Talk:Jeffrey Dahmer/GA1

GA Review
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Reviewer: Ritchie333 (talk · contribs) 15:54, 16 October 2013 (UTC)

I'll give this a go. I've read through the article some time back, but I think it's been greatly improved since then.

General

 * Dablinks reports a link to Dahmer on the page somewhere via this report

Lead

 * The article is 63K of prose. Generally above 50K we prefer to do content forks or to trim the article down, though in some cases it can be acceptable. I'm not sure we need to go into quite so much intricate detail, particularly about the deaths. In any case, for an article of that size, the lead needs to be about 4 detailed paragraphs.


 * Date of birth is not referred to in the article body


 * "also known as the Milwaukee Cannibal" - not mentioned in the body

Early life

 * "As her son entered first grade" - wikilink / explain what "first grade" is to non US readers
 * What makes trutv.com a reliable source?
 * "He chose the name David for his younger brother" - don't need "for his younger brother" - we know who David is from the previous sentence
 * "Lionel Dahmer achieved his degree" - "graduated" might be a better term
 * A single sentence in the last paragraph on this section is split in several places by semicolons. It's probably better to split these into separate sentences.

Adolescence and High School

 * "It's my medicine." - the Google Newspaper link needs more information, work / newspaper name, date, page (if available) and author (likewise)
 * "although the pair never had intercourse" - I wonder if there's a better way of wording this, perhaps "although their relationship was not physical".

First murder and army service

 * "Dahmer picked up an 18-year-old hitchhiker named Steven Mark Hicks" - the two citations for this need more detail.
 * "The following day" - I wonder if it's worth putting in "June 19" here, as "June 18" is buried in the preceding paragraph
 * "The flesh he dissolved in acid" - should read "He dissolved the flesh in acid" and this is still unsourced
 * "Dahmer's father and his fiancée returned to his home where they discovered Jeffrey living alone at the house." - I'm confused by this - were they not expecting him to be?
 * "before, on July 13, 1979, being deployed to Baumholder in West Germany where he served as a combat medic" - confusing grammar, the "1979" is redundant per the context in the preceding sentence. I'd go with "before being deployed to Baumholder in West Germany on July 13...."

Return to Ohio and relocation to West Allis

 * "Upon his return to Ohio, Dahmer initially resided with his father and stepmother" - unless I missed it (always possible!) this is the first mention of his stepmother, do we know what her name is, or any other details
 * "in early 1982, Dahmer found employment" .... "He held this job for a total of ten months before being made redundant" .... "Shortly before being made redundant, Dahmer was arrested for indecent exposure. On August 7, 1982," - the timeline of events doesn't add up. "Shortly before being made redundant" can be removed to fix this.
 * The wikilink to gay bathhouse is "bathhouses". I think the full link is required - "bathhouse" on its own to me implies the sort of thing Archimedes went to when he cried "Eureka!"
 * "He is also known to have stolen a male mannequin" - the sentence can probably be split into two
 * "he conceived the idea of stealing the freshly-interred corpse and taking it home" - citation given needs a page number
 * trutv.com cite again (see earlier)

Ambassador Hotel

 * "Nine years passed before Dahmer killed again;" - I'm not sure this is required here - the previous section is talking about events in 1987 and suddenly the narrative jumps back to compare events from 1978.
 * "later informed investigators that he simply "could not believe this had happened." - quote cited to trutv.com
 * "all of Tuomi's remains—excluding the severed head[72]—were disposed of in the trash" .... "For a total of two weeks following Tuomi's murder, Dahmer retained the victim's head wrapped in a blanket." - these two sentences seem to contradict each other. Either he kept the head or he disposed of it. Which is correct?
 * What is Soilex?

Intermediate incidents

 * "the skull was boiled and initially retained before being pulverized." - can you confirm the source cited to the subsequent sentence also verifies this one too.
 * "Although Dahmer replied in a manner that led his grandmother to believe he was alone, his grandmother did observe the fact Dahmer was not alone" - don't need the second "was not alone"
 * "before taking to the County General Hospital" - newspaper cite needs full information such as publisher, date and page (in case the search link goes dead). This applies to several other news cites later in the article
 * "Two months after his conviction and two months...." - several sentences and one quotation are cited to a single source - can you confirm this is correct
 * "Dahmer lured Sears to his grandmother's home (where Dahmer was temporarily living)" - the previous paragraph says he was living in an apartment

924 North 25th Street

 * "On May 14, 1990, Dahmer moved out of his grandmother's house and into Apartment 213, 924 North 25th Street" - the previous paragraph just told us this
 * "Anthony Sears" - per WP:LASTNAME should just read "Sears"
 * "the remainder of Smith's skeleton—excluding the skull—he dissolved" - you don't need dashes here, commas will suffice
 * "Naturally, Dahmer never reported this incident to the police" - I don't think "naturally" is a good choice of word here, most people don't "naturally" kill other people. Also this sentence is unreferenced.
 * "Less than three months after the murder of Smith" - end of paragraph is unreferenced. The following paragraph can probably be merged with this one as it's about the same murder
 * "He then posed the nude body for various suggestive Polaroid photographs" - don't need "suggestive"
 * "The severed head Dahmer repeatedly kissed and talked to" - bad grammar, should be "Dahmer repeatedly kissed and talked to the severed head"
 * "the occasional sound of a chainsaw" - minor nitpick, but the source says "power saw"
 * "The manager of the Oxford Apartments" - the name is mentioned in the previous sentence, "apartments" should suffice here
 * The events of May 27, 1991, have some newspaper links that should use the full cite news template, as per above. The source also says the officers involved were subsequently suspended without pay, which would be worth mentioning.
 * "domestic" - this quotation is misleading from the source as it takes a single word. The article gives the impression the officer said it abrasively at the scene of the incident, whereas he actually said "You have what appears to be a domestic situation" when questioned about his actions later
 * "this odor emanated from the decomposing body of Hughes" - source name is misspelled, and also only says it was apparently Hughes
 * "Had a background check upon Dahmer been conducted" - sentence can go in the preceding paragraph, and I'm not sure it adds much to the article - we know he was convicted and under probation from reading the article - why mention it again here?

Arrest

 * The end of the first paragraph is unsourced
 * The second paragraph has a citation to YouTube. Why is this a reliable source, and why is it not a copyright violation to link it?
 * "Edwards repeated assertions he was Dahmer's friend" - confusing, suggest "Edwards repeatedly told Dahmer he was his friend"
 * "and the pair walked to the living room when Edwards exited the bathroom" - I think just saying "and the pair moved there" will get the same information across
 * "Edwards waited until he observed Dahmer to momentarily lapse" - don't need "to"
 * "two Milwaukee police officers were flagged down by Tracy Edwards" - WP:LASTNAME - just "Edwards"
 * What makes medicinesatmichigan.org a reliable source?
 * "chief medical examiner" wikilinks to coroner. If it's a coroner, link to that.
 * "He readily admitted to having murdered sixteen young men in Wisconsin since 1987," - although this can be inferred from earlier cites, an additional citation stating this should be added here

Indictment

 * The end of the second paragraph is unsourced

Trial

 * There seem to be an awful lot of doctors who diagnosed Dahmer as "with borderline personality disorder". I counted the same phrase five times. This wants rewording.


 * That he was repeatedly diagnosed with borderline personality disorder is a fact. The trial section discusses what the defense, prosecution, and independent court appointed experts thought of Mr. Dahmer's mental state. All experts diagnosed him with BPD, including one of the defense experts. How would you reword it? — Preceding unsigned comment added by DendroNaja (talk • contribs) 16:51, 16 October 2013 (UTC)
 * I'd probably move it to a single sentence at the end near the paragraph starting "The trial lasted two weeks" - something like "In conclusion, Wahlstrom, Resnick, Fodel ..... diagnosed Dahmer with borderline personality disorder". The fact that multiple doctors diagnosed BPD is important to mention, but not necessarily by saying it multiple times. Ritchie333  (talk)  (cont)   16:55, 16 October 2013 (UTC)

OK, I'm going to get Kieronoldham involved in this because it was he and I that really expanded the article and so I'm going to ask him to help me meet your demands, if that is okay with you. --DendroNaja (talk) 17:03, 16 October 2013 (UTC)

Also, if I move it all near the end in a single sentence, what would the body of the trial section consist of? The whole point of the trial was to determine his sanity and his mental diagnosis. --DendroNaja (talk) 17:07, 16 October 2013 (UTC)


 * I'm not sure to be honest. I'll have a proper read through the article first, then I might have some better suggestions! Ritchie333  (talk)  (cont)   17:09, 16 October 2013 (UTC)

I will wait for you to read the entire article before any changes are being made. Kieronoldham is working on the references and cites, but I am going to be focusing on the 'trial' and 'pathology' sections. But like I mentioned, I will wait for you to do a thorough read of the article and possibly some investigative work on the cites and references before major changes are made. The article is very detailed, well-written, well referenced and very accurate. --DendroNaja (talk) 17:27, 18 October 2013 (UTC)

Imprisonment and death

 * First two paragraphs can be merged together. End of second paragraph is unsourced.
 * The use of people.com as a source has been considered controversial (see recent events at Talk:Brad Pitt). Consider finding an alternative source if one exists. The source appears to be formatted in different ways, it should be consistent.
 * End of fourth paragraph is unsourced
 * "He had been severely bludgeoned about the head with a 20-inch (51 cm) metal bar" - the source here doesn't appear to be formatted correctly
 * "Their assailant, 25-year-old Christopher Scarver" ... everything through to the end of the paragraph is unsourced
 * "In September 1995, Dahmer's body was cremated" - why did it take so long?

Pathology

 * A lot of this section is repetition - for instance the relationship with his parents, his sexuality, and his alcohol abuse. I think this can be merged with the earlier section


 * I don't see how it is repetition. It states his mental health diagnoses and goes on to explain the issues which impacted his life the most. The borderline personality disorder was the most significant, followed by his substance abuse and then his paraphilias. These are very important to to the article. It is this section which explains his motives, thoughts of himself, others and the world in general. It gives the readers a clear picture of Dahmer's mind. I think it is well written and well referenced.--DendroNaja (talk) 03:29, 22 October 2013 (UTC)


 * I don't! The second paragraph "Borderline personality disorder" is completely unsourced, and further sentences later on are also lacking inline citations. Some of this section is not repeated in the main narrative earlier in the article, but a significant amount is. Ritchie333  (talk)  (cont)   08:26, 22 October 2013 (UTC)

Aftermath

 * The list should be represented as prose. Some ends of paragraphs are unsourced.

Media

 * The list could be better represented as prose.

Referencing

 * I see a number of claims at the end of paragraphs that are not cited to a reliable source. Normally we only require inline cites for contentious material, but I think it's completely fair to say that in Dahmer's case, that's more or less everything. In particular, there is a paragraph (which includes quotations) relating to the murder of Konerak Sinthasomphone which is completely unreferenced. I'm afraid for an article of this nature, I am going to have to insist on reliable inline cites for absolutely everything (except the lead) or I will have to fail the review. Sorry. I'll wait until this is done before proceeding. Ritchie333  (talk)  (cont)   15:54, 16 October 2013 (UTC)


 * Can you point out exactly which paragraph relating to the murder of Sinthasomphone you are referring to? The details of the deaths all come from a very reliable source: Brian Masters "The Shrine of Jeffrey Dahmer". --DendroNaja (talk) 16:43, 16 October 2013 (UTC)


 * It's the one that starts "Prior to his falling unconscious, Sinthasomphone..." in the section "924 North 25th Street". Just to clarify, I'm not claiming any source is unreliable (I think it's highly likely any suspicious sources would have been weeded out anyway), just that everything needs proper cites. Ritchie333  (talk)  (cont)   16:47, 16 October 2013 (UTC)

Okay, the article is looking more referenced - there are still some outstanding places where cites are required, but I'll carry on reviewing now and come back to those. Ritchie333 (talk)  (cont)   16:08, 19 October 2013 (UTC)

Summary
I'm afraid to say I think there are too many problems with the article as present to fix in a short frame of time. In particular, the remaining uncited text and possible original research that misrepresents the sources' account of Sinthasomphone and the police's response are major concerns. I think an independent editor with access to the references cited should check the article thoroughly to make sure it is factually accurate and verifiable. Sorry. Ritchie333 (talk)  (cont)   08:33, 22 October 2013 (UTC)