Talk:John Williams/Archive 2

Too many lists
The "notable" films list is huge; the awards list is also long and unnecessary. I think these sections need to be removed per WP:NOT and simply replaced with a link to http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0002354/awards. Timneu22 (talk) 00:57, 14 June 2008 (UTC)


 * i think that they should stay, for the most part. the only ones i believe that might be appropriate to remove are those with out a wikipedia page, but would then need to be added when they gained their own pagehornplayer2 (talk) 06:56, 15 July 2008 (UTC)

Links in notable compositions
does anyone else think that the links for film scores in the notable composition section of this article should link to the page of the music for the respective page (if there is one). for example, i think that "star wars : attack of the clones" should link to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_Wars_Episode_II:_Attack_of_the_Clones_(soundtrack) rather than http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_Wars_Episode_II:_Attack_of_the_Clones. hornplayer2 (talk) 05:55, 14 July 2008 (UTC)

Composer project review
I've reviewed this article as part of the Composers project review of its B-class articles. This article definitely merits a B rating; like above commenters, I also take issue with the lists of works and awards -- these should be split out into "List of compositions of" and "Awards and award nominations of" articles. My full review is on the comments page; questions or comments can be left here or on my talk page.  Magic ♪piano 01:03, 22 December 2008 (UTC)

Article says Williams scored all but two Spielberg films...
And those two films are The Color Purple and Duel (TV). If you're going to count TV movies, then Williams also did not score another TV movie of Spielberg's before Duel, Something Evil. However, Williams in general did not score TV movies for Spielberg or anybody, so it's not clear if it's even fair to count this movie or Duel.

Either way, it's inconsistent with the introduction, which says he scored all but one feature film. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 91.177.135.75 (talk) 21:50, 22 June 2009 (UTC)

Actually, in the 60s and even the 70s, he actually DID score some TV movies. Jane Eyre is an example. Gingermint (talk) 01:46, 23 April 2011 (UTC)

Separate list articles?
I agree with earlier contributions, this article has too many lists, can I suggest they are split into 2 articles, such as List of awards and nominations received by John Williams and List of music scores by John Williams. Please indicate if you support or oppose...thanks. Seth Whales (talk) 08:28, 6 September 2009 (UTC)
 * I would at least support putting parts of these lists into separate articles. The awards should stay in this article, nominations could go into a separate article, though I wonder if they all need to be mentioned in Wikipedia. As for his film scores, the most notable and best-known could be mentioned in this article. A complete list of his scores could be moved to a separate article.--Sylvia Anna (talk) 14:53, 19 September 2009 (UTC)

Awards
The awards listed after the films are often misleading: they imply John Williams himself won or was nominated. That is not always true and this info should reflect Williams' achievements, not the films' achievements. Anyone care to verify all the awards he won or was nominated for? eg Memoirs of a Geisha (2005) Won 3 Academy Award Oscars, 6 Academy Award Oscar Nominations, Grammy Winner, Golden Globe Winner, BAFTA Winner - the soundtrack was only nominated for an Oscar. Jubilee♫ clipman 01:45, 15 October 2009 (UTC) As stated before there are too may lists. However, as long as the lists are present, shouldn't there be one for Academy Awards (won)? It seems silly to have Golden Globes, Emmys, Grammys, but hen only Academy Award Nominations (ecluding wins) Spaceman13 (talk) 19:36, 17 October 2009 (UTC)

Passage on music played after Obama's election victory speech
I have again revomed the following passage from the article's introduction, which keeps being put there by an IP:

"Williams' theme music from the film The Patriot was played after Barack Obama's election victory speech. "

IMHO, this definitely doesn't belong there. And it seems I am not the only to think so as I am not the only one who has removed this passage in the past. If it is notable at all for this article and the reference is appropriate (a live blog) it should be put somewhere else. The introduction is for more general and essential information than that.

--Sylvia Anna (talk) 16:12, 24 October 2009 (UTC)


 * In my opinion the place for it would be in article The Patriot (film) rather than in the composer's article. Ks0stm (T•C•G) 02:45, 25 October 2009 (UTC)

Compositional Style section
Anyone who has ever written an essay in high school can tell that this section is an essay written for a class. It contains first person, original research, and unsourced claims. Unless it's re-written to be more encyclopedic and sources added for its assertions, it doesn't belong here. For now I am removing it per NOT. Forteblast (talk) 17:48, 26 October 2009 (UTC)

The Olympics
It is claimed that JW has composed the music for four Olympics; however, it is clear from the text that at least one was not for the Olympics proper (i.e. commissioned by the arranger or the IOC), but for an individual broadcaster. The section should be re-written to not overstate his honours in this regard. (I refrain from an own change, because the status of the other three instances is unclear, and may necessitate further revision).94.220.243.230 (talk) 18:09, 12 November 2009 (UTC)

Composer for 'Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows part 2' - not confirmed, only speculation
John Williams has not yet been confirmed as the composer for 'Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows part 2'. His rejoining the HP franchise (after a gap of 6-7 years) is nothing but pure speculation. As far as I know, Alexandre Desplat has been confirmed as the composer of 'Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows Part 1', with the composer of Part 2 not yet confirmed. So, how did JW's 'confirmation' make it to Wikipedia? Is this the handiwork of some overzealous JW fan? And, IF he has been confirmed, can someone post a confirmatory news link regarding the same? 59.184.135.45 (talk) 13:15, 17 March 2010 (UTC) good film harry potter deathly hallows part 1 know if he is working on that?

He wasn't the man; it was Desplat. This phrase: "Williams was asked to return to score the film franchise's final installment, Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows – Part 2, but director David Yates stated that "their schedules simply did not align" as he would have had to provide Williams with a rough cut of the film sooner than was possible[35]," makes no sense, nor did it make any sense even when one supposed Williams would be the composer for the Deathly Hollows. What is this "but" supposed to mean? That he didn't return? Why then Yates gave him the cut? The link does not work anymore. Any way you look at it, makes no sense leaving it. 83.149.45.176 (talk) 22:06, 15 October 2016 (UTC)Dmitry

Ethnicity
Does anyone know Mr. Williams' ethnic origin? I must admit that I had always thought of him as an Englishman until my attention was drawn on this Wikipedia article stating that he's American. But he must be of English origin... ;-) -- Orthographicus (talk) 17:13, 13 March 2011 (UTC)
 * His last name would suggest an English origin, but thats just speculation, as his ancestry could be quite mixed, especially in America. I can't say exactly, but what improvement, if any, would it bring to the article?--Jojhutton (talk) 17:22, 13 March 2011 (UTC)

The surname 'Towner' is also of English origin. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 94.174.68.21 (talk) 15:22, 6 October 2012 (UTC)

Irrelevant Star Wars links
The links for "Emperor's Theme," "Parade of the Ewoks," and "Luke and Leia" (at the end of the section about the Star Wars themes) are confusing because they don't link to pages/sections about those pieces of music, but rather, to the pages for the characters. Can't we just leave the titles in place without hyperlinks, until someone wants to write about the pieces themselves? I'd do the edit myself, but for some reason I don't see any edit links on the page. --192.76.7.222 (talk) 19:00, 26 March 2011 (UTC)

Paragraph discussing his pseudo-involvement in "Superman Returns" completely unnecessary - endemic of article weaknesses
The overall weakness of this Williams article goes to the problems with the scoring subsection and its details regarding the scoring of various films, all of which should be delegated to the entries on the films themselves rather than lumped together here into a massive subsection. Can we please delete the paragraph in this section beginning with "In 2006..." which goes into depth on how a non-Williams scored movie was influenced by his music??? Please second this idea in a comment if you read this and agree. Bottre73 (talk) 18:23, 30 March 2011 (UTC)

I think you're correct, the 2006 paragraph is mostly irrelevant. John Ottman deserves some recognition about Superman Returns on his own page, but not here. The scoring section should also be an overview of his career, but parts can be gutted if they become overly detailed. Jg2904 (talk) 21:38, 30 March 2011 (UTC)

Peter Gunn riff
The article credits JW with performance of the "opening riff" of Mancini's PG theme. Unless JW also worked as an electric guitarist (which I'm inclined to doubt), this is mistaken. The style of the riff is a clear reference to Duane Eddy, who may or may not have been the performer. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.205.84.24 (talk) 04:03, 25 May 2011 (UTC)
 * There is a guitarist of the same name. So he might have played that.--Sylvia Anna (talk) 17:46, 25 May 2011 (UTC)
 * I've had a look into the second source (9) given for this. There - you have to scroll down about half of the page - it is listed under "albums, pianist". So he played piano on it.--Sylvia Anna (talk) 18:05, 25 May 2011 (UTC)

plagiarism
There's been a notable deal of plagiarism by John Williams over the years... a couple of examples and lists of court dates and lawsuits would be a good addition to this article. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.249.6.204 (talk) 03:27, 17 October 2011 (UTC)


 * If you have sources, then it would be great if you could add it. AdventurousSquirrel (talk) 03:30, 17 October 2011 (UTC)

I was about to make a similar suggestion. Film composers have traditionally -- and shamelessly -- filched classical music. (Even as great a composer as Bernard Herrmann stole from Bartok (Psycho, Journey to the Center of the Earth) and at least one contemporary British composer (Marnie).) Only last night did I realize that "Hedwig's Theme" from Harry Potter is not very far-removed from the Siciliene from Faure's Pelleas et Melsande. WilliamSommerwerck (talk) 16:31, 16 November 2011 (UTC)

Since most of the "plagiarizing" he's done comes from classical music that's already in the public domain, I don't think there are too many "court dates" to list, if any. That was a silly comment from someone who doesn't understand either law or film composing.

67.180.44.133 (talk) 07:22, 18 December 2011 (UTC) the cow goes moo — Preceding unsigned comment added by 204.185.163.2 (talk) 20:23, 9 February 2012 (UTC)

Research on 2 1970's Movies Directed, Written & Scored by Williams
Hi. Where are the 2 films (I only know of 2 but don't remember their titles) that John Williams wrote, acted in, directed & scored? They are not included on any of the user-contributed websites that dominate this topic, but that does not mean they don't exist. Shouldn't they be here also? Stevenmitchell (talk) 11:29, 9 March 2012 (UTC)


 * Hi, does anyone know of the two feature films that John Williams wrote and directed (and, of course, scored and possibly conducted the music for)? If those two films are not included, this article is never complete. I saw the films on cable from their broadcast inception, twenty or so years after their original creation, so I know that they exist, but they are not included at all in this article which purports to be complete. Neither of the films was very successful when they were released, as I had never heard of them at the time of their release. It was also the 1970s when film was thought to be on its last legs, and clearly in demise. I would think they never made it to DVD because hardly anyone ever saw them. Can anyone find these films? Stevenmitchell (talk) 09:13, 10 December 2017 (UTC)

Requested move August 2012

 * The following discussion is an archived discussion of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section. 

The result of the proposal was RESULT – request withdrawn by proposer. dave souza, talk 07:48, 21 August 2012 (UTC)


 * John Williams → John Williams (composer)

– Wow, the John Williams (disambiguation) page lists no fewer than 134 people of this name (not including the 'See also' section). No, I haven't tallied up page views, but I very much doubt that this is still the primary topic. I also suggest that there would be a load of incoming links that don't want to point to this article, but where editors were just too lazy to check that their link points to the right article. I see that the suggested article name exists already as a redirect, but I have to admit that I don't understand the very fist edit summary. If this goes ahead, I'd be happy to help with cleaning up incoming links.  Schwede 66  00:11, 21 August 2012 (UTC)
 * John Williams (disambiguation) → John Williams


 * Oppose - John Williams, is clearly the primary topic. Is internationally known, and recognized without any need for disambiguation. Most of the other Williams listed are perhaps regionally well known, but not the same level as the well known composer mentioned here. Example and for fun video. Yes Yes not encyclopedic, but nice tribute.--Education does not equal common sense. 我不在乎  04:10, 21 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Comment - I don't have a problem with you suggesting that of all the John Williams, this one is the best known. But that is not what determines a primary topic: "A topic is primary for a term, with respect to usage, if it is highly likely—much more likely than any other topic, and more likely than all the other topics combined—to be the topic sought when a reader searches for that term." That's straight from the definition of it. I note that it says 'more likely than all the other topics combined'; I take it you are just unaware of this definition, and are not suggesting that this person is better known than the other 134 people together?  Schwede 66  04:46, 21 August 2012 (UTC)
 * (edit conflict) Um, I am very well acquainted with the notion of primary topic, and with John Williams having such wide recognition, he is the person that would be the most likely, "with respect to usage", and is more likely than all the others combined, when a reader searches. --Education does not equal common sense. 我不在乎  05:07, 21 August 2012 (UTC)


 * Oppose - not sure if everything in WP:PRIMARY is gospel, but even by that definition I would think John Williams is more likely than all others combined. Certainly that's what a quick Google Books search indicates. In ictu oculi (talk) 05:01, 21 August 2012 (UTC)
 * And for sure under the second "definition" of primary topic: "A topic is primary for a term, with respect to long-term significance, if it has substantially greater enduring notability and educational value than any other topic associated with that term."--Education does not equal common sense. 我不在乎  05:10, 21 August 2012 (UTC)

Seeing as it's being used, perhaps we should remind everyone of the "primary topic definition":

So we can know what the discussion is centered around.--Education does not equal common sense. 我不在乎  05:18, 21 August 2012 (UTC)


 * I withdraw the move request. I have gone through the page views and for June 2012, the other pages add up to some 45,500. This page gets consistently more views. Well, you learn something new each day.  Schwede  66  06:25, 21 August 2012 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Grammy Awards Table
The Grammy Awards table is messed up for Close Encounters of the Third Kind. I think every entry for it got shifted over one cell to the right. I wanted to fix it but couldn't figure out the formatting. 216.96.152.222 (talk) 20:34, 9 February 2013 (UTC)

Star Wars Episodes 7, 8, and 9
Will John Williams compose new music for the upcoming movies? If not, who will take over?71.243.221.134 (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 01:24, 14 November 2012 (UTC)

I agree, this needs to be mentioned in the article--even if it's to say that he's not going to do it or that it's not known. 216.96.152.222 (talk) 20:15, 9 February 2013 (UTC)

Family dates
Is 1953 correct for Williams marriage to Barbara Ruick or for Joseph Williams birth? Barbara Ruick page says their marriage was 1956, unsourced, and Joseph Williams page says his birth was 1960, also unsourced.

90.202.219.78 (talk) 09:20, 2 June 2014 (UTC)

It appears that John Williams has extensively revised his Cello Concerto. I heard the new version in a recent broadcast by the Houston Symphony on KUHF-FM. I am informed that the same program is presently available (2/15) on demand via the APM/APR program SymphonyCast. I could find no specific information regarding the changes or when they were made. According to the KUHF-FM film music show producer (Brad Sayles), Yo-Yo Ma had not known of the changes until the rehearsals for the 2013 Houston concert. Film Music Listener Buff (talk) 19:59, 27 February 2015 (UTC)

Is tagging really necessary?
This is not a controversial figure. I see there are some edits reverted, but the tag makes it look like there's somebody with something negative to say on this subject which seems unlikely. Also he won the first Oscar for Fiddler on the Roof, deserves chrono order in lede. Lycurgus (talk) 16:05, 21 March 2015 (UTC)

His first score
The link attached is to a CBC news article of Mr. Williams first score in the production of a tourism video for the province of Newfoundland and Labrador. The 1952 video is embedded in the article.[|http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/newfoundland-labrador/star-wars-composer-john-williams-first-score-a-1952-newfoundland-film-1.3241603]HJKeats (talk)

Where's the music?
I'm surprised to see that there are only three sentences in the entire article concerning Williams's compositionial style, motifs, orchestration techniques etc. I would be bold, but I'm unversed in such technicalities. Gareth E Kegg (talk) 01:31, 5 November 2015 (UTC)

Midway
I was working when the movie "MIDWAY" began, and I was listening to the opening score. I thought "gee, that's an amazing score -- I wonder who did it?"

Well, I was not shocked that it was JW. Yet, no mention of this famous WWII movie is made on JW's site. IT SHOULD!!!

2600:8800:4480:1E00:B81F:1F02:EC76:C05 (talk) 00:10, 1 November 2016 (UTC)