Talk:John Clare/Archive 1

Copy
POSSIBLE COPYVIO! This reeks of it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Varcolac (talk • contribs) 04:32, 1 May 2006 (UTC)


 * Most likely - I've removed it. --  the     GREAT     Gavini   16:43, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

The 'Life section is basically the 1911 Encyclopaedia Britannica entry. -- Picapica 09:11, 1 July 2007 (UTC)

Soke of Peterborough, Northamptonshire
Peterborough was part of Northamptonshire whilst Clare was alive, therefor he is a person from either "the Soke of Peterborough (in Northamptonshire)" or "Northamptonshire", not Peterborough (which is a city, and Helpstone was not/is not part of P'boro) or Cambridgeshire (which only gained P'boro in the 1974 re-shuffle of boundaries). Gruffty (talk) 13:07, 3 August 2008 (UTC)

The just compromise is to put Clare in both categories; Helpston was and is in P'boro (Soke then, unitary authority now) and he is claimed by the city now but he was known as the Northamptonshire Peasant Poet (and spent almost a third of his life in Northampton).

Many other articles appear in more than one People from ... category; I see no difficulty with Clare being placed in two. Ned de Rotelande 08:53, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

Robert Graves essay
Robert Graves wrote an essay on Clare, reprinted in The Crowning Privilege, which certainly should be listed and probably should be drawn on for the article. Graves, very much an admirer of Clare, drew much more hostile conclusions about Clare's rich patrons than one would infer from the article. In particular Graves noted their eagerness to disappear Clare's political radicalism. Not stressed in this article as it stands, either, eh? Jeremy (talk) 07:20, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

Location of place of Clare's death - is it now a university?
I have heard it said that the location of the death of John Clare is now the University of Northampton. If any reliable sources which could be cited here, whether books, articles or websites, perhaps this deserves a mention. There is definitely a hall of residence at the University of Northampton called "John Clare" - perhaps this could be mentioned. 92.5.19.128 (talk) 21:07, 7 October 2008 (UTC)


 * According to the article, he died while at what is now St Andrew's Hospital, which is some distance from either of the campuses of the university. Unless he did not die at the hospital itself?  Richard New Forest (talk) 10:55, 8 October 2008 (UTC)

I thought that he died at Northhamtonshire General Lunatic Asylum, where he spent the last 22 years of his life. Jane Bond (talk) 23:57, 29 January 2009 (UTC)

He did die at Northampton General Lunatic Asylum, which is now St Andrew's Hospital. The only link between St Andrews and UCN is that UCN trains nurses/physios/OTs etc and might send those students to SAH on placement. Also, SAH used to host and run the local OT school, which was almalgamated with UCN some years ago (before I qualified as a MH nurse in 1994 at least). Gruffty (talk) 11:33, 14 February 2009 (UTC)

HELP! facts, refs, scholarship
All of it seems to have been lifted perhaps from books (The Britanica) but certainly from a school essay. It's a pretty horrible article still. It seems a grave disservice to a great poet. I've intro'd some subheadings and tried to take out some painful POV, but it's still an essay with no refs. Does anyone know how to send out a cry for wiki assistance for help to overhaul asap? Spanglej (talk) 01:27, 29 May 2009 (UTC)

"Mis"representation
If you actually bother to READ about the great John Clare, then it is obviously that he MISrepresented the English couintryside for his own reasons. It is even obvious in the artice itself. Stop changing it to it's INCORECT form because it bloody well ridicolous. HEARMYLUSTYROARS 02:55, 28 December 2009 (UTC) 21:31, 26 December 2009 (UTC) 21:20, 26 December 2009 (UTC) 21:17, 26 December 2009 (UTC)


 * No, he was indeed well known for his representations, and there is no suggestion in the article (or anywhere else I've seen) that they are inaccurate, either deliberately or accidentally. Also, it doesn't take much reading of his poetry to appreciate the accuracy of his representations.


 * It's therefore hard to see how the above comment and repeated related edits are in good faith, and so they look very much like vandalism or trolling, or both. If by any chance there is a genuine point, please make it here (politely) and leave the article alone until a consensus is reached.  Otherwise please try to find a more constructive way of contributing to Wikipedia.  Thanks.  Richard New Forest (talk) 18:11, 27 December 2009 (UTC)

indeed? let us look at some shall we.

"How sweet to be thus nestling deep in boughs, Upon an ashen stoven pillowing me; Faintly are heard the ploughmen at their ploughs,"

Ploughing is NOISY. He was being SARCASTIC TO MAKE a ppoint about LIFE in the ENGLISH countryside! MISrepresentation.

"But not an eye can find its way to see. The sunbeams scarce molest me with a smile,"

Need I even COMMENT on that line? MISrepresentation!

"So thick the leafy armies gather round; And where they do, the breeze blows cool the while, Their leafy shadows dancing on the ground."

A minute ago he said the sun WASN'T out and now there are "leafy shadows"? It give me a break! MISreperesentation!

"Full many a flower, too, wishing to be seen, Perks up its head the hiding grass between.- In mid-wood silence, thus, how sweet to be;"

Scarcely 15 seconds into the poem he said that he could hear PLUGHING! Now it's silent? MISrepresenation!

"Where all the noises, that on peace intrude, Come from the chittering cricket, bird, and bee,"

AND PLOUGHING?

"Whose songs have charms to sweeten solitude."

Seriously you guys, check out John Clare. He rocks. But he does so with a cocked-eye and a crooked girn, by MISrepresentating English Country Life! &lt;big&gt;&#91;&#91;User:LustyRoars&#124;&lt;font style=&quot;text-decoration:blink&quot;&gt;&lt;font color=&quot;red&quot; face=&quot;Kristen ITC&quot;&gt;&lt;b&gt;TOLD U &lt;/b&gt;&lt;/font&gt;&lt;font color=&quot;#FF00FF&quot; face=&quot;Kristen ITC&quot;&gt;&lt;b&gt;I WAS &lt;/b&gt;&lt;/f [[User:LustyRoars| HEARMYLUSTYROARS 02:55, 28 December 2009 (UTC)ont&gt;&lt;font color=&quot;blue&quot; face=&quot;Kristen ITC&quot;&gt;&lt;b&gt; HARDCORE&lt;/b&gt;&lt;/font&gt;&lt;/font&gt;&#93;&#93;&lt;/big&gt;]] (talk) 21:30, 27 December 2009 (UTC)

&lt;big&gt;&#91;&#91;User:LustyRoars&#124;&lt;font style=&quot;text-decoration:blink&quot;&gt;&lt;font color=&quot;red&quot; face=&quot;Kristen ITC&quot;&gt;&lt;b&gt;TOLD U &lt;/b&gt;&lt;/font&gt;&lt;font color=&quot;#FF00FF&quot; face=&quot;Kristen ITC&quot;&gt;&lt;b&gt;I WAS &lt;/b&gt;&lt;/font&gt;&lt;font color=&quot;blue&quot; face=&quot;Kristen ITC&quot;&gt;&lt;b&gt; HARDCORE&lt;/b&gt;&lt;/font&gt;&lt;/font&gt;&#93;&# [[User:LustyRoars| HEARMY<b style="color:blue;font-family:Kristen ITC;">LUSTYROARS</b> 02:55, 28 December 2009 (UTC)93;&lt;/big&gt;]] (talk) 21:31, 26 December 2009 (UTC) YOU ARE SO WRONG ABOUT THIS.


 * Can I suggest you study some Wikipedia guidance:
 * WP:Vandalism
 * What is a troll?
 * WP:CIVIL
 * WP:Original research
 * WP:Reliable sources
 * WP:Edit warring
 * You will find a very warm welcome if you make constructive contributions to Wikipedia. However, trolling, vandalism and other disruptive editing is not tolerated.


 * If you really do consider that John Clare "misrepresented" the English Countryside, then it is up to you to provide a reliable reference. Your interpretation of the poetry constitutes original research, which is not allowable on WP – even if yours was an accurate or meaningful interpretation, which it clearly is not.


 * You are right that Clare often looked askance at his subjects, but that does not at all mean he misrepresented them. No citation is needed for "represented", as it agrees with the primae facie meaning of the article, and indeed of all his poetry.


 * So, let's see an academic source which says that he "misrepresented". Until then the article should remain as it was: please do not change it again until a consensus for change has been achieved.  Richard New Forest (talk) 23:36, 27 December 2009 (UTC)

Ugh! Just like so many on the internet, as soon as someone questions your view you cry "troll". It's enough to make me sick and it stinks to high heaven.

JOHN CLARE said it himself:

"One can scarcely trust fame on credit in these days of misrepresentation and deception" – JOHN CLARE. If JOHN CLARE isn't a good enough source for his own wikipedia page then they should change the site's name to WACKapedia because that is WACK. Perhaps QUACKapedia! Enough jokes.

Fact remains that JOHN CLARE found the Englsih countryside MISrepresented and he DECRIED this through his poetry. And that's a fact, Jack (Richard). &lt;big&gt;&#91;&#91;User:LustyRoars&#124;&lt;font style=&quot;text-decoration:blink&quot;&gt;&lt;font color=&quot;red&quot; face=&quot;Kristen ITC&quot;&gt;&lt;b&gt;TOLD U &lt;/b&gt;&lt;/font&gt;&lt;font color=&quot;#FF00FF&quot; face=&quot;Kristen ITC&quot;&gt;&lt;b&gt;I WAS &lt;/b&gt;&lt;/font&gt;&lt;font color=&quot;blue&quot; face=&quot;Kristen ITC&quot;&gt;&lt;b&gt; HARDCORE&lt;/b&gt;&lt;/font&gt;&lt;/font&gt;&#93;&#93;&lt;/big&gt; (talk) 02:39, 28 December 2009 (UTC) <b style="color:red;font-family:Kristen ITC;">HEAR</b><b style="color:#FF00FF;font-family:Kristen ITC;">MY</b><b style="color:blue;font-family:Kristen ITC;">LUSTYROARS</b> 02:55, 28 December 2009 (UTC)


 * Easy and reliable way to avoid being taken for a troll: don't behave like one. Richard New Forest (talk) 17:14, 28 December 2009 (UTC)

Well Dick - do you mind if I call you Dick? - Some of us have actually studied JOHN CLARE and know what we're talking about. Knowing one's FACTS does not mak one a troll. <b style="color:red;font-family:Kristen ITC;">HEAR</b><b style="color:#FF00FF;font-family:Kristen ITC;">MY</b><b style="color:blue;font-family:Kristen ITC;">LUSTYROARS</b> 21:32, 28 December 2009 (UTC)


 * No, Richard is fine thanks. If you really have studied Clare, you'll have no difficulty finding refs for your idiosyncratic claims.  Until then there is no consensus for change, and further editing of the article as you've been doing will look very much like vandalism.  We are struggling to assume good faith – please help us.  Richard New Forest (talk) 12:24, 29 December 2009 (UTC)

Do not shake thy gory regulations at me! Until there is a consensus, I DEMAN dthat references are cited? My idiosyncratic claims? THAT'S slander. I am not the idiot here. I am just asking for a bit of the TRUTH to be for the article the JOHN CLARK article. IS THAT to much too ask? <b style="color:red;font-family:Kristen ITC;">HEAR</b><b style="color:#FF00FF;font-family:Kristen ITC;">MY</b><b style="color:blue;font-family:Kristen ITC;">LUSTYROARS</b> 19:59, 29 December 2009 (UTC)

HONESYLT a bit of decorum please? For God's sake you're arguing over three letters! MISrepresentaiton! <b style="color:red;font-family:Kristen ITC;">HEAR</b><b style="color:#FF00FF;font-family:Kristen ITC;">MY</b><b style="color:blue;font-family:Kristen ITC;">LUSTYROARS</b> 20:01, 29 December 2009 (UTC)


 * No comment needed to that. Constructive discussion only please.  Richard New Forest (talk) 22:03, 29 December 2009 (UTC)

I knew it! I win. I always win. <b style="color:red;font-family:Kristen ITC;">HEAR</b><b style="color:#FF00FF;font-family:Kristen ITC;">MY</b><b style="color:blue;font-family:Kristen ITC;">LUSTYROARS</b> 00:09, 30 December 2009 (UTC)


 * It's not a contest. The article remains as "representations", and to provide a final close to this "argument" I have provided a solid reference for the text as it stood.  Now can we please stop playing silly games.  Richard New Forest (talk) 12:49, 30 December 2009 (UTC)

You win this round, Richard. But be warned - I will be back. AND THE TRUTH WILL BE WITH ME. <b style="color:red;font-family:Kristen ITC;">HEAR</b><b style="color:#FF00FF;font-family:Kristen ITC;">MY</b><b style="color:blue;font-family:Kristen ITC;">LUSTYROARS</b> 13:43, 30 December 2009 (UTC)


 * I TOLD tyou Id be BACK!!!!!! Image:Johnswartzwelder.jpg THERE ARE COOKIES IN THE BACK OF MY VAN. 02:58, 2 April 2010 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by LustyRoars (talk • contribs)


 * Please do not use Wikipedia to play childish games. The sentence is now reffed, and there is no more discussion to be had.  Also please see message on your web page about your signature (which I have tamed above).  Richard New Forest (talk) 11:29, 2 April 2010 (UTC)

Arragh, you're right of course hirashaw. I am apologiet and revert to my Old Signature. I think it better represents - or should I say, misrepresents - what I'm all about. Ha! Ha! Ha! Just a friendly joke, Richard! Ha! <b style="color:red;font-family:Kristen ITC;">HEAR</b><b style="color:#FF00FF;font-family:Kristen ITC;">MY</b><b style="color:blue;font-family:Kristen ITC;">LUSTYROARS</b> ]] 02:17, 3 April 2010 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by LustyRoars (talk • contribs)

Northampton General Lunatic Asylum
In 1876, Northampton County Lunatic Asylum (later Northampton Mental Hospital, then St Crispin Hospital which closed in 1995) opened for pauper patients and Northampton General Lunatic Asylum (where Clare was committed in 1841) changed its name to Northampton General Lunatic Asylum for the Middle and Upper Classes. This became St Andrew's Hospital for mental diseases in 1887. Chrisieboy (talk) 19:22, 18 December 2011 (UTC)