Talk:Juan Moya

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The grammar in this article is atrocious. "captain of Mexican army" ffs? This looks like it was generated by a less than optimal machine translation or written by someone with a poor grasp of English rules of grammar.

I also question the notability of the subject matter and neutrality of the article. I suspect it was written by a descendant of Moya's. Only one source cited, and THAT source is, well, just plain wrong. Juan Moya was never accused of murdering the Swift family. What happened was this: Marcello Moya, not Juan, was suspected of tipping off a man named Juan Flores (who was eventually convicted of the Swift murders) that there was a warrant out for his arrest in relation the Swift murders. This allowed Flores time to flee to Mexico to avoid arrest.

The Swift murders had been particularly brutal - Irene Swift had been stabbed 25 times and dumped in a hog pen.

No mention is made of the fact that the one of the Moya's had murdered one of Capt. Henry Scott's men the next day when they attempted to bring Marcello in for questioning. Which of the three Moya's present at the scene was responsible is unknown, as the fatal shot was fired through a small loophole cut in the adobe wall of the Moya abode. This murder, committed by one of the Moyas, was in fact what instigated the lynching, not the Swift murders. Also, all three Moyas were lynched, not just Juan.

Also no mention of the fact that Moya was more of a terrorist guerrilla, rather than a Mexican army regular per se (no record of an officer's commission is known to exist for him, so claims that he was a "Captain" are dubious at best), on the side of Mexico in the Texas War for Independence, and had a history of harassing the local Anglo settlers. He gave aid to none other than the brother in law of Santa Ana himself, putting him up at his own ranch.

As a side note, Juan Flores was eventually apprehended in Mexico and returned to the US where he stood trial for, and was convicted of, the murders of Tad and Irene Swift.

Tell the whole story. In better English please.


 * About the spelling, I sorry the article was misspelled. However, I do not master English very well. Fortunately, other users helped me spell better. Regarding the information of the article, I only found information about from a website. The source I used is a copy of another website (copy that was made when the original page was removed, when changed the format of it). The online encyclopedia is the same for both pages: "Handbook of Texas Online" and in the page you could see the sources where the information came from: These sources are eight books. The books are reliable sources because they are based on a large bibliography that has a significant research background. I did also look for several books about the Canary emigration to Texas in a library in my city, but although those books had information about notable Canarian settlers and Texas´s settlers descendants, those books do not mention anything about John Moya (although they served to increase the information from other biographical articles I've edited). I can not get information out of nothing. The information in the article is what I found. However, you can add more information to the article if you put the references where the information came from (the information you give me is very interesting, but it needs written references to verify it). You are free to Incorporate it.--Isinbill (talk) 20:35, 4 July 2011 (UTC) Or you can also tell me the source from which come your information and I will incorporate it in the article (I do not want putting information in the article without references)--Isinbill (talk) 00:02, 6 July 2011 (UTC)

Unnecessarily harsh and xenophobic. Thank you to the original author of this post for gathering this information and I agree with your response post - if these are accurate accounts of Juan Moya, then they ought to be cited and added to the article. In response to the Swift discussion - according to the Texas History Association, Juan Moya and his 2 sons were accused - if that isn't the case then that is something you ought to cite and change. John Vitzileos (talk) 08:32, 14 August 2015 (UTC)

New Edits & Disputes Over Agustin
I made an important edits:

I think there is a dispute between who Agustin was. The original post said Juan Moya had 3 siblings (one of them being Agustin). In the Texas History Association, they refer to Agustin as the son of Juan Moya - the first son that he had with his wife while he lived in Goliad. The same site also says that Jose Miguel Delgado had 3 sons which would mean Juan Moya only had 2 brothers. The original google book that was used to refer to Agustin as his brother says that land was granted to "brothers Agustin and Juan" but I think that could be a common mistake because when Agustin was young, he was granted land next to his father's land in Bee County - it is possible that this book misinterpreted them as siblings because they inherited land at the same time when Agustin was quite young. Additionally, I think the Texas State Historical Association is correct because the information for that clip was gathered from libraries in Texas and is explicitly intending to map out Moya's life while the book that refers Agustin and Juan as siblings only says it in passing therefore I believe is has much more credibility because the authors were likely to be more deligent about researching and figuring out Moya's background.

The only other edits were just cleaning up some of the language and adding some information like names of the ranches, counties, etc.

John Vitzileos (talk) 08:42, 14 August 2015 (UTC)