Talk:Jiyū e no Shingeki

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German song names
What's the point in listing the songs' names in German? This is a Japanese language single (with some parts sung in German) by a Japanese artist for a Japanese anime, on the English Wikipedia. If there was a sourced official English title, sure, but I don't see how titles in German add to the article at all. --Prosperosity (talk) 06:33, 8 March 2014 (UTC)
 * The German titles are spoken during the performances of the song. In addition, the German title of the lead track is listed amongst all of the English translations of the opening credits in the original opening sequence within Japan.— Ryūlóng ( 琉竜 ) 08:22, 8 March 2014 (UTC)
 * But does that make them their official English titles? None of the sources for the article back up that statement (or even mention the titles). The only English language source in the article refers to 紅蓮の弓矢 as Guren no Yumiya, not a German title. --Prosperosity (talk) 09:09, 8 March 2014 (UTC)
 * All I am aware is that "Feuerroter Pfeil und Bogen" and "Die Flügel der Freiheit" are lyrics in both songs and the phrase "Feuerroter Pfeil und Bogen" is featured in the opening credits sequence along with "Executive Producer" and similar phrases.— Ryūlóng ( 琉竜 ) 09:13, 8 March 2014 (UTC)
 * Unless we find sources showing that those titles are widely used in English and/or their official titles in English specifically are those, I don't think it can really be justified against WP:ENG. This is the English language Wikipedia, after all. --Prosperosity (talk) 10:49, 8 March 2014 (UTC)
 * I disagree and have reverted your bold edits to remove the German language titles on this page and the handful of others. This is what they are called in Japan amongst all of the other English language text that they accompanied. Your edits to remove the titles from the usage on this page added an unsourced false statement and broke several templates' formatting. I don't see how this is better than pointing out to you that the opening sequence explicitly has "Feuerroter Pfeil und Bogen" associated with 紅蓮の弓矢 when the same treatment of that German phrase is given to the romanizations of every staff member, and the lyrics of 自由の翼 do not use "じゆうのつばさ" but rather the German "Die Flügel der Freiheit". Obviously, Japanese speakers will use the Japanese readings, but this does not excuse the fact that the artist has clearly decided to style the titles of these songs in German.— Ryūlóng ( 琉竜 ) 01:06, 9 March 2014 (UTC)
 * It's irrelevant to the English Wikipedia if there are titles in German (which you have not sourced. Please source these!) Because they do not prove English usage. Why are the titles exceptions to WP:ENG? Are there any English language websites that use the German titles when referring to these songs?
 * If the songs are consistently referred to by their German names in English publications, sure, go for it. As the one English language source you have calls the songs "Jiyū no Tsubasa" and "Guren no Yumiya," I'm not sure if it can be justified. --Prosperosity (talk) 01:16, 9 March 2014 (UTC)
 * The source is the songs' recordings and the television series' broadcasts. Did you not understand that? Are you really demanding that I figure out how to cite the first 13 episodes' broadcasts for every single time "Feuerroter Pfeil und Bogen" appears on screen and the impossible to read liner notes for the appearances of "Feuerroter Pfeil und Bogen" and "Die Flügel der Freiheit" in the songs' lyrics? And fine, switching to the god damn romaji. One English language source should not outweigh the explicit usage of German in these songs' lyrics and promotion within Japan.— Ryūlóng ( 琉竜 ) 01:17, 9 March 2014 (UTC)
 * Exactly! It's not that the titles can't be in German, it's just that there's no proof that the German is what is used in English-language sources. There are plenty of English sources showing that Attack on Titan, not Shingeki no Kyojin, is what is used in the English speaking world. --Prosperosity (talk) 01:35, 9 March 2014 (UTC)
 * Why should one and only one English language source dictate how these songs' names are written here?— Ryūlóng ( 琉竜 ) 02:01, 9 March 2014 (UTC)
 * Because it's currently the only evidence either way. --Prosperosity (talk) 09:03, 9 March 2014 (UTC)
 * That's frankly bullshit and not covered by any style guide that I'm aware of.— Ryūlóng ( 琉竜 ) 11:24, 9 March 2014 (UTC)

Like Ryulong said in response to Prosperosity's initial query, the songs are sung with German lyrics, a significant fact for the topic. I've edited this in, with an English-language source. For 1 of the songs at least, I have added in an English-language (Crunchyroll) article that gave Feuerrotter Pfeil und Bogen as alternate title. The opening choral lyrics seems to be "Sie sind das Essen und wir sind die Jäger. (Ah, Ah Ahh..)". Sources are preferably but not mandatorily to be given in English (please see WP:NOENG).--Kiyoweap (talk) 10:23, 1 May 2015 (UTC)

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