Talk:Joey Manley

dates
He died in November according to the box, in August according to the body text.

I had heard that WCN etc. died with him, but according to this they shut down in April; why? —Tamfang (talk) 22:59, 29 September 2018 (UTC)
 * The body text was incorrect, and I don't know how that happened. Manley did pass away on November 7. Modern Tales and associated websites did shut down in April. Looking at the website using the Wayback Machine confirms it. I don't know why this is, as no sources comment on it. Only one source mentions that the family shut down in that month specifically, and I decided to use it. Oddly, it wasn't news when the Modern Tales family shut down, apparently. ~ Maplestrip/Mable ( chat ) 05:55, 30 September 2018 (UTC)

Possible reference




Could also be used for a potential ComicSpace article. Oornery (talk) 10:28, 18 November 2018 (UTC)
 * This is a really great source, Oornery! I'm trying to think of how to potentially use this one in Manley's article, but I think the only way to do that is by going into more detail about ComicSpace. I think it's time to create a ComicSpace article, we have enough information about it now. I'll set up a userspace draft for it, and of course I'll save this Pastebin text locally. Thanks so much! ~ Maplestrip/Mable ( chat ) 12:50, 18 November 2018 (UTC)

Reference to financial success in lede
There is one thing and I seem to be going back-and-forth on (and I apologize for kinda "sneakily" reverting you for it alongside other changes, that was not right of me), which is whether the following line should be in the lead section: "Though Manley's subscription services never became financially successful enough to support the artists he worked with, ...". See this edit. Some sources that include this information include the Shaenon Garrity obituary, the Dirk Deppey interview as well as this unused Wired article which doesn't mention Manley specifically. Perhaps who is currently GA-reviewing this article has insight on this as well. ~ Maplestrip/Mable ( chat ) 20:30, 20 November 2018 (UTC)
 * Hi. Yes, I removed the "Though never financially successful ..." phrase because there were significant problems with it. First, it is incorrect because, for example, artists like James Kochalka describe their Joey Manley published webcomics as being big successes financially: "setting up the web site and having it be subscription based where people pay $1.95 a month [has made it] my most moneymaking comic ever ... I make more money from it than any of my other comics. In that sense, it's a big success for me." Second, that phrase (as well as the article as a whole) vastly overemphasizes monetary concerns over artistic concerns, which is an incorrect thing to do in an article whose topic is described as "supporting ambitious and challenging art" and someone who "publishes newcomers without thought to whether or not the work is lucrative." There were also other problems with that phrase (including with the sentence structure itself), but I think those two reasons alone are good enough to remove that problem phrase and move on to improving other areas of the article. Thanks. ChrisBike (talk) 00:47, 21 November 2018 (UTC)
 * You make good points, though I would have a rebuttal for both of those points. For one, Kochalka actually had a separate subscription system from the main Modern Tales-family ones, so it is not part of Manley's main subscription services. However, you're right that the way I phrased the sentence, this is unclear. Secondly, the main obituary does state that "Manley’s stated goal was to bring in a living wage for its artists in five years." I personally don't feel like lucrativity is overemphasised in the article, but maybe I am clumsily trying to balance out the fact that half of the sources are written by people who likely met Manley and write very positively about him. I'd like to know what you're thinking, as your edits have been quite constructive (though I have had difficulty not feeling owenership over the article especially as it went through the GA process :s ). ~ Maplestrip/Mable ( chat ) 06:06, 21 November 2018 (UTC)