan allies). Every Turk told me with joy, “I am a Macedonian too.” We can see that the Turks make a clear difference between the geographical and the national name – they said they were Macedonian, but before that they said they were Turks. The young people (some of them at least in Vardar Macedonia) have been taught by other people that Vanche Mihaylov was not a Bulgarian. And they still believe that he is only a Macedonian (by birth). At the same time other people from the great emigrant circles, especially in Bulgaria, as well as in all of Pirin Macedonia, as well as many people from our country of Macedonia, know for sure that Vancho is a clear-cut Bulgarian. I remember my grandfather very well – he died in 1907 when he was almost 80. My grandfather had clear memories of his grandfather, who had been born some time in the first two decades of the eighteenth century. From all of my grandfather’s words and memories about his grandfather I drew the clear conclusion that at the time of Father Paisii the Bulgarian name and conscience with our people were as clear as they are today with me. "

I want to ask the Macedonian editor AimLook the following: After Vanche CLEARLY identifies himself as an ethnic Bulgarian, what are his arguments? The historians in RoM may regard him as a "pro-Bulgarian Macedonian", but the fact that HE HIMSELF IDENTIFIES AS A BULGARIAN IN 1990, LONG AFTER THE YUGOSLAV REPUBLIC OF MACEDONIA IS CREATED AFTER WWII makes all those musings of the Macedonian historians a secondary and not very supported theory. It must be mentioned that he is still considerred Macedonian in RoM, but he considred himself Bulgarian and so did the rest of the world. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.156.109.52 (talk) 04:28, 5 January 2008 (UTC)


 * That's nice, but you really need to cite a reliable source. The official WP policy on persons with disputed ethnicity (disputed between Bulgaria and RoM that is) clearly states that if a person clearly self-identifies as a Bulgarian, then he should be mentioned as Bulgarian. -- L a v e o l  T 14:23, 5 January 2008 (UTC)


 * Your grandfather died in 1907 and you remember him well? I am impressed, as that must make you about 110 years old!1812ahill (talk) 13:19, 24 April 2010 (UTC)

I am Macedonian and only Macedonian, and i will try to give my objective critics. Read this fellow Macedonians: There is no need to dispute someone indentity when he is almost living history and he cleary with no oprresion whatsoever states that he is Bulgarian. Whats that anti-bulgarian rush? The man in intrerview in 1989 1 october states for macedonian journalist that he is bulgarian, further more, Ivan Mihalov dream is now realised. We live in the multietnich Macedonia, when belive it or not someone that worked on Macedonian independence 93 years(altrought he was bulgarian, he wanted macedonian independence) managed to forecast next 20 years. New etnich conflitcs, that happned in 2001, he's statemants were clear, Macedonia should be Switserland on Balkans, it should be multnietnichal to stop 100's of years of ethnich conflicts. We as a Macedonian nation, should pay tribute to this great Bulgarian for having dreams similar to thoose our grandfathers had, for independent Macedonia. And stop thos nonsense dispute over Ivan identity, the man said it : I am bulgarain from Macedonia... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.28.162.219 (talk) 05:10, 31 July 2008 (UTC)

address?
does anyone know the address of vanco mihailov in rome? where he lived. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.28.4.197 (talk) 11:18, 21 December 2008 (UTC)

Awful English
The section about Mihailov's cold war days read like it had been machine-translated. I have done my best to rewrite it insofar as I could make head and tail of the incomprehensible sentances and contradictory statements. However, the are still problems. Could someone with knowledge of the subject and/or Bulgarian (and preferably English too!) re-proofread it and correct as necessary. 1812ahill (talk) 13:11, 24 April 2010 (UTC)

External links modified
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 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20080518232535/http://www.macedoniainfo.com/MacPatrOrg_6.htm to http://www.macedoniainfo.com/MacPatrOrg_6.htm
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20111006202334/http://www.macedoniainfo.com/Independent_Macedonia.htm to http://www.macedoniainfo.com/Independent_Macedonia.htm

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External links modified
Hello fellow Wikipedians,

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 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20071014031124/http://www.macedonobulgarianreview.com/VIDA_BOEVA_BROJ_26.htm to http://www.macedonobulgarianreview.com/VIDA_BOEVA_BROJ_26.htm
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20051016085203/http://www.vest.com.mk/default.asp?id=3372&idg=1&idb=215&rubrika=Revija to http://www.vest.com.mk/default.asp?id=3372&idg=1&idb=215&rubrika=Revija
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20080102161613/http://www.forum.com.mk/Arhiva/Forum37/megaintervju/megaintervju.htm to http://www.forum.com.mk/Arhiva/Forum37/megaintervju/megaintervju.htm
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20071220062207/http://www.manu.edu.mk/departments.htm to http://www.manu.edu.mk/departments.htm

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Vancho Mihailov
I think the source Andrei Roshkovski you have provided is not credible. Andrew Ross is known for his controversial fringe views and might be misleading to the general public and not neutral. I would like to undo the "undo" till we find better sources. What do you think? I am not saying he was not an connected by any means but the question here is to what extent and we need to find better sources. Do you agree? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Kdichev (talk • contribs) 18:03, 20 April 2022 (UTC)
 * Hi, do not delete the text and the source. I will simply provide additional sources, confirming the same info. Jingiby (talk) 18:20, 20 April 2022 (UTC)
 * can you add more sources then, please? Kdichev (talk) 18:46, 20 April 2022 (UTC)
 * Yes, I do this at the moment. Jingiby (talk) 18:52, 20 April 2022 (UTC)
 * Is there anything else that is not clear from the introduction or needs an additional source? Jingiby (talk) 15:05, 23 April 2022 (UTC)

Recent move
This man is not referred to as Ivan Mihaylov in very many English language sources (if any). He is consistently referred to as Mihailov. On en WP, we use the common name in English. There was also no WP:RM, which should have occurred before such a potentially contested move. The move should be reversed forthwith, and an RM initiated if considered necessary. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 04:09, 4 February 2023 (UTC)

A quote of his on Independent Macedonia as harmful
I added an information about Mihailov's view that an independent Macedonia cannot be independent because it is a satellite, but even if it gains real independence, it can only be hurtful to Bulgaria, concluding that its "natural place" is in Bulgaria. But the information about this quote of his is from a report by Rayna Drangova to the Bulgarian State Security, about what Mihailov told her at their meeting in Rome. On the one hand I think that the source may not be very safe to conclude that Mihailov meant this - he could have told this to Drangova out of completely different motives. On the other hand, such a view, which still sounds like one he could have had at that time (Mihailov never considered Macedonia to be truly separate from Bulgaria), is an important detail on his views on an independent Macedonia. Идеологист (talk) 12:02, 10 February 2023 (UTC)