Talk:Jean-Baptiste Vuillaume

Assessment, stub class for now
I assessed this as a mid-importance article for the Wikiproject Musical Instruments, as a musical instrument related manufacturuer. I rated it a b class as developed with references, sections and photo. The references are good so far. If you improve it and want reassessment or need help or have questions, please drop me a line.Jacqke (talk) 10:47, 10 May 2018 (UTC)

Noncompliance
This article needs reliable sources to back up its statements. It's also filled with opinions - "greatest geniuses", "His workshop then became the most important in the capital.", etc. It could also use some formatting work - splitting the article into sections, including links, etc.--Nonpareility 18:46, 21 January 2007 (UTC)
 * This article has been completely redone and updated to be in compliance, and is based on reliable sources by prominent historians. Vuillaume's shop did in fact become the most important shop in Paris (the capital). In fact it became one of the most prominent shops in all of Europe.
 * Please don't wipe out my comments. You need to cite (in the article!) reputable sources for the statements in the article. I suggest you read WP:Verifiability.--Nonpareility 04:11, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

"Greatest Geniuses" has been removed.

(This updated bio of Vuillaume is more accurate, un-biased & is in compliance with all available literature. It is by Emmanuel Jaeger, Curator of the Vuillaume exhibition, Paris Cité de la Musique.)

I do believe the article now meets the compliance standard. Please look into it.
 * Definitely isn't. WP:Verifiability: ""Verifiable" in this context means that any reader should be able to check that material added to Wikipedia has already been published by a reliable source." There isn't a single source in this article. You can't say "this is so because I'm an expert on the subject", you still need to say where (books, academic papers, etc.) the statements in the article are coming from. --Nonpareility 16:34, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

The sources are: Roger Millant author of J.B.Vuillaume- His Life & Work 1972 Violins, Vuillaume-A Great French Violin Maker of the 19th century and the THE MULTIMEDIA ENCYCLOPEDIA 1999 by  Emmanuel Jaeger, Curator of the Vuillaume exhibition, Paris Cité de la Musique This is one of THE most important publications in history, which was printed for the Vuillaume exhibit, Paris in 1998
 * I've added the references to the article in the proper format and removed the non-compliant tag. Update them if you have any additional information on the sources. The article still requires cleanup in terms of formatting - breaking the article into sections, paragraphing, quoting, etc.--Nonpareility 17:02, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

Intro
The intro needs some reworking - instead of saying that some guy says he's illustrious, could we instead include some facts as to how good he was?--Nonpareility 17:12, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

Intro
How about this: he was the most illustrious French violin-maker of the 19th century. "...what set him apart from the rest is that he was not only an artist without equal, but also a tireless seeker of perfection to whom there was no such thing as failure. It is this driving force which shone through his life and made his work immortal" Roger Millant, Paris 1972.

Let me know if that works fine with you.
 * It's better, but still suffers the same problem. WP:PEACOCK--Nonpareility 17:43, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

Could you enlighten me how to update the photo?
 * WP:image--Nonpareility 17:43, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

-

Intro
I have updated as such:

Jean Baptiste Vuillaume (1798-1875) was the most illustrious French  violin-maker of the 19th century. "...What set him apart from the rest is that he was not only an artist without equal, but also a tireless seeker of perfection to whom there was no such thing as failure. It is this driving force which shone through his life and made his work immortal" Roger Millant, Paris 1972.

Together with Lupot, Vuillaume is the foremost French stringed instrument maker and the most important of the Vuillaume family of luthiers (listed below) - E. Jaeger, curator of the Vuillaume exhibit in Cite de la Musique

Let me know what you think..... —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Milliot (talk • contribs) 22:18, 22 January 2007 (UTC).
 * You don't need to create a new section on this page for every response, just continue the discussion after. Also, remember to sign your posts by clicking on the signature button. And no, that doesn't address my concerns. Please read WP:PEACOCK and understand its relation to the words "the most illustrious French violin-maker of the 19th century".--Nonpareility 22:23, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

The phrase "the most illustrious French violin-maker of the 19th century" is used not only in the publication by Roger Millant 1972 (an expert on Vuillaume who was also a Luthier himself), but has been used in other important publications about J.B. Vuillaume: Henley Dictionary, Sylvette Milliot - Vuillaume Iconography 2006, Media Encyclopedia and Vuillaume Exhibit- Paris, France 1998 (talk
 * It doesn't matter. Read WP:PEACOCK--Nonpareility 15:11, 23 January 2007 (UTC)

How is this for the intro? : J.B. Vuillaume - "the most illustrious French violin-maker of the 19th century,  made over 3000 instruments, was also  a  fine businessman and a gifted inventor ." (talk

Old Photo
Earlier "Vuillaume violin" photo: Image:Violin_Vuillaume.jpg, has been reappearing by User:Frinck51. That photo has been requested for immediate deletion. Reason: Instrument may not be authentic. User:Frinck51 insists on putting it back in. Milliot 25 March 2007

Please do not erase my posts and keep editing your photo.Milliot 25 March 2007

Protected?
Why does this page keep getting marked as protected? It's not protected.--Nonpareility 17:39, 26 March 2007 (UTC)

Periods
What marks the separation between the different "periods" of his life? I suggest that the "periods" be renamed based on what happened to him - for example "Time in Ternes, France".--Nonpareility 17:46, 26 March 2007 (UTC)

Quotes
What is the purpose of the quotes section? It seems to only repeat the content of the article.--Nonpareility 17:57, 26 March 2007 (UTC)

Other members of the Vuillaume family
Can we add some intro text to explain why we're listing family members?--Nonpareility 17:57, 26 March 2007 (UTC)

.........

The Vuillaume family stands as one of the most influential dynasties in violin making. J.B. Vuillaume was their patriarch.
 * Don't tell me, put it in the article.--Nonpareility 19:58, 26 March 2007 (UTC)

The periods are well defined by the current biography by (S. Milliot) and is very important in determining instruments as to which particular period they are from.
 * Are you S. Milliot?--Nonpareility 19:58, 26 March 2007 (UTC)

Quotes in the begining of the article are from the most respected authorities on J.B. Vuillaume.
 * No, I mean the quotes at the end.--Nonpareility 19:58, 26 March 2007 (UTC)

Protection is from someone who keeps editing in a questionable violin stating it is a J.B. Vuillaume. Milliot 26 March, 2007
 * It doesn't work that way. You have to request protection. Just putting up a notice doesn't protect a page. Read Requests for page protection for info on how to protect a page.--Nonpareility 19:58, 26 March 2007 (UTC)


 * I think the article is pretty clear. The quotes at the end discuss the numbering system, and to many who do not know, there are instruments without number. Hence the quote. Milliot :) 26 March, 2007
 * Only the last paragraph speaks of the numbering system. The first four are on another topic. The info seems to be good, but lumping it under "Quotes" doesn't makes sense. What if we split up the "Contributions" section into sections describing the violins themselves, the people he taught, etc. and put the numbering info in the violin description section? The remaining info in "Contributions" seem to be repetitions of the intro and of the family section.--Nonpareility 00:48, 27 March 2007 (UTC)

I think listing the members of the Vuillaume family is good. It would be even more clear if it was in a family-tree type format. Chickpeana (talk) 15:20, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

Clarification
Can someone please explain why this article is still labeled as "All pages needing cleanup | Wikipedia articles needing factual verification since May 2007" when it is very clear that the info has been substantiated from reputable sources including the leading authors on the subject. ??? Milliot 15:54, 18 August 2007 (UTC)

Assessment comment
Substituted at 19:40, 29 April 2016 (UTC)

'Heat treatment' of old violins?
In Carl Flesch's "The Art of Violin Playing", he asserts that Vuillaume and his supporters "baked" (heat-treated?) a number of violins, mainly in his middle period (see Vol. 1, 1-General Technique, A-"The Violin").

Can anyone find a basis for this assertion? Or suggest what treatments might have been experimented with (presumably to enhance the visual appearance, or to make them look older)? Lawrence18uk (talk) 13:29, 15 November 2023 (UTC)