Talk:Joseph Whittaker

Herbarium image
I wonder if a less heavily cropped image would be better used here, as it would show the herbarium label and the plant's source at Breadsall, where Whittaker resided. Parkywiki (talk) 16:31, 6 December 2010 (UTC)

Meaning of 'A.B.S.E.'
Whilst research on Joseph Whittaker's biography over many years I have been singularly unable to determine the meaning of the letters 'A.B.S.E.' after Whittaker's name on his gravestone. This would be a great challenge for a Wikipedian, as it clearly must have meant something to be included so prominently on his inscription. We've ruled out such things as 'Associate of the Botanical Society of Edinburgh'. For anyone visiting Morley Churchyard near Derby to look for his gravestone, it is located on the far left side of the churchyard (when facing the church from the site entrance), beneath a holly tree on the graveyard perimeter.) I'll try and get a photo to upload to Commons in due course. --Parkywiki (talk) 11:40, 15 October 2012 (UTC)


 * Could this have been a degree? For instance, in the states A.B. were the initials for what is now a B.A. degree. BSE = Bachelors of Science in Engineering (not a great fit here it seems) - OR - a botany degree is also sometimes called a degree in Environmental Science. Just a rough, rough, rough guess.–CaroleHenson (talk) 20:49, 25 July 2018 (UTC)
 * See Bachelor of Environmental Science - doesn't have that acronym there, but you get the point.–CaroleHenson (talk) 20:52, 25 July 2018 (UTC)
 * Well, it could be - and I was not aware of that - but he never travelled to the US as far as we know - just Australia in the 1840s. We've worked through all those acronyms we thought might be logical. What we still need is some WP:RS to put us on the right track. I've just realised I've not uploaded that grave picture yet - must dig it out (no pun intended). Nick Moyes (talk) 20:57, 25 July 2018 (UTC)


 * Ah,, so A.B. was a U.S. thing.


 * I found one thing... abse. re. Law absence red (Latin: the defendant being absent) here. Perhaps he had a sense of humor and it was a riddle? Out of guesses, but it was fun poking around.–CaroleHenson (talk) 21:01, 25 July 2018 (UTC)

I have found several other people with the same abbreviation, as follows: Alexander Croall (noted in a British seaweeds book of 1859 where the first author William Grosart Johnstone is F.B.S.E) John Laing (1893, in an advert in a gardening newspaper) Mr Andrew Kerr of Montrose (1854, in an advert in the gardener's chronicle, regarding alpine plants) I think it likely there is a Scottish connection, and the Croall/Johnstone book strongly suggests the F would be Fellow, and the A would be Associate for the same society. Can you maybe say how you ruled out Botanical Society of Edinburgh as a possibility? DrThneed (talk) 01:19, 22 June 2020 (UTC)

Returning to say that this membership list shows Joseph Whittaker as an Associate Member of the Botanical Society of Edinburgh, from their Transactions and Proceedings 1881–1883. DrThneed (talk) 01:35, 22 June 2020 (UTC)
 * Huge thanks to you (and to the Twittersphere) where my latest attempt to trace the meaning took you good folk all of an hour to solve! For the life of me (and it was 25+ years ago that I, and a counterpart in Australia did the research into Whittaker) I cannot now remember why it was that we discounted ABSE as Associate of the Bot Soc Edinburgh. But discount it we very definitely did. I can only assume that I wrote to the Bot Society of Scotland to enquire, as this study was made quite slowly over many years, and I became quite fixated on this unusual local character. Interestingly, I never found the portrait of himself that he bequeathed in his will tyo a resident of Derby, so maybe that'll be my next challenge to pursue! Nick Moyes (talk) 02:05, 22 June 2020 (UTC)

Herbarium specimens at Derby Museum
This article states that there are 2,200 Joseph Whittaker herbarium specimens at Derby Museum, England. Since the paper on which this article is based was published (of which I was a co-author), I arranged for the herbarium collection at Derby Museum to be catalogued. In reality we found there are now only 600 herbarium sheets collected by J Whittaker at Derby, not 2,200 as originally thought. Unfortunately the list is unlikely ever to be placed in the public domain, so I recognise my revised figure can't be treated as a reliable source, or used in the article, but felt it was worth adding to this talk page. Parkywiki (talk) 11:21, 17 May 2016 (UTC)
 * I've removed the 2,200 figure as it seems to be in doubt. Thanks for the tip. If the 600 figure was mentioned by the Herbaria site or an on-line edition of the flora??? then we could quote that. All the best Victuallers (talk) 06:43, 18 May 2016 (UTC)

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