Talk:John Duddy

Untitled
This guy is something else. He can take a shot and land a harder shot. He also is a quick learner. Pernell Whitacker critiqued Duddy's posture in the ring (during one Friday Night Fights where Whitacker was the guest announcer).... In Duddy's next fight he already addressed the issue, he was no longer standing completely straight. --jorgekluney

I've been hooked on him since his fight with Lenord Pierre on ESPN2. He's got incredible hand speed, and really knows how to box.

Capmaster 04:23, 14 June 2006 (UTC)

Does anybody else think the most recent additions from 69.119.160.58 sound a little too much like they were ripped straight from a newspaper/sportswriter article? There's some good stuff in there, but it needs a lot of work (the last few paragraphs at least).

Capmaster 04:27, 14 June 2006 (UTC)

I agree, the article needs to be formated Vintagekits

He seems to get a good underground following lately. He helped sell tickets in the Garden in the Cotto-Malignaggi undercard. Maya Levy 03:01, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

Cleanup
I cleaned this article up a bit, but we still need more, and it needs to cite its sources better. Pauric 22:53, 27 August 2006 (UTC)

I agree Pauric, and thanks for that, really appriciated.

Also with regards Duddy's nationality. This should be Irish not Northern Irish. He was born in Northern Ireland but has adopted an Irish (Eire) passport and Irish citizenship therefore his birth place in Northern Ireland but his nationality is Irish.

regards

Vintagekits


 * Grand, no problem with that myself, just the flag was the NI one, so I thought might as well change it. I'd also be careful about some of the wording relating to his nationality. Before I edited it, it said he was from the occupied counties. I have no problem with that myself, it's in fact how I refer to the north, but it's not really suitable to retain NPOV on wikipedia.
 * Pauric 16:11, 28 August 2006 (UTC)

I'm wouldnt disagree with you on that either Vintagekits

Wow, looks like you guys have really made some progress here. I moved the part about his current rankings and title(s) to the top, because I thought it fit in more with the main description than in the trivia section. Also, I attempted to cite a source for the WBA ranking, but I wasn't sure exactly how to make it show up with both the number and at the bottom. If someone else knows how to do that it would be great. It would be nice if we could go to this style of citing for the rest of the article too, since it seems like most of the more professional articles do it this way. I think it would be cool if under the fights section, we could have little recaps of each of the fights with nice formatting and everything. You can usually find pretty good summaries under Google news. They shouldn't be too hard to paraphrase. I also noticed that John is ranked in other organizations (5th in the WBO!), so I thought it might be good to include these rankings in the box under the picture. This would make them more central, and easier to update each month when the new rankings are released.

Capmaster 05:42, 22 September 2006 (UTC)

Derry/Londonderry
The recent changes here are ridiculous, can we not start getting into a points scoring exercise please?! He was born in Derry city, lets leave it at that. You willl never see an article saying boxer was born in Belfast, County Antrim or Manchester, County Lancashire. When it reads Derry, Nothern Ireland there is no doubt where he's born Dodge 13:38, 6 October 2006 (UTC)

I wasnt trying to point score - the only point I was making was is that Belfast isnt in County Belfast etc but Derry is in County Derry so I was just making the distinction between the two. Vintagekits 10:25, 7 October 2006 (UTC)
 * wasn't aimed at you Vintagekits, but there was a lot of unneccessary edits made. I think it looks grand now, is 100% perfect factually and should be left alone Dodge 11:00, 7 October 2006 (UTC)


 * fair enough, I'll leave it but still think it should be Derry City Vintagekits 12:07, 7 October 2006 (UTC)
 * Well Derry City is a disamb page that directs to Derry, so thats why it was changed. Dodge 18:48, 7 October 2006 (UTC)

Picture
Does anybody else know why the picture was removed? The person who removed it is an "administrator", but he just came in here, stripped us of our only picture, and left the rather vague comment "an image with a fair use tag which is patently unrelated to the content of the image. (CSD I7)." Does anybody know what this means? As far as I know, this image wasn't violating any rules or anything. The problem seems to be that there wasn't a good tag on the image, but if I recall correctly, there was a perfectly good tag. Anyone know anything else? I think a picture is pretty much essential for this page to not suck.

Capmaster 03:27, 4 November 2006 (UTC)

Okay, I just e-mailed Irish Ropes asking for a picture of John that we could post on this page. Hopefully they will respond!

Capmaster 05:46, 4 November 2006 (UTC)


 * I know the guys at Irish-boxing.com and some at Camp Duddy/Irish Ropes so I've added one of his promo shots - so I've sorted it Vintagekits 21:42, 10 November 2006 (UTC)


 * Thanks Vintagekits. I think the page looks a lot better with that picture.  Hopefully nobody else will come along and try to remove it! Capmaster 03:30, 12 November 2006 (UTC)

Disambiguation Page
Does anybody else think it would be safe to have the disambiguation page automatically direct to John Duddy (boxer)? I think that 95% of people who are going to be looking for "John Duddy" will probably be looking for this one, not the one involved in "The Massacre of Braybrook Street". This is amplified by the fact that the other John Duddy doesn't even have his own page, but rather just his name mentioned on the "Massacre of Braybrook Street" page. Tell me what you think.

Capmaster 05:24, 4 November 2006 (UTC)

I agree with you Capmaster Vintagekits 15:30, 10 November 2006 (UTC)

OK, I just set the John Duddy page up to automatically redirect to John Duddy (boxer). I think I'll post something in the Massacre of Braybrook Street discussion informing them of this. Capmaster 21:20, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
 * good man Vintagekits 21:39, 10 November 2006 (UTC)

Does anyone know how to put the disambiguation page back to the way it was (that is, automatically redirecting to John Duddy (boxer))? Someone seems to have taken away the auto-redirect, but when I reverted his edit, it stayed the way it was. If this person would leave a reason as to why the page should no longer auto-redirect, that might be fine, but as it is, we've made a pretty strong case (which can be found here) for the automatic redirection. If someone could figure out how to get the page to automatically redirect to this page, that would be great. Capmaster 03:15, 17 December 2006 (UTC)

Ratings Box
I added a ratings box so that it's easier to correct the ratings when they change. If you guys don't like the box, feel free to remove it/revert it. Somehow it doesn't seem on the right spot on the page, but I'll leave that for you guys to decide where to put it. Also if you think of some more organizations to put in there, feel free to add them, or if you don't think some of them belong, go ahead and remove them. Capmaster 22:33, 14 November 2006 (UTC)
 * I like, I like - its a keeper, nice and clear and as you say easy to edit/add to in future Vintagekits 13:34, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

Fight History
Does anyone think a fight history such as the ones that are on boxrec.com should be added? I'm talking about like a table that lists all of the fights, opponents, dates, rounds, and round times. I've looked around, and most boxers' pages don't have them, but nearly all of the MMA pages I've worked on do. I think it would be a big plus to have, but I'm all for uniformity on the boxing pages. What do you guys think? Capmaster 03:26, 16 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Nah Camp, I think it would be too bulky, we already have a link the Boxrec which would have the exact info anyway.--Vintagekits 20:26, 16 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Boxrec's current information of Duddy is incorrect anyways. They list his nationality as United Kingdom, when it's Irish and was confirmed to be by John's camp. 193.1.184.254 11:38, 24 October 2007 (UTC)

Awards
John was recently given two awards: the Rocky Marciano Award and the Sports Personality of the Year Award. I'm not sure who gave these out. Do you think they are significant enough to put on the page? Capmaster 22:11, 17 February 2007 (UTC)
 * oh yeah! stick them in. Also change the title to plain old "John Duddy". regards--Vintagekits 22:24, 17 February 2007 (UTC)

Nationality
Do we have a reference for him being of Irish nationality? Ben W Bell  talk  14:37, 3 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Here you go. Its a fair enough question but a relatively dangerous road to go down to request the nationality of each individual from Northern Ireland, I say this only because of the terms of the GFA which recognises the right of those individuals to be recognised as Irish, British or both - we will need an explicit reference to say that say Sammy Wilson is British or else one could equally argue that he is Irish. Were we have an individual who if distinctly recognised as one or the other then it should be recognised. regards--Vintagekits 19:17, 5 November 2007 (UTC)


 * I asked as it specifically says on the article not that he is just Irish, but links to the Republic of Ireland. That's a tad more specific than the usual ambiguous Irish, so I asked the question that was all. The reference seems perfectly fine to me. Ben W Bell   talk  23:25, 7 November 2007 (UTC)


 * John's own management have personally confirmed John's nationality. He holds an Irish passport. Under the Good Friday Agreement, people have the ability to identify with being Irish or British. John opted for Irish, and hence is Irish. The passport is issued by the Government of the Republic of Ireland and therefore, that is why it links to it. Your never-ending tirade against nationalists on Wiki is sickening Ben. When you're not changing the name of Derry to Londonderry, you're attacking any nationalist stance on here, and this is further evidence of it. John is Irish, accept it and move on with your life. Jobjobjob (talk)


 * The idea that anti-nationalism is a problem on WP (or indeed in life) is pretty ridiculous... Hakluyt bean (talk) 00:45, 21 January 2009 (UTC)

I was born in Down and have both a British and Irish passport, hence I have both British and Irish nationality. The same applies to John Duddy. And for the record, call Derry or Londondderry what you like, but it's definitely not in Ireland. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.69.102.234 (talk) 17:37, 17 March 2008 (UTC)


 * Boxingrec are generally rather good at getting this kind of thing right, so it's a shame the article has a go at them. I note they have his 'alias' as 'Ireland's John Duddy'.  Is that really a boxing alias?  They're probably trying to be even-handed.  Anyway I read he apparently still lives in Derry (when not in New York), and Derry being in the UK presumably he's a UK national as well as an Irish passport holder.  If someone can just show that he doesn't have UK nationality (has relinquished it, or whatever it is you do) then this argument goes away, his nationality is Irish.  Hakluyt bean (talk) 00:38, 21 January 2009 (UTC)


 * He hs the right to identify with whatever nationality he wants under the GFA. As stated before, he opted for Irish, and thus - he is an Irish citizen. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.101.53.17 (talk) 17:35, 25 February 2009 (UTC)

WikiProject class rating
This article was automatically assessed because at least one WikiProject had rated the article as start, and the rating on other projects was brought up to start class. BetacommandBot 16:06, 10 November 2007 (UTC)

stats plz
Height weight etc. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 151.202.85.11 (talk) 18:51, 30 December 2008 (UTC)


 * http://www.boxrec.com/list_bouts.php?human_id=213891&cat=boxer Hakluyt bean (talk) 00:47, 21 January 2009 (UTC)

BoxRec Issue
It looks like BoxRec has changed its policies and Duddy now has an Irish flag by his name. I think that calls for the removal of the BoxRec section in this bio since it's now outdated.MKil (talk) 14:41, 16 March 2009 (UTC)MKil

Nationality reference
The reference being used in the info box to support the nationality does not support Duddy's nationality. The article makes no mention of him having Irish citizenship, the closest it gets is calling him Irish in the header which, as we all know, has many meanings and to infer they meant Irish citizenship is original research. If we are going to claim someone born in Northern Ireland has Irish citizenship rather than British then we need a proper reference. It has been removed by two editors not as not supporting the claim. Again, as has been discussed on this page before and as is generally prevalent in most articles on people from Northern Ireland, the nationality is generally left out (rather than taking the British that they most likely are by birth) in lieu of a strong reference to support their nationality. If a reference can be provided to show he relinquished British citizenship (a task very very rarely done due to the red tape involved), and took Irish citizenship and carries an Irish passport, then we can use it. Someone just saying their Irish, as we know, can mean many things not just they hold citizenship from the modern state of Ireland. Canterbury Tail  talk  11:45, 21 August 2011 (UTC)
 * People from Northern Ireland are just as likely to be Irish as British. Secondly, nationality and citizenship are two different concepts. The field refers nationality. Duddy self identifies as Irish. Pretty simple really. --Ruairí Óg&#39;s (talk) 12:09, 21 August 2011 (UTC)
 * More likely to be British as the British is automatic, Irish is claimed, but that's neither here nor there for this purpose. Fair point on the nationality concept, however is there a reliable reference for that? The linked article doesn't support that either, but if he publicly self-identifies as such it should be easy to find a reference. This has been going on for several years on this article. If no reference to support it can be found it should be left neutral. Canterbury Tail   talk  12:19, 21 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Irish is also automatic. The reference provided refers to him as Irish and he wears a tricolor around his neck going into the ring. Not sure he could say it any louder unless he had it tattooed across his forehead. --Ruairí Óg&#39;s (talk) 20:21, 21 August 2011 (UTC) But even if that reference isnt enough here are a couple more. 1, 2 and 3. I hope they help. I dont like squabbles.--Ruairí Óg&#39;s (talk) 20:27, 21 August 2011 (UTC)
 * The "nationality" field in the infobox is for citizenship. JonChapple Talk 20:35, 21 August 2011 (UTC)
 * The info box documentation does not support that, it only supports it being nationality, citizenship isn't mentioned. Canterbury Tail   talk  21:41, 21 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Is it? Where does it say that?--Ruairí Óg&#39;s (talk) 20:43, 21 August 2011 (UTC)


 * The Wikipedia article on Nationality deals with both meanings of the term nationality, i.e. ethnicity and citizenship. Anyways from the recent discussions in regards to nationality in regards to UK boxers (stemming from the Joe Calzaghe) discussion, it would appear that the standard is to go with self-identification.


 * And the three new sources Ruiari provides don't back up self-identification at all and are as poor a source as the one he put into the article due to press sensationalisation or over-simplification in regards to abbreviating Northern Irish as simply Irish. Not a single one meets the self-identification rule of thumb we suppossedly have to use.


 * Until Ruiari provides a source that explicitly has John Duddy identifying as Irish to meet self-identification, then i'm removing the reference from the article. If Ruiari really doesn't like squabbles then he can hardly argue against it seeing as the source doesn't back it up and thus the most neutral path would be to leave it blank with no British or Irish. Mabuska (talk) 12:26, 22 August 2011 (UTC)
 * All three references provided refer to him as Irish, one reference even shows him draping an Irish tricolor over his shoulders. You assertion about 'press sensationalisation or over-simplification' is purely WP:OR and ignores WP:RS. There is no point in discussing it further with you and your canvassing friend Jonchapple because I have found out in my very short dealings with you that you pair are only interested in painting wikipedia in a Union Jack. I have neither the time or energy to get caught up in your games so I will wait for someone a little more sensible to arrive and straighten this mess out.--Ruairí Óg&#39;s (talk) 08:58, 23 August 2011 (UTC)


 * Please assume good faith. You have shown the hole in the sources you've provided. The sources refer to him, but he doesn't refer to himself. That is not self-identification. Could you exlain how it is? Seeing as you've reverted and put forward poor sources as an arguement against an administrator as well as two other editors.
 * Off-topic, please provide proof of canvassing, and where i'm interesting in painting a Union Flag everywhere, esecially seeing as i uphold WP:MOSFLAG which states no flags at all. Mabuska (talk) 10:48, 30 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Where does it say in the MOS about "a source that explicitly has self-identification"? You are just making things up to suit you're obvious agenda. The sources provided refer to the sportsperson as Irish and one of the sources has a picture of him wrapping the Irish tricolor around him and his nickname is 'Ireland's" John Duddy. Only an idiot would suggest that he wasn't Irish and it is a nail in the coffin that proves what editor like you are all about.
 * Proof of canvassing is here.--Ruairí Óg&#39;s (talk) 13:46, 30 August 2011 (UTC)
 * That was him warning me. JonChapple Talk 14:00, 30 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Maybe the picture would be enough to state that he is Irish, however it must be a picture in context. If he's representing Ireland then it doesn't automatically equate to him as being Irish, however if he is using it in an ordinary fight then it might be enough. However "Ireland's John Duddy" could refer to the island and not the state - so it lacks clarification. However if you kept your eye on the discussions on boxers identity Ruairi, where you only appear to slander me before going quiet, you'd see Snowded, as well as an admin, and others telling me the standard and status quo is to go with self-identification. If you'd actually read all comments and continue particpating and keep up to date on matters, you'd already know that. Mabuska (talk) 19:37, 30 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Ha ha ha ha! Am I supposed to take you serious after reading that?--Ruairí Óg&#39;s (talk) 20:59, 31 August 2011 (UTC)
 * I don't care if you do or not, i offered you a compromise, if you wish to throw it back in my face then go ahead. Mabuska (talk) 22:53, 2 September 2011 (UTC)
 * Your "compromise" is utter lunancy. I would prefer to be guided by wikipedia policy not your opinions.--Ruairí Óg&#39;s (talk) 10:39, 3 September 2011 (UTC)

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