Talk:Japanese war crimes/Archive 6

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Life Photo of Japanese Soldier Bayonetting a Chinese Person: Dead or Alive?

The caption of the photo taken by the Life photographer of the Chinese person being bayonetted by a Japanese soldier, says the victim is dead. I question whether the victim is dead or alive based on the position of the arms and shape of the hands, and that the head is blindfolded. Unless rigor had set in before they propped up the corpse, I'd expect the arms and hands to look more limp. Additionally, at least one source[1] states Japanese combat soldiers were indoctrinated by bayonetting a live person.

Can an expert of some sort review this photo to verify they are actually dead? Otherwise please consider revising the caption.

The victim was dead at the time of the practice according to the caption from Life magazine in 1937. The caption says "Bayonet practice, wherein Japanese soldiers used dead Chinese for targets, was photographed by an Associated Press photographer near Tientsin on Sept. 9"
  • Morris-Suzuki, Tessa (2005). The Past Within Us: Media, Memory, History. Verso. p. 75. ISBN 1859845134.
―― Phoenix7777 (talk) 00:30, 13 July 2013 (UTC)
I can't speak to the authenticity of this particular photo, but in Zen At War, Brian Daizen Victoria quotes at length the memoir of a Japanese businessman who turned conscientious objector during the war upon being ordered, with his entire basic training unit, to practice bayonet technique on live Chinese prisoners in precisely the fashion depicted in the photo. Given this uninterested and highly reliable independent testimony, the Life caption may at least be questioned. Perhaps the victims were dead at the moment the shutter was tripped, but bound alive. Laodah 00:30, 7 August 2015 (UTC)
I agree the Life's caption may not be so accurate to describe what might have happened as showed in the photo. STSC (talk) 16:49, 8 August 2015 (UTC)

Pearl Harbor

How was attacking a military and naval base a war crime? (Fghf12 (talk) 18:48, 7 December 2015 (UTC))

There was no prior declaration of war, which violated the Hague Convention. --Yaush (talk) 19:05, 7 December 2015 (UTC)
The US hasn't declared war on anyone since 1942, despite being continually at war. (Fghf12 (talk) 19:08, 7 December 2015 (UTC))
And your point is? Under the accepted international norms of the day, the attack was a war crime. The world has gotten messier since then. --Yaush (talk) 19:15, 7 December 2015 (UTC)
I don't see how not declaring war before attacking a military base can be considered a war crime. It certainly wouldn't today. (Fghf12 (talk) 19:18, 7 December 2015 (UTC))
Times change. So do the accepted rules. Sinking an unarmed enemy merchant ship without warning was once against the rules, too; that pretty much died about the same time as the Pearl Harbor attack. For a fuller discussion, you can look here: http://pwencycl.kgbudge.com/G/e/Geneva_and_Hague_Conventions.htm --Yaush (talk) 20:58, 7 December 2015 (UTC)
The article should note that attacking a military/naval base would not be considered a war crime today. (Fghf12 (talk) 19:51, 11 December 2015 (UTC))

This section of the article is pretty unsatisfactory: it doesn't seem to note any findings that the attack was in fact a war crime, and contains considerable OR. Googling "attack on pearl harbor war crime" also doesn't produce anything which confirms such a claim. The war crime was the much broader issue of starting an aggressive war (for which several of the key figures were convicted of by the International Military Tribunal for the Far East), and this has somehow been simplified into declaring that attacking Pearl Harbor was a war crime. Nick-D (talk) 23:07, 11 December 2015 (UTC)

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Protected edit request on 21 December 2016

Please remove the infobox, which was added by an IP sockpuppet without any discussion. First off, this isn't a civil conflict. Second, no other pages inlude the infobox, such as German war crimes, Italian war crimes, United States war crimes, ect. The prose itself is enough, more neutral, and detailed. The infobox is POV pushing. Fortunatestars (talk) 15:43, 21 December 2016 (UTC)

Done No comment from others so done. — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 11:31, 22 December 2016 (UTC)

Protected edit request on 22 December 2016

Add author, correct URL, switch to cite web template

Current: [https://web.archive.org/web/20131030042552/http://www.japanfocus.org/events/view/170The Abe Cabinet – An Ideological Breakdown], The Asia-Pacific Journal: Japan Focus Jan. 28, 2013
Proposed: {{cite web |last=Penney |first=Matthew |date=January 28, 2013 |title=The Abe Cabinet – An Ideological Breakdown |journal=The Asia-Pacific Journal: Japan Focus |url=http://apjjf.org/-Matthew-Penney/4747/article.html }}
  —Chris Capoccia T⁄C 04:41, 22 December 2016 (UTC)

Done — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 11:34, 22 December 2016 (UTC)
looks like the Winkler 2011 ref got mangled  —Chris Capoccia T⁄C 18:06, 22 December 2016 (UTC)
changed answered to "no" because Winkler 2001 ref needs to be repaired [1]   —Chris Capoccia T⁄C 21:11, 22 December 2016 (UTC)
 Not done however, Chris_Capoccia this page is no longer protected, you may edit directly. — xaosflux Talk 14:46, 28 December 2016 (UTC)
thanks. i fixed it.  —Chris Capoccia T⁄C 16:00, 28 December 2016 (UTC)

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Explaining quotes inline

@Carbon Caryatid: You explained the terms PT-163 and Bluejacket which in itself are improvements, however I felt the way the explanations were done broke the quotation a bit. Could it be done in a fashion that improves readability both in terms of textflow and ease of understanding? BFG (talk) 12:37, 22 July 2017 (UTC)

Thanks for your feedback; I can see your point. Usually I'd discuss wording on Talk, but this is visually a bit tricky, so I've been bold again and had another go. What do you think? Carbon Caryatid (talk) 13:07, 22 July 2017 (UTC)
@Carbon Caryatid: Bold is usually good, it can always be reverted. Not really sure if it was much better, if I'd had a good solution I would certainly have stated it. I'm leaning towards it being slightly better. BFG (talk) 08:41, 23 July 2017 (UTC)

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For school

Hello Wikipedians! I'm writing some comments on what I think about this article for a school project.

  • How is the article rated? Is it a part of any WikiProjects? It's rated both B and C class as well as of mid to high importance to multiple WikiProjects. Some of these are WikiProject Japan/Military history, WikiProject China, WikiProject Korea, WikiProject East Asia, WikiProject Human Rights, and WikiProject Military history.
  • How does the way Wikipedia discusses this topic differ from the way we've talked about it in class? The only way that this article really differs from what I've read in my textbook is that these crimes go through a lot more time periods rather than just the Tokugawan era of Japan. Some of these crimes relate to World War II as well as goes into a lot further detail (such as the practice of cannibalism and the apologies that were made). The article defines what "war crime in Japan" is defined as but goes into much much further detail.

Ansleymm (talk) 17:45, 30 January 2018 (UTC)

<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_war_crimes#Japanese_military_culture_and_imperialism>

request for semi-protection

so, as this is about war crimes commited by a country, many historical revisionists can come and delete content (examples are Wikidot, some random 3 ip users, Hirama and Jonahdoe.), so i ask the page to be at LEAST Semi-Protected. PastaEditor2 (talk) 17:13, 29 August 2020 (UTC)

@PastaEditor2: please make your request on Wikipedia:Requests_for_page_protection. I have added a template:controversial banner, but any further action requires higher privileges. BFG (talk) 11:19, 3 October 2020 (UTC)
User:PastaEditor2 was blocked with an expiration time of indefinite for sockpuppeting on 7 September 2020.―― Phoenix7777 (talk) 11:32, 3 October 2020 (UTC)

Pearl Harbor Casualties as Non-Combatants

In the "Attacks on neutral powers" section, it is claimed "The U.S. officially classified all 3,649 military and civilian casualties and destruction of military property at Pearl Harbor as non-combatants as there was no state of war between the U.S. and Japan when the attack occurred." I have removed one self-published source by Dennis W. Shepherd (2004) that failed verification and flagged the two remaining sources. There is a commercially published second edition (2015) of Understanding International Law by Stephen C. McCaffrey but I have not been able access that text to verify the relevant claim. --Mox La Push (talk) 23:27, 7 October 2020 (UTC)

Shouldn't the article include Japanese war crimes committed in pre-WWII?

Almost every country's article relating to the same topic has listed war crimes committed in pre-WWII wars, but for some reason, no one bothered to add the list of pre-WWII Japanese war crimes in this article. If someone with the knowledge of Japanese military history can fill out pre-WWII war crimes, that would be appreciated and the article needs to be reconstructed to fit in these lists. XXzoonamiXX (talk) 00:08, 31 October 2020 (UTC)

I believe this Wikipedia page should be locked

I've been hearing some reports that Japanese ultra-nationalists are vandalizing Japanese war crime Wikipedia pages (either to be removed or deny these events)

They targeted the Japanese, English, and some Chinese pages.

Shouldn't this be locked down so these aren't vandalized?

RedNetizen (talk) 21:06, 19 December 2020 (UTC)

I don't really know where you heard that from, but I would think this article in particular would be their prime target, and there's not been vandalism here for weeks. But if you'd like to, you can still make a request for page protection. Loafiewa (talk) 21:26, 19 December 2020 (UTC)

The Japanese language page of this Wiki is severely lacking in information

This post was mainly inspired by a Reddit post about a German man confronting a couple of Japanese war apologists and someone posted a link to this Wikipedia page in the comments of that post. I decided to check the Japanese language version of this page and noticed that it is heavily lacking in information and way smaller than it is in other languages like in English, Spanish, German, or French. I wanted to know how much of this is due to there not being much Japanese users on Wikipedia or how much of it is due to censorship which the government and many right-wingers have been known to do. Does anyone have any answers? Is there anyone that can help make the Japanese page longer and help translate? FlyingChancla (talk) 07:35, 21 December 2021 (UTC)

Different language versions of Wikipedia generally lack co-ordination. They rely on different sets of editors and sources. Dimadick (talk) 23:55, 22 December 2021 (UTC)

Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment

This article is or was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Ansleymm. Peer reviewers: Ansleymm.

Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT (talk) 01:07, 17 January 2022 (UTC)

Cutting back the discussion of Japanese war crimes in Vietnam

The previous version appears to have dropped long paraphrases from articles from 1945 Viet Minh magazines and newspapers into the section on rape. This includes a good deal of discussion of military and political strategy, none of which is particularly germane to this article, much less that topic. I have extracted the portion that relates to sex trafficking and integrated it in that section, discarded the non-germane portions, and turned the remainder into a new section on war crimes in Vietnam.

To be frank, I don't know that this new section merits inclusion in this article; it is mostly unsourced and Japanese war crimes in Vietnam are not so distinctive, in either type or scope (as compared to, say, China or the Philippines), to merit separate treatment. But I did not want to eliminate this entire discussion on my own. Zeno Cosini~enwiki (talk) 13:15, 30 November 2022 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:

Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 00:07, 22 December 2022 (UTC)

Battle of Midway

Concerns the capture, torture and execution of American airmen during the battle. The paragraph that relates these facts seems well sourced. However, other references mention the torture of two airmen and their execution by beheading on the aircraft carrier Hiryu (?). Anyone have any additional information? Hanafunda (talk) 10:27, 2 March 2023 (UTC)

Removal of content

I've reverted two edits by @NmWTfs85lXusaybq that removed large chunks of this article. If there is concenses to remove them then we should go forward with that but since these removals were done with an edit summary that claimed to only move content around and didn't mention content removal I felt that it should be discussed here. Dr vulpes (💬 • 📝) 21:22, 10 April 2023 (UTC)

I mentioned some paragraphs have been reordered and merged, with the removal of the redundant content. If you have any concern about this, I can make edits step by step. NmWTfs85lXusaybq (talk) 21:27, 10 April 2023 (UTC)
Yeah that might be best, I see that you've consolidated the article a bit but didn't include the references which are important. Maybe just removing the quotes from the article would tighten it up enough. Dr vulpes (💬 • 📝) 21:33, 10 April 2023 (UTC)
Sorry for the confusion caused by my edits. I will write more detailed summary. I'm trying to remove some of these content to balance regional aspects of victims, according to WP:PROPORTION. A reference will be kept if it does help. NmWTfs85lXusaybq (talk) 21:48, 10 April 2023 (UTC)

User Conflicts on Page

Discussion hidden per user request

User:LilAhok is approaching edit war with myself and several other editors in the history. They even posted the edit war template post on User talk:Yaujj13's page, which I'm not sure was justified in this situation, but I don't know the whole story. LilAhok also did not sign their message so that it looks, to me, like an automated message from Wikipedia. For me, I'm just trying to get them to explain the context of the extraordinary claim mentioned in the above section of discussion, but they've so far refused to do so or to enter the talk page. Instead, these users are fighting in the edit summaries. I also want to point out that the user violated talk page consensus and undid my edit referencing an unrelated policy to anything I had said in my edit description. I said that the source had no description and was in contest, they said that I was saying the source needed to be available on the internet. I don't understand. --IronMaidenRocks (talk) 19:12, 4 August 2023 (UTC)

@User:LilAhok I'm not sure if that's you, but please don't make revert edits while not signed in. --IronMaidenRocks (talk) 03:04, 7 August 2023 (UTC)
WP:AVOIDUNCIVIL - follow the wikiepdia guidelines and maintain civility. please, avoid making baseless accusations. LilAhok (talk) 03:25, 7 August 2023 (UTC)
I think it looks odd when an IP address with one edit arrives just in time to reinforce your edit, takes the extra effort to manually restore the material, and references the same misapplication of the same rule. Especially when such a tactic leads an editor into a backfoot defense on "you can't accuse me, it's against the rules." Why not just say that it wasn't you? "You are mistaken, it wasn't me" seems a lot more direct than accusing me of accusing you of something. --IronMaidenRocks (talk) 22:52, 7 August 2023 (UTC)
i added justifications to my edit, and Yaujj13 is currently arguing with other users in the admin board with other users for edit warring and POV pushing across multiple articles. i provided contradictory evidence from the sources Yaujj13 provided. I am not in an edit war with "several users." I'm not even in an edit war with you. if you want to accuse me of engaging in edit wars with several users. provide proof. otherwise, avoid making inapproriate accusations.
review WP:EW - "An edit war occurs when editors who disagree about the content of a page repeatedly override each other's contributions" how is one reversal considered edit warring? I reversed one of your edits, and stopped.
again, your justification for removing the sourced info was "removed fatalities section per discussion. New source has no description or clarification for a contested idea and is not easily accessible." info that is not easily accessible is not a valid justification for removal. that is the reason for my reversal of your edit.
Also, this isn't the appropriate forum to accuse someone of edit warring. You've made baseless accusations that violates WP:IDENTIFYUNCIVIL. LilAhok (talk) 04:36, 7 August 2023 (UTC)
I'm not going to argue with you. I'm not accusing you of starting an edit war or being in the wrong, I was addressing the situation in the article with multiple reverts happening at once, and you're the one doing most of the reverts of bold changes. Perhaps some of my wording comes off as offended, because I thought your edit summaries were aggressive and insulting. I think, in general here, your behavior is manipulative and your tone is way off base for what I'm willing to accept from an interaction with anyone. Let me know if we need to bring this to dispute resolution, because we are going no further with policy lawyering and disrespectful tone. I'm sure we could both be more civil, but quoting the WP tag at me twice while possibly violating it in turn is not helping. --IronMaidenRocks (talk) 22:00, 7 August 2023 (UTC)
WP:AVOIDUNCIVIL - avoid using "you" as well as attacking users with baseless accusations. i will remove this header, as it is not productive to the article. take any disputes you may have with me to the appropriate forums. LilAhok (talk) 01:18, 8 August 2023 (UTC)
Please do not delete talk page discussion. See the bottom of WP:TALK. Thank you. I hope we can turn this discussion into something more productive, but I do not think it is good to erase that there has been user conflict here. I am not trying to blame UserLilAhok who has requested I not use the 'you' pronoun, I just felt disrespected. But we can move passed that. Per UserLilAhok's comfort I'm invoking WP:COLLAPSENO ~~IronMaidenRocks (talk) 20:25, 8 August 2023 (UTC)
  1. ^ http://www.ww2pacific.com/atrocity.html. {{cite web}}: Missing or empty |title= (help)
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