Talk:Journal of Discourses

Publication
According to the photocopies online at BYU, the introduction to volume one is dated June 1853, but the title page is dated 1854. --Blainster 21:50, 27 April 2006 (UTC)

Issues
Here are some issues I have with this. A lot of the "doctrines" in the last paragraph are misrepresented as such. Isn't Adam-God theory a term made up outside of the church in order to twist what Young really meant? How accurate are these journals really considered to be, today? It makes it sound like the church used to believe this stuff and then dropped it, but that isn't necessarily the case. It's just too vague on these issues, for me. Wrad 05:32, 30 April 2007 (UTC)


 * It can be argued either way, IMO, and the article should probably reflect that. I like what you have done to the article, personally. -SESmith 10:13, 30 April 2007 (UTC)

Yeah, sorry about my previous edits. You know how it is when you change something and then look at it and actually don't like it after all? Wrad 16:17, 30 April 2007 (UTC)


 * Absolutely. No problem—sometimes it takes a few tries. -SESmith 22:12, 30 April 2007 (UTC)

"However, this usage arose some time after the quotation given above, and Mormon scholars do not believe it to be the sense in which Cannon uses it.[citation needed]". It isn't cited and the quotation where George Canon says it is a standard work is from the first sentence of the preface to volume 8 of the journal of discourses. I don’t think the quotation is being taken out of context. By default, it should be assumed that George Canon is asserting that the journal of discourses is doctrine by calling it ‘one of the standard works’. A good citation is needed if we are going to assert this is not the case. As it is now, I think that sentence needs to be deleted. Jaldenpage (talk) 00:51, 16 July 2013 (UTC)


 * As requested, I have added a citation to a scholarly Mormon site that directly addresses the issue. Dromidaon (talk) 15:55, 16 July 2013 (UTC)


 * See links normally to be avoided #12. Open wikis usually aren't a good choice for citations. A better citation may or may not be needed. If the sentence were rephrased, some of the citations in that wiki might be able to be used. Jaldenpage (talk) 00:44, 17 July 2013 (UTC)


 * Fairmormon.org is not an open and editable wiki. It is a closed wiki of LDS scholars maintained by the Foundation for Apologetic Information and Research. I would also have to argue that this meets the requirement of being an exception as addressed in your same bullet point "with a substantial history of stability." Dromidaon (talk) 19:25, 17 July 2013 (UTC)


 * I agree that fairmormon.org is probably an OK citation to use, since it is a closed wiki and pretty much sets out the positions advanced by FAIR. Good Ol’factory (talk) 21:00, 29 July 2013 (UTC)

journalofdiscourses.com
An external link to the "journalofdiscourses.com" website has been added a few times and removed by me and other editors. I have concerns about this website and its reliability. (Also, a side issue—I tried to access "journalofdiscourses.com" from my work computer, and my access was restricted to it by my employer because the website has been flagged as containing pornography. Not sure what that's all about, but it's further reason to regard the website as somewhat sketchy at best.) Good Ol’factory (talk) 21:24, 4 February 2013 (UTC)
 * I reviewed many pages and all are exact copies of the JD. I think the website was parked until recently, so filter issues aren't surprising. The site doesn't have ads, javascript, sketchy external links, or trackers. Google has deemed it ok. I don't have a dog in this fight, so if you can find a reason to omit it, like incorrect information or harmful content, be my guest. — Preceding unsigned comment added by M1475963 (talk • contribs) 23:52, 4 February 2013 (UTC)
 * We have another couple of links that contain PDF scans and texts, I'm not sure that we need a third. Good Ol’factory (talk) 02:56, 5 February 2013 (UTC)
 * The site in question appears to be non-neutral in content. Initial review of the material appears well organized, and I do not have the time to cross reference the content for accuracy. However when reviewing the quote section on the site it appears to contain mostly out of context excerpts of quotes that are commonly used in a biased manner to degrade the Mormon religion. In my opinion, this is not material suitable for an encyclopedia. I prefer to use content that does not tend to have it's own agenda behind it. In cases of religious documentation, I prefer a photographic archive, which in this case is already provided in the external links section. Dromidaon (talk) 16:06, 5 February 2013 (UTC)
 * Good Ol'factory: As for not needing a third source (though it should be noted that the BYU source only has PDF scans), I wish you had mentioned that concern earlier. It seems disingenuous now. At any rate, JournalOfDiscourses.com has the advantages of an internal search function, sorting by speaker, good speaker portraits, additional information on each speaker, an intuitive navigation, etc.
 * Dromidaon: Quotes section? Are we looking at the same website? Send me a link to the quotes section. If you're looking for a disinterested source (though I'm not sure why that's necessary for the JD), we shouldn't link to either MRM or BYU; neither is a neutral source for information on Mormonism. M1475963 (talk) 07:02, 6 February 2013 (UTC)
 * How could I mentioned that concern earlier when it just occurred to me when I wrote the above? Don't accuse other editors of being "disingenuous". Assume good faith. Good Ol’factory (talk) 20:56, 6 February 2013 (UTC)
 * who is hosting and maintaining journalofdiscourses.com? I can't find any information on that. 72Dino (talk) 14:42, 6 February 2013 (UTC)
 * We are indeed talking about the same site. The link has been removed since this conversation has occurred. It was found by the copyright notice at the bottom of the screen and linked to mormonquotes.com. The way back machine found at web.archive.org indicates that the website journalofdiscourses.com forwarded the domain to mormonquotes.com up until at least 2007.( Compare your address bar to the page) The forward then changes in 2010 to a different site.


 * A whois result for journalofdiscourses.com and mormonquotes.com indicates that the domains are registered through the same entity. Both registrars are Enom, Inc through namecheap.com. The authoritative DNS servers for these domains are the same servers, ns3709.hostgator.com and ns3710.hostgator.com. The official owner of both domains is blocked by WhoisGuard.  Dromidaon (talk) 17:22, 6 February 2013 (UTC)