Talk:Josefa Iloilo

Comments
Who disrupted this? Lusanders (talk) 22:29, 10 April 2009 (UTC)

Where the heck is the article???? --Jonathansuh 17:19, 10 April 2009 the president did not endorse the reconcillation bill.

please read Speech from the Throne and understand that this speech is written by the goverment, and is read on behalf of the government.

Whether he agrees personally or not, his only proper course of action in the westminster system is to read what is put in front of him.

--Xorkl000 07:48, 17 August 2005 (UTC)

He has retired
Xork1000, Ratu Josefa Iloilo has now retired. There is an acting President of Fiji who is involved in talks between the Fijian Government & Commodore Frank Bainimarama in an attempt to prevent a coup. - (Aidan Work 04:37, 17 January 2006 (UTC))


 * He has not retired, rather he has announced that he intends to retire this march. The reason there is an acting president is because he is currently overseas, not because he has retired. --Xorkl000 05:30, 17 January 2006 (UTC)

Out of office
I don't believe Bainimarama has removed him from office; rather I think Bainimarama is acting as president with executive powers while not assuming the office. My knowledge of the situation is limited but this is what I gather from reading the media reports about it; since Iloilo seems to have consented to the coup I doubt Bainimarama would actually formally remove him from office. Rulers.org is saying that Illoilo remains president but Bainimarama is acting on his behalf, for instance. Everyking 04:36, 6 December 2006 (UTC)
 * The President did not consent to the coup. He issued a statement at 5pm yesterday refuting earlier reports that he had signed the necessary decrees. Andrew Hughes (the exiled police commissioner) has accused Rupeni Nacewa, the President's secretary (and a former Army officer) of fabricating the decree.  David Cannon 09:40, 6 December 2006 (UTC)
 * All right then. I thought that because I remembered reading that he'd met with Bainimarama and asked Qarase to either accept the demands or resign. Everyking 09:55, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

I came across explicit confirmation in an AP article just now that what I was saying was accurate: "President Ratu Josefa is still technically the country's president, although Bainimarama said Tuesday that he had assumed presidential powers." Therefore I revised the recently added paragraph. Everyking 09:19, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

I find it vexing that I have provided two sources here to back up what I am saying and David hasn't provided anything. The situation is in enough of a gray area as it is. What is David saying the situation is? Does he think Bainimarama has formally taken over the presidency in addition to his assumption of executive powers? That's possible but I can't find a bit of evidence to back it up. The evidence for what I'm thinking is the case is quite limited but at least it exists and has been presented here. Please provide some sources. Everyking 00:44, 11 December 2006 (UTC)


 * Bainimarama has not formally assumed the presidency. But if you read Fijian newspapers online (Fiji Times, Fiji Live, Fiji Village, or Fiji Sun, you'll find that he's now got the President isolated from his own people (his tribe, of whom he's the chief, is being denied access to him) - that amounts to house arrest.  His close associate, Ratu Epeli Ganilau (a former Military Commander) said yesterday that Iloilo is not coming back. (Source: Fiji Sun.  It's disappeared from their website - news stories on the Sun last for only one day.  But keep an eye on the Fijian media yourself, and you'll see it again). I know Ganilau denies being a party to the plot, but I know him. He knew more than he's letting on.


 * I have been following this guy for six years now, and am a lot more familiar with his ways than most people are. He's following exactly the same script that he executed in 2000, when he removed Ratu Mara from office: he had assumed presidential powers "temporarily" and Mara would be reinstated "soon" - which turned out to mean never.  I've seen this guy's moves before, Everyking. He's no stranger to doubletalk and manipulation.  What he's doing is trying to create a semblance of legality - Thailand style.  Please be more discerning when you read news reports.


 * Anyway - consider these facts:


 * 1. Iloilo was elected by the Great Council of Chiefs for a 5-year term back in March.
 * 2. Bainimarama claims to want the Great Council of Chiefs to meet to "elect" Iloilo.


 * That means that even if he does intend to reinstate Iloilo, he has formally dismissed him for the time being. There would be NO POINT asking the GCC to ELECT him if he was, in fact, still in office. You certainly don't have an election to elect somebody who's term hasn't expired and who is currently in office. David Cannon 09:57, 11 December 2006 (UTC)


 * Your analysis of Bainimarama's actions is entirely plausible to me. In saying that Iloilo was president I didn't mean to imply that I was taking what Bainimarama was saying at face value; I was simply concerned with the technical situation of who is formally president. Iloilo being treated like a prisoner doesn't mean he can't technically be considered president. I guess what you're saying is that the presidency is formally vacant? The problem is you're making a good argument, but that's not the same as a fact that can be cited. Everyking 10:44, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

His powers have now been restored. However, the December–January period is still being represented as a break in his time in office in the infobox. Does the restoration of power alter the argument we had here about whether he was technically president during that period? Everyking 06:59, 4 January 2007 (UTC)
 * It's open to question. I suppose it depends on de facto versus de jure, but I would need to ask a lawyer about that.  I'll ask Xorkl000 (I don't know whether he's a lawyer or not, but he seems well-versed in the law). David Cannon 08:52, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

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