Talk:Joan Collins/Archive 1

Mistake in 1st paragraph
It states she "trained at the Royal Academy of Dramatic Art (RADA) with actors such as Sir Roger Moore and Sir Michael Caine."

Not true. Caine never went to RADA, or to any other school of acting. In fact, he has often moaned about being overlooked in Briatin because of his lack of a theatrical background and concentration on films. Admittedly, La Collins, and Roger Moore, aren't taken seriously artistically either. Dolmance 18:41, 19 March 2007 (UTC)


 * Yikes! --AStanhope 01:45, 1 November 2005 (UTC)


 * This sounds a lot like PR. "A woman in perpetual motion"? PLEASE! Someone who actually knows what they're doing should sort this out. --86.129.235.153 20:37, 18 December 2005 (UTC)


 * Agree. Weird. Written from future: "In 2006, she did this and that... very successfully" of course. --Waldirei 22:25, 26 December 2005 (UTC)

Private Lives?
Well, yes, the whole page is as POV (not to mention OTT -- over the top) as any non-religion-related page I've seen here, but somehow, Joan being Joan, I don't mind as much as I so with, say, edit-war veterans like Pat Robertson. I do, however, have one smaller question -- in what way (other than the leading lady being something like forty years older than the original character calls for) was Collin's Broadway version of Private Lives an "adaptation"? I vaguely remembering it being a hit despite scathing reviews (the usual filmstar problems -- tiny voice, no technique, and lots of pandering to the audience)....Robertissimo 07:25, 14 January 2006 (UTC)

Personal life
''Graham Lord reports in his biography of Collins that she didn't lose her virginity until 18, a comparatively late age for one so sexually precocious. However she compensated for this 'late' start. In an interview with the Daily Mail on Monday August 20th, Collins was quoted as saying that in her time in Hollywood she went out with 'zillions and zillions' of men. Her sister Jackie was quoted as saying 'I think she did her own thing sexually.' Collins herself admits she was unfaithful 'but only only on location. It doesn't count on location. Everybody was having a little fling, I don't suffer very much from guilt.'''

''On arrival in Hollywood she was propositioned by studio boss Darryl F. Zanuck who cornered her in a corridor and said 'You haven't had anyone till you've had me. I've got the biggest and the best and I can go all night.' Collins managed to escape from this encounter and at a later stage when he showed her the solid gold life-sized mold of his genitals that he liked to show impressionable girls, Collins responded with 'I've seen bigger things crawl out of cabbages.'''

What is this section meant to be here for? Sexual preferences or habits do not belong into an encyclopaedia. At least not as long it does not constitute a main part of the person's public character and is acknowledged as such by the person dealt with in the article. What some, probably yellow press, journalist writes about the sexual life of Mrs. Collins is completely irrelevant to the interested public to be informed by an encyclopaedia article. And what a way to start a chapter on the private life of a public person, speculating on when or how he or she lost virginity... Revolting!

I would like to have the complete private life section rewritten and the paragraph cited to be deleted asap. I don't want to do it myself. Thank you, 194.246.46.15 (talk) 09:30, 24 April 2008 (UTC)

You gotta be kidding me! The Zanuck anecdote is funny as shit! Anyway, it's not speculation about when she lost her virginity, since Joan willingly supplies the relevant details and doesn't have any problem talking about it. I mean really, what are the Collins sisters best known for - their thespian and literary skills? What is this, the Saint Anthony of Comstock Encyclopedia? Some people take themselves - and this project - a wee bit too seriously - and prudishly.

IMDb quote attributed to Anthony Newley will be reverted per WP:BLP
IMDb is fairly accurate about movies and dates but is subject to user input that does not get the peer review of editors here at Wikipedia. In addition, the IMDb quote is not sourced/cited there which makes it somewhat questionable in light of Attribution which requires that the "threshold for inclusion in Wikipedia is whether material is attributable to a reliable published source". WP:BLP, per the talkheader above, states: controversial "material of any kind that is unsourced or poorly sourced must be removed immediately, especially if potentially libelous. Unless this quote can be found in another reliable source as to when, where and what context is was allegedly said, it should be not be included. Ronbo76 04:49, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

Stretched image
The Image:Joanxxx.jpg in the infobox is clearly streched. Anyone got better one? The Merciful 17:13, 14 August 2007 (UTC)

Photograph
Who is Leonard Simpson and why is he in the photograph next to Joan Collins? JettaMann 16:27, 8 October 2007 (UTC)


 * I've taken the opportunity of adding a redlink there, and perhaps somebody will research it and see if it's worth filling in. Apparently he's this chap who styles himself as a make-over artist, and considering he's photographed next to the ever-youthful undefinedgenarian Joan Collins.  he doesn't seem to lack for ambition or ability to appear in the frame with people who look a lot better than you'd think they ought to.


 * More to the point: the photo was donated to the public domain by its photographer, which means that you can snip Mr Simpson out of the photo, producing a new work which is entirely your own, and which you can license in any way you please. The precise detail of this depends on whether your jurisdiction recognises the right of a producer to abrogate his rights, which are heritable). --Tony Sidaway 00:56, 11 October 2007 (UTC)

Most widely known
I've removed this from the Lead section:
 * She is most widely known for her role as Alexis Carrington in the 1980s primetime soap opera Dynasty.

Ms Collins is an English actress and prior to her appearance on Dynasty she already enjoyed worldwide fame. That claim seems somewhat contentious to me.

Moreover when I (from google.co.uk) google on +joan-collins, I get an estimate of "about 1,120,000", but if I google on +joan-collins +dynasty I get "about 93,000".

The "+" sign is used to suggest "must contain".

Doesn't she play a character called Alexis?

+joan-collins +dynasty
 * about 186,000

Carrington?

+joan-collins +carrington
 * about 88,700

No I don't think the Dynasty thing is supportable. --Tony Sidaway 00:56, 11 October 2007 (UTC)


 * I never really know if the Google hit quotient really means anything. But in any case, I feel as though despite the fame Collins may have had early in her career, it was Dynasty that made her a household name, and in describing her now I would argue that it is her best-known role for mainstream audiences. And by that I mean, go ask your dad if he knows who Joan Collins is, and he'll probably say, "That English lady from Dallas, LOL. In any case, the statement should stay out of the article as long as it is unsourced, but I find it hard to believe that some respectable publication hasn't said it a million times.&mdash; TAnthonyTalk 06:54, 25 January 2010 (UTC)

Rumors
I've removed all references to rumors. Wikipedia is an encyclopedia, not a scandal rag. --Tony Sidaway 00:57, 11 October 2007 (UTC)

Rumor & The Graham Lord biography
It appears that recently there have been several additions based on the work of biographer Graham Lord. Mr Lord's work is not heavily researched, sourced or vetted. Therefore, any use of it in the Joan Collins Wiki entry is absolutely inappropriate. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.79.195.31 (talk) 06:46, 8 January 2008 (UTC)

German
I believe to recall that she is fluent in German to an extent that she dubbed her own role in Dynasty (Der Denver-Clan) for German television. Can anyone give more info on this? Iago 212 20:11, 20 April 2009 (UTC)

I've seen Collins on German TV and she is relatively fluent. I have heard German dubbing of 'Dynasty' and it is not Joan Collins' voice. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.79.207.198 (talk) 06:23, 31 July 2009 (UTC)

Books
All of the books listed in the Joan Collins Books section are what she has written, her oeuvre if you will. Adding a book by her father and an unauthorized biography by Graham Lord defeats the purpose of listing Ms. Collins' literary work in chronological order. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.79.207.198 (talk) 21:24, 10 November 2008 (UTC)


 * Since many of Collins' books are autobiographical, these other biographies are helpful to list; I've reorganized the section to accommodate the fact that she didn't write them. In the future, you might want to explain yourself in edit summaries rather than delete information without comment and be reverted over and over. &mdash; TAnthonyTalk 22:15, 10 November 2008 (UTC)

I don't even know what an Edit Summary is. What I do know is that if you're so insistent on keeping those two other books, which were not written by Ms Collins, you had better get working on finding every other book written about her, otherwise the addition is incomplete and highly questionable. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.79.207.198 (talk) 04:24, 11 November 2008 (UTC)


 * If you don't know what an edit summary is, you should not be participating here but ... it is the box in which you wrote "Until the entire collection of books written by Other authors is found, the inclusion of two books about Ms Collins is incomplete and could be seen as reflecting a bias towards two specifc works" in your last edit. You should always explain your edits in this area, thanks for doing so here.
 * As far as "bias," you have got to be kidding! I do hope others will add any other books about Collins (and feel free to do so yourself), but in the meantime there is nothing inappropriate about adding what material is known. It is, however, an issue for you to remove factual information for no justifiable reason. No one is asserting these works to be especially significant, and I do not believe they are even used as source material for the article itself.&mdash; TAnthonyTalk 04:39, 11 November 2008 (UTC)

Actually, the Graham Lord biography was used by someone in an extreme overhaul of this article. It is filled with unsubstantiated rumor and all of those references were removed. I question the relevance of including incomplete information in a section (Books) which was very complete. It just seems like overkill. And I am not kidding about 'bias,' why include two works that Ms Collins had nothing to do with (yes, including the one written by Joe Collins) when there are others out there that haven't been included? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.79.207.198 (talk) 08:04, 12 November 2008 (UTC)


 * Yes, I'm aware that the Lord stuff was removed and that the book is criticized, but that is irrelevant. It could actually be considered biased in favor of the actress to include only her own autobiographical work. If there are more books out there, find them and include them, geez. Since when is "incomplete" bad? &mdash; TAnthonyTalk 19:07, 12 November 2008 (UTC)

Comment As a suggestion, based on what I've seen in other articles, rename the current Books section to 'Writing career' but only keep the description part. Then move the list of books she's written to a section called 'Books' after 'Television credits'. The books by other authors belong in 'Further reading' which usually comes between References and External links, I think. I'd also suggest renaming 'Music' to 'Singing career' or something similar. 75.60.18.245 (talk) 16:21, 12 September 2011 (UTC)

Arthur Lowe
See this in the Express. I assume you can check her Twitter feed as well. 99.27.249.23 (talk) 01:45, 12 September 2011 (UTC)


 * A prize to anyone who can find a reference to Arthur Lowe in the article history. --FormerIP (talk) 01:53, 12 September 2011 (UTC)


 * The problem statement was in Nndb, not Wikipedia - see User talk:Jimbo Wales, posting just before my first post here. The Signpost this month had a similar puzzler regarding Jean Marsh and her reported death - also not found in Wikipedia history. Wikipedia is the name people remember - and therefore blame. ;-) I noticed the earlier vandalism here, which was a cut and paste from the Express or Twitter. Obviously someone was trying to help, had no idea how to do that, and since the result looked like vandalism I thought I'd provide the explanation here (it had already been reverted). Sorry, I should have been more clear. It's just that we have so much intentional vandalism, I enjoy the thought that some of it is done in good faith. 99.27.249.23 (talk) 05:24, 12 September 2011 (UTC)


 * The tweet from Joan Collins is here on 10 September 2011, and the edit was reverted by ClueBot here. WikiBlame allows searches of article history, but I drew a blank on Arthur Lowe. A mystery indeed.-- ♦Ian Ma c M♦  (talk to me) 15:29, 12 September 2011 (UTC)


 * The claim that she slept with Arthur Lowe is here on NNDB, but has apparently never been in her Wikipedia article.-- ♦Ian Ma c M♦  (talk to me) 17:20, 12 September 2011 (UTC)

Jewish Category
A while ago I visited her page and she was listed under British Jews. But now her name does not appear in the list. Yet her father was Jewish. Marilyn Monroe on the other hand converte to Judaism mainly to please Miller is listed under American Jews. I can't understand Wikipedia when it comes to religion or ethnic identity. Why was Collions removed from British Jews category? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.166.50.72 (talk) 13:43, 23 September 2011 (UTC)


 * "Person x is Jewish" can mean either "Person x has Jewish ancestry" or "Person x is a practising member of the Jewish faith". Either of these statements would require a reliable source. How a person self-identifies is a key factor. External labels are discouraged.-- ♦Ian Ma c M♦  (talk to me) 14:05, 23 September 2011 (UTC)

Wikipedia has her sister listed as Jewish, does this count as a reliable source? Unless Joan has stated that in no way is affiliated with Judaism or jewish identity I think that she should be included in the British Jews category. Or remove Marilyn Monroe from American Jews.... — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.166.50.72 (talk) 14:12, 23 September 2011 (UTC)


 * The article Who is a Jew? looks at this question in depth. The article Joan Collins cites her father Joe as Jewish but not her mother. This leaves room for interpretation, so there are no cut and dried answers to this question.-- ♦Ian Ma c  M♦  (talk to me) 14:35, 23 September 2011 (UTC)

 Generally speaking the Jewish faith is passed on down ONLY through the mother, so technically you're not classified as Jewish if only your father is Jewish.  See this article http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/so-you-call-yourself-jewish-1844265.html "The oldest definition of Jewish identity comes from halakha – the collective body of Jewish religious law, including the Bible, the Talmud and centuries of rabbinic law – which says that a Jew is anyone born to a Jewish mother or who undergoes a rigorous conversion process." Veryscarymary (talk) 20:27, 11 November 2012 (UTC)  Charitable work.

There is NO charity called the International Foundation for Children with Learning Disabilities, there was only http://www.charity-commission.gov.uk/Showcharity/RegisterOfCharities/RemovedCharityMain.aspx?RegisteredCharityNumber=271447&SubsidiaryNumber=0 an association that was 'removed'  they operated from 1976-2000.

There is also NO Association of Breast Cancer Studies.

She is also NOT mentioned on the NSPCC website...and since they were formed in 1883, I don't see how Joan could be a 'founding member'!! http://www.nspcc.org.uk/what-we-do/about-the-nspcc/history-of-NSPCC/history-of-the-nspcc_wda72240.html I think this information should be removed as it can't be confirmed. To say someone does charity work, and there is no record of that is a bit false:( Veryscarymary (talk) 20:22, 11 November 2012 (UTC)

Percy Gibson's Birthday?
Is this useable as a birthday? it's already known his year of birth, but this is his sister-in-law wishing him happy birthday on 24th October on twitter https://twitter.com/jackiejcollins/status/27398672464

Veryscarymary (talk) 20:05, 5 February 2015 (UTC)

She's still here
Re this edit: Someone may have the wrong end of the stick over the death of Kate O'Mara.. Sorry Joan, reports of death an exaggeration.-- ♦Ian Ma c M♦  (talk to me) 16:16, 30 March 2014 (UTC)
 * Oh dear, not again. This time her sister Jackie Collins has died, but Joan is still here. Sorry again, Joan.-- ♦Ian Ma c M♦  (talk to me) 08:12, 20 September 2015 (UTC)

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