Talk:James IV of Scotland

Howard Dean
Always late but worth the wait. If you check the Howard Dean article you will find a link to his family tree that traces back to James IV.

I am slightly suspicious of this unsourced addition by an anonymous user that Howard Dean is descended from James IV. It is not wildly implausible, he must have hundreds of descendants, but is trivia like this encyclopedic? The user might have said which of his children Dean was descended from. I propose to revert if we do not get a reply in a reasonable time. PatGallacher 21:36, 2005 Feb 13 (UTC)

James Stewart, 1st Earl of Moray is attributed to be the illegitimate son of James IV AND James V in the respective Wikipedia articles. It is far more likely that he was the grandson of James IV, not his son. Is a correction of James IV warranted? (Last sentence of the article as it stands on 5.20.05) --Dog Whisperer 03:23, 21 May 2005 (UTC)

James Stewart, 1st Earl of Moray, Regent of Scotland, was the illegitimate son of James V, King of Scotland, by Margaret Erskine. - Nunh-huh 03:28, 21 May 2005 (UTC)

People are getting confused. James IV and James V both had illegitimate sons called James Stewart, who were both Earl of Moray. This was already explained in the article James Stewart, 1st Earl of Moray (1501 creation). Read the relevant articles properly before changing things. PatGallacher 13:45, 2005 May 21 (UTC)

I didn't change a thing. I asked if a change was warranted. Thank you very much for the explanation about the duplication of names. I appreciate it. However, when the James V page says "James Stewart, 1st Earl of Moray...." one might be forgiven for assuming that he actually WAS the first. --Dog Whisperer 20:07, 21 May 2005 (UTC)

Pat Gallacher: In response to your message (which I have found no way of responding to privately), I would only remind you that I simply asked a question on the talk page (as you suggest), and also did not change anything on either James IV or James V. Being now twice reminded to discuss on the talk page before changing anything is contrary to both facts. I am very much a student, not an authority, of this period of history, and I thank you once again for your assistance. --Dog Whisperer 19:07, 22 May 2005 (UTC)

more info
James IV and V were named Stewart. But James VI was named Stuart. Is this an error, or did he change the spelling of his family name?
 * It was changed by Mary Queen of Scots during her time in France, as the French did not have the letter "w". PatGallacher 13:20, 19 March 2007 (UTC)


 * When war broke out between England and France as a result of the Italian Wars, James found himself in a difficult position.

Why? Widsith 22:13, 9 September 2006 (UTC)


 * Because he'd signed the Treaty of Perpetual Peace (1502) with England when he married Margaret Tudor, but already had an alliance with France, the so-called Auld Alliance. Whatever he did, he couldn't please everyone. Angus McLellan (Talk) 22:44, 9 September 2006 (UTC)

But there is no mention of any alliance with France in the article. Widsith 08:08, 10 September 2006 (UTC)

There is a mix up with which king performed early language acquisition experiment. Think is should be James IV, but it is actually mentioned on the James V page. KC1987 (talk) 12:56, 6 May 2008 (UTC)

Excommunication
The article mentions that there were problems with his burial because he had been excommunicated, but this is not explained, or even mentioned, anywhere else in the article. Tad Lincoln (talk) 03:26, 19 January 2010 (UTC)

Celice
The story of the iron chain is doubtful, and Pitscottie writing 60 years after calls it a 'girth of iron' and later mentions it as possible identifier of the king's body as a 'belt of iron.' So I'm surprised to see it described as a 'celice', and though it was thought of as a penitential accessory, there is no suggestion that it more than cumbersome and uncomfortable. Unoquha (talk) 21:00, 28 June 2010 (UTC)

Mistresses
There could be an element of doubt creeping in about his mistresses. As well as his three better-established mistresses, he had a daughter by one of the Buchan family, but it's not clear which. Anyone clarify? PatGallacher (talk) 14:45, 17 September 2010 (UTC)

Scots vs Scotland
Since his title was King of Scots, shouldn't the article be named James IV of Scots? —JadziaLover (talk 18:23, 21 December 2010 (UTC)


 * Not necessarily, see WP:NCROY. PatGallacher (talk) 19:12, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

Great Britain
I don't see why there is a problem with GB in the intro, as KJIV certainly was the last monarch from this island to die in battle. The last English King to do so being Richard III. Great Britain isn't a political name, it is a topographical one, no? Brendandh (talk) 12:05, 24 August 2011 (UTC)


 * I was going to put in British Isles rather than GB, but then Shane O'Neill has that dubious honour! Brendandh (talk) 16:01, 24 August 2011 (UTC)

Pedro de Ayala - Spanish Diplomatic letter
Though the Spanish diplomatic letter from Pedro de Ayala was indeed partly written in cipher the sections regarding James IV are not encoded. The 19th century translation from Castilian (i.e. Spanish) is not always prefectly accurate or complete: and in this instance has actually inserted a non-existent sentence about Spanish letters, as well as making an improbable guess that an indecipherable word is 'biblios'.

The original document, which says much more about James IV than is quoted here, is held in the Spanish archives and can be read at:

|Archivo General de Simancas,PTR,LEG,52,DOC.166 - 857V - Imagen Núm: 2 / 26

http://pares.mcu.es/ParesBusquedas/servlets/Control_servlet?accion=4&txt_accion_origen=2&txt_id_desc_ud=2207889

The extract quoted in this article reads in the original:

El Rey es de XXV años y algunos meses, mas creo tres. es muy bien proporcionado: no es gra[n]de ni pequeño: es muy hermoso hombre en color y faciones quanto dezir se puede, tiene muy buena gracia en hablar, habla estas lenguas: Latin muy bueno, frances, Aleman, Flamenco, Italiano, español como mastre marqués y mas claro y no quiere que yo le forma fino en Spañol, y sui su lengua natural scocessa la qual es con la Inglesa como aragones con Castellano, habla otra len- gua que tienen los Salvajes en cierta parte de su Reyno y ciertas Islas: que es con la Sco- cesa como lengua Vizcayna con Castellana, es cierto es en esto tan general que es cosa de miramillar. tiene bien leyda la… [bruna?brima?brinia?]… y algu[n]os otros libros devotos de la sacra scriptura.

A different translation reads:

The King is XXV years old and some months, I think three. He is extremely well proportioned, neither big nor small. He is as handsome in complexion and form as a man can desire. He speaks very gracefully. He speaks these tongues: Latin very well, French, German, Flemish, Italian; Spanish as well as a marquis would, and clearer, and does not need me to speak carefully in Spanish; and his own natural tongue [lengua natural], Scottish, which, compared to English, is like Aragonese compared to Castilian. He also speaks another tongue the like which the savages have in a certain part of his kingdom and on certain islands. This, compared to the Scottish, is like Basque compared to Castilian. He is so proficient in this that it is a thing to marvel at. He has well read the [word indecipherable] and some other books devoted to the sacred scriptures.

Cassandra — Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.12.111.131 (talk) 09:57, 23 April 2013 (UTC)

Thank you for this: the exact archive and digital image reference for the paragraph is; 'Carta de Pedro de Ayala a Miguel Pérez de Almazan, (Secretario de los Reyes Católicos, sobre asuntos de Inglaterra, Flandes, Francia y Escocia)'; Archivo General de Simancas, PTR, LEG,52, DOC.166 - 857V - Imagen Núm: 2 / 26. The illegible, or rather not readily recognisable word could be "brivia," perhaps a form of Latin breviarium, breviary, which would make perfect sense here. I shall put the link on Pedro de Ayala.Unoquha (talk) 14:41, 23 April 2013 (UTC)

Excommunicated?
What does Excommunicated mean? I'm 3/4 Scottish American. Darth Jadus (talk) 21:27, 5 August 2014 (UTC)
 * Excommunication (Catholic Church) –  SquisherDa (talk) 23:27, 19 November 2018 (UTC)

Early Years
I don't understand the last paragraph of the first paragraph of the Early Years section. Could someone with more understanding of the subject clarify what exactly "his role in his father's death" means? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Earthliz (talk • contribs) 03:25, 17 May 2015 (UTC)


 * It seems a lot clearer now than it was at the time you queried it. Do you reckon it’s now OK?  – SquisherDa (talk) 23:54, 19 November 2018 (UTC)

Illegitimate children
His illegitimate children seem poorly sourced. It is possible that some who died in infancy may have slipped through the radar, but 2 who supposedly reached adulthood are not sourced anywhere, and the source looks poor, giving a supposed first marriage which is news to me. PatGallacher (talk) 17:55, 23 July 2016 (UTC)

Looked into into further, this was an anon IP edit in May, so it looks hoaxy. PatGallacher (talk) 20:53, 23 July 2016 (UTC)

Legends of the King's resting place
The section "Legends of the King's resting place" has a paragraph beginning with the word "However" and I was wondering whether it is a good idea to do this. Vorbee (talk) 15:33, 29 July 2018 (UTC)

Article rating
This articles rating has just been raised from C to B, any thoughts on how we can get it up to A? PatGallacher (talk) 21:01, 14 September 2022 (UTC)
 * Hi, it was me who rated it B, which is the highest I'm qualified to do. To be honest a lot of WikiProjects don't actually make use of the "A" rating, though MILHIST does. You might want to request a review at WP:MHR. More generally, I'd recommend looking at WP:GAN in order to request a review to bring it up to "Good Article" status.
 * I have not reviewed this article thoroughly myself, or done any kind of proof-reading. I would generally expect every paragraph to end in a reference though, but not all in this articles currently do. Also a couple have been marked as "[failed verification]" by another editor. From a personal point of view, I admit I'm not a fan of the current method of referrencing individual pages, and prefer use of Template:Rp, but that's my opinion.
 * Hope that helps! -Kj cheetham (talk) 08:34, 15 September 2022 (UTC)

James IV king of Scots
The entry is largely accurate but if you look at the entry in Scotland per se Ie not in him himself it refers to him as last British king to die in battle. Wrong. He was never British ! Ensb1 (talk) 19:04, 15 November 2023 (UTC)