Talk:Joanna Newsom/Archive 1

Tour dates
Would it be "wiki correct" to add upcoming tour dates?Dwaink 20:44, 13 December 2006 (UTC)

Personal life
Is it worth mentioning her romantic involvment with Bill Callahan (smog)? I don't have a source for this unfortuneately. (unsigned comment)
 * If there is no source, it shouldn't be listed. NickBurns 18:01, 22 December 2006 (UTC)
 * In the sleeve notes of Ys, on the thank you page, she writes "AND thank you sweet Billy...". In context, this is after she thanks the people who worked on the album and just before she thanks family and friends. Is this enough? Rogwan 01:00, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

Under personal life, the article says that she is engaged to Bill Callahan, but the article referenced only mentions that they are dating. Should that be edited out? Vibrissa 01:52, 9 April 2007 (UTC)

A recent edit says she is dating Andy Samberg. It cited a gossip article so I've removed any reference to her relationship status until a more reliable source is available. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Rogwan (talk • contribs) 23:43, 6 February 2008 (UTC)

"Esame"
Is this certain? Where does this news come from? Citation is needed. It does sound like something she would name her new song (compare with "Cosmia" or "Colleen" for instance) but I would really appreciate if someone gave me the source of this information. Did she actually SAY that she´s going to name this new song this? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.196.227.26 (talk) 10:32, 18 October 2007 (UTC)


 * Over at Milkymoon(Joanna forum) one of our number spotted the name on the set list(which he said he swiped) at the sound control board, during an Albert Hall, English concert. As we were already in the process of translating the lyrics we tagged it Esame.Someone has said the baby girl the song was writen about was named Esme, so it seems to have settled down to Untitled(Esame) and the other new song has gained the tag Untitled(Barbara-because RF teased the audience to call it that).Dwaink (talk) 01:30, 30 March 2008 (UTC)

I love Joanna more than those fools. -T. Parker (tkeyszzzz) 72.74.124.96 (talk) 06:57, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

Disambiguation
Why is it that Newsom's page is spelled incorrectly? If you type in "Newsom", you are directed to "Newsome"...??? Nlk
 * Typing "Newsom" brings up the search result Newsome (a village in England). Searching Joanna Newsome (a very common misspelling of her name) redirects to Joanna Newsom (this article).  I think that's how it should be set up, perhaps adding a disambiguation page to (the currently blank) Newsom page pointing to the two things if it really gets confusing.  Most people know (and probably type) her first name though).  Hope that's helpful. Jellypuzzle | Talk 08:23, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

Edit to article
I removed the following: "Newsom has faced a moderate amount of criticism by people in feminist circles for her child like voice." pending citations for this. I'll have a look around in the meantime. Xobxela 06:20, 18 August 2006 (UTC)

Non-free image
Regarding licensing for the photo that was added here:
 * "It is believed that the use of some such photographs to illustrate:
 * the person(s), product, event, or subject in question
 * in the absence of a free alternative,
 * on the English-language Wikipedia, hosted on servers in the United States by the non-profit Wikimedia Foundation,
 * qualifies as fair use under United States copyright law." (emphasis mine)

The previous photo was CC-licensed, so it seems to me that using the new photo wouldn't qualify as fair use. I've backed out this change for now. Also, I think Ys should remain labelled "forthcoming" until it comes out. I've reverted that as well. Hope this makes sense. →smably 21:54, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

"Harper"
I removed the claim about Joanna calling herself a "harper", based on her quotes in a recent article in The Wire where she claims to have never referred to herself as such:

''An attribution that's stuck to her is the distinction she is supposed to have made between a 'harper' and a 'harpist'. "I've heard that damn quote everywhere," she bemoans, "but I don't think I said that ever. It sounds like a really wack thing for me to say! I believe it's a distinction between folk harp [harper] and classical harp [harpist]. The reason I say folk harp rather than classical harp is that there aren't many men who play pedal harp still – there's so many associations with women with that instrument that men don't feel welcome to play it."'' smably 19:59, 29 October 2006 (UTC)

Stupid Commment
Somebody has added the following comment...I can't figure out how to delte this but if somebody see this?

"Her album Ys is the worst album ever made. She is so stupid, she doesn't even know how to spell "Yes""

212.100.105.189 15:55, 29 January 2007 (UTC)Ad, 29/1/07212.100.105.189 15:55, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

Lisa Simpson
I removed that line because it is not objective enough for Wiki and the link to the 'refference' was broken.


 * Sure as shit sounds like Lisa Simpson, though. Dan (talk) 09:13, 17 January 2008 (UTC)

Orange advert
There should be some reference to the fact that it is her haunting voice and clever lyrics from the track This Side of the Blue played over the Orange Ad at the pictures re the New York Black Out.(Nubianwarriorqueen)


 * Sorry, but I don't see why - unless there's a repercussion. The majority of mobile phone companies in the UK have started using more independent artists in their adverts so I don't think Joanna Newsom in an Orange advert is really worth a mention. Rogwan 22:48, 14 March 2007 (UTC)


 * I only meant that for many this mass exposure through cinema might be how most are introduced to her music and so you might need to big it up a bit. I didn't have a name only a few lines from the song that I kept singing after a visit to the pictures and had to search the net to find information! (NWQ) —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Nubianwarriorqueen (talk • contribs) 16:09, 15 March 2007 (UTC).

Vocal Inspiration
Clearly this is contentious, but many artists on Wikipedia feature some reference to their obvious vocal inspiration. Since Joanna Newsom so clearly resembles Kate Bush vocally, would it be appropriate to include such a reference on her page? Cravenmonket 15:44, 17 March 2007 (UTC)


 * I don't think she's comparable to Kate Bush - only that she's quite a creative female artist which can be said about a lot of people. Rogwan 18:44, 17 March 2007 (UTC)


 * !!!!! Have you HEARD Kate Bush???Cravenmonket 02:13, 19 March 2007 (UTC)


 * I'm a pretty big fan of Kate Bush and honestly, I don't think they're that similar. (They're both madly creative, unconventional female vocalists and songwriters. That's about all the similarity I see.) Many people have made the connection, though, so as long as you cite your sources properly (no OR, please :), I think it would be appropriate to add a note about this. →smably 16:28, 19 March 2007 (UTC)


 * I'm still not too happy about this unless say there was a category for creative female artists (and what would the selection criteria be for that!). Within that group, there could be Björk, Tori Amos, Yoko Ono, ... none of these are necessarily comparable in terms of sound. In this case, Kate Bush has, and uses, a very wide vocal range which I don't think can be said for Joanna Newsom. smably says fine if it's cited, but I'd still feel uncomfortable about this. Rogwan 19:29, 20 March 2007 (UTC)


 * I think it is funny how she says she doesn't like her voice being called child-like when childlike is the first thing I thought of when I heard it! Cls14 14:40, 24 June 2007 (UTC)


 * Regardless of whether or not we think she sounds like (or doesn't sound like) Kate Bush, it would be inappropriate to cite Kate Bush as an influence, unless you can find a statement made by Joanna herself that Kate Bush is one of her influences. − Twas Now ( talk • contribs • e-mail ) 11:41, 30 March 2008 (UTC)

She doesn't sound like Kate Bush at all. She sounds exactly like Sierra Casady from CocoRosie. I had never heard anyone who sang at ALL like Sierra Casady, and then I saw Joanna Newsom on Later with Jools Holland and was like "holy shit". -- AvatarMN (talk) 10:39, 16 February 2008 (UTC)

She doesn't sound that much like Sierra either, really. She just sounds like herself - and unless someone can come up with a source where she lists her influences, this entire discussion is completely subjective - and thus none of it is worthy of WP. 71.162.83.66 (talk) 20:48, 18 September 2008 (UTC)

what is a 'creative female artist'? and, incidentally, what is a non-creative female artist? 'creative' is such a ridiculously emotive, subjective and loaded term. i don't think smably, who is clearly a massive fan of newsom, has sufficient detachment to edit her page. also, when did a particular artist become the authority on their own influences? that's not really how influence works in the sense of a transmission of cultural energy, is it? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 90.194.148.27 (talk) 23:39, 18 February 2009 (UTC)

Bridges n Balloons
This song was played by The Decemberists for their 2005 album, "Picaresque". However, it was released only on "Picaresqueties", in 2006. Since Newsom had it first on "Milk Eyed Mender", released 2004, am I correct to assume that it was the Decemberists who covered Newsom's version, and not vice versa? There's no info on either of these articles: Joanna Newsom, The Decemberists, Picaresqueties, or The Milk-Eyed Mender. Help. --ThrowingStick/ Talk 14:50, 2 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Yes, it is Joanna Newsom's song, first released in 2003 on Yarn and Glue. →smably 15:17, 2 April 2007 (UTC)

Pronounciation of "Ys"
I just wanted to point out that the reason I removed the comment "(pronounced 'eece')" from the article's mention of the album Ys is that I don't think it's particularly helpful. A double-e is clear, but the letter 'c' is not (in English it could be pronounced like 's', 'k', or even 'ch'), and the extra 'e' at the end doesn't seem to help either. Anyone who needs to know the pronounciation can easily go to that album's article and find it there (although I dislike the "standardization" of using IPA, that's a debate for another time). - Ugliness Man 00:03, 1 August 2007 (UTC)

Current Photo
Was planning on changing current photo to one used previously. (http://www.dragcity.com/press/pimages/photos/dc303ph01.jpg). Was released by Drag City on their promo/press release page. Does anyone have any objections. Could one write to Drag City asking for permission? The current photo is awful. You can barely see her face, and it does not accurately portray her, her music style or even the instrument she is famous for. I believe no photo would be better than the current one. Please comment if you feel in any way inclined, both for and against.Lost kafei 08:08, 8 August 2007 (UTC)
 * I agree, this current photo is terrible to an extreme. No photo would be better than this current one. OkamiItto 05:26, 19 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Better? --Closedmouth 14:25, 19 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Much. OkamiItto 14:34, 19 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Thank you very much for that! This is so much better. I think it really captures Joanna Newsom, her harp and her amazing live presence. Thumbs up! Lost kafei 10:55, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

Did she ever play a show in New Paltz, NY?
This is really bothering me. I swear I saw her perform in 2002/2003 or 2004 in New Paltz - on a keyboard. Am I just imagining this now? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 209.10.243.125 (talk) 20:58, 16 January 2008 (UTC)

Child Like?
Isn't the comment a case of a subjective and not widely stated analogy getting a bit carried away? Reading the article this is cited from hardly seems to make it a definitive statement about her. Also there's something subtly questionable about a citation to a quote that itself is lacking a citation and that its scope and significance may be in question. I recommend removing the sentence. It adds nothing of significance, and in fact may mislead and create significance where there is none. 208.47.130.100 (talk) 16:39, 2 April 2008 (UTC)

Genres of Joanna Newsom
I can't believe you guys are actually having an edit war over such a stupid, inconsequential topic. Please stop, otherwise the whole page will get locked for the sake of one word. Alexforcefive (talk) 17:13, 24 June 2008 (UTC)


 * It's cool; I don't care anymore. If whomever wants to label her as whatever, that is completely inconsequential to the article as a whole. However, the random label-change from "experimental" to "avant-garde" that this user is making to many articles seems completely arbitrary. Icarus of old (talk) 21:52, 24 June 2008 (UTC)


 * I didn't know using a reference to change an article was considered arbitrary. RichLow (talk) 13:16, 26 June 2008 (UTC)


 * It's arbitrary if there's no good reason for it, and I haven't seen you give a good reason. Since people obviously disagree with you (pretty close to unanimously, in fact), you may want to explain your reasoning here on the talk page and try to get some sort of consensus. Klausness (talk) 19:46, 26 June 2008 (UTC)


 * Let's see: 1. I have a reference. 2. You don't. 3. Consensus doesn't mean anything. RichLow (talk) 12:44, 4 July 2008 (UTC)


 * Well, (1) you may have a reference that calls her "avant-garde", but I haven't seen you give a reference that says that she's not experimental; and it's your deletion of "experimental", not your addition of "avant-garde" that's annoying people; (2) I haven't added a reference, but that doesn't mean none exist (and some probably do, but this isn't an article I normally work on, so I'll leave it to others to dig up references); (3) Excuse me? Consensus is one of the core policies of wikipedia.  Klausness (talk) 20:37, 7 July 2008 (UTC)


 * Ha-ha! You need to provide references for any contentious information. It is absurd to ask other editors to find references to claim someone is not something. By such logic, if I put "Albert Einstein was a purple elephant" into the Albert Einstein article, it becomes the responsibility of other editors to find references to prove he was not a purple elephant? I think you will agree that such reasoning is moronic or absurd. − Twas Now ( talk • contribs • e-mail ) 22:24, 7 July 2008 (UTC)


 * Yes, but there was no indication of why this genre was supposed to be contentious.  I was admittedly being a bit flippant in my reply, in response to RichLow's tone, but genres in the infobox generally don't need references (since they're pretty subjective anyway) unless there's some real dispute about them.  And the first step is generally to indicate that a genre is in dispute, either by bringing it up on the talk page or by flagging the claim as needing citation, not just to delete the genre without comment.  Things like deliberate misinformation and unreferenced claims that clearly violate WP:BLP can be deleted immediately, but this doesn't fall into that category.  The point of my response about references was that RichLow was defending his edit by saying that he had a reference, but he in fact had no reference for the controversial part of his edit (namely the deletion of a genre).  And while it's true that he could have just added a citation request to the genre (and then deleted it if no citation was added after a reasonable amount of time), it is in fact possible to support this sort of thing with citations (though, again, it's not necessary -- it's incumbent upon those who add a claim to provide citations upon request).  For example, one might find a citation that classifies her into a genre that is clearly disjoint from experimental music (e.g. calling her a mainstream country and western artist).   In your example, since elephants (purple or otherwise) are not people, a citation that calls Einstein a person would be enough show that he is not a purple elephant (though of course the claim could just be immediately deleted as deliberate misinfomation).  Klausness (talk) 09:45, 8 July 2008 (UTC)


 * Why don't you include both experimental and avant-garde? Both are sort of bullshit terms that aren't genres, but if it's that important, why not have both? − Twas Now ( talk • contribs • e-mail ) 19:54, 26 June 2008 (UTC)

joanna newsom is married?
Someone added a section saying that joanna newsom is married. I couldn't find a reference about that, and I couldn't find anything about her alleged husband online, so I've removed it for now. Please don't put it back until you can reference it. Alexforcefive (talk) 01:29, 7 July 2008 (UTC)

I've requested page protection
All these stupid little edit wars are getting ridiculous. Just when the arguments about her genres stop, you guys start warring over her age. If you can't find a source for something, DON'T ARGUE ABOUT IT. I've requested that the page be protected. Alexforcefive (talk) 23:15, 13 July 2008 (UTC)

Drag City "hint"
Since this is obviously a gray area, as the newsletter doesn't implicate Newsom specifically, I can start the debate on whether or not this rumor should be included in this article. I think it's reasonable to cite this piece of information; Joanna Newsom is one of the most prominent musicians currently signed to Drag City, and with the amount of excitement for the follow-up to the very successful Ys on all sides, it makes sense that they'd start the fanfare this early, even with it being the cryptic quip it is. Any other "big releases" Drag City would be expected to put out have been announced already, with Bonnie 'Prince' Billy's album having been released in March and Bill Callahan's album this April. It also coincides with when the expectations for her new album to be released would be, as it's been nearly three years since Ys's release and also since she hasn't played a show since October of 2008. If anyone feels strongly against this, though, I'd be open to hearing your thoughts. Hexagon70 (talk) 04:38, 27 April 2009 (UTC)


 * Here's a less ambiguous source: http://billions.com/avails —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.231.138.89 (talk) 07:01, 14 June 2009 (UTC)

Has a Child?
This news report critising the Kids video says that the child in the video with her is in fact her own real-life son. Is this worth noting, or just more fox nonsense?

http://www.myfoxspringfield.com/myfox/pages/Entertainment/Detail?contentId=8445476&version=1&locale=EN-US&layoutCode=TSTY&pageId=7.1.1 Cian 78.16.62.209 (talk) 22:10, 17 June 2009 (UTC)

it's nonsense —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.167.104.174 (talk) 19:27, 19 June 2009 (UTC)