Talk:Julia the Younger

Untitled
How about some dates? In Tacitus, Julia's death is put in AD 29, but not precisely: he simply says, "This was about the time when Julia died." I can't give the exact reference (my Penguin translation isn't that precise), but it's somewhere between IV.70 and IV.73. I've put c. AD 29. As for her birth date, that's given in the page for Julia the Elder as 19 BC, although no references are given. However I've added that at the beginning of the article. Anna Lowenstein (talk) 15:05, 3 November 2009 (UTC)

I read in a recent historical book that Julia the Younger was well-known for her high living and she even boasted that she owned the "smallest pet dwarf" in the city. I read more about this in another book which also mentions this... are there any historical writings that back this up? --80.193.32.171 20:59, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

In Barrett's biography of Agrippina, I find the following sentence: "Julia the Younger was married to Lucius Aemilius Paullus, consul in AD 1 and they produced a daughter Aemilia Lepida but beyond this we know very little of her earlier life, apart from Pliny's remark that Julia owned the largest house in Rome and the smallest dwarf." (Chap. 2, p. 21 in the 1996 paperback edition.) Barrett gives no reference, and I can't find this comment in Pliny - neither the Elder nor the Younger. Anna Lowenstein (talk) 15:00, 3 November 2009 (UTC)

Hello, I have a quick question. Is Vipsania Julia supposed to be the object or desire "Corinna" in Ovid's poems, or was it her mother Julia, the daughter of Augustus? --80.193.19.191 19:13, 9 April 2006 (UTC)


 * I think that if it was anyone in particular, it was probably Julia Caesaris, not Vipsania Julia. I have read that, Ovid watched how Vipsania Julia carried out her affair, and Augustus may have even blamed his daughter and granddaughter's behaviour slightly on Ovid's poems. Consequently, Ovid went into voluntary exile.--Camblunt100 15:58, 21 April 2006 (UTC)

@Anriz: Please don't destroy *precise* references, to replace them by generic ones; see also talk:Julia Caesaris. Afaik, Vipsania Julia's alleged remarriage-after-being-sent-in-exile is still unreferenced. Couldn't find anything about it in Suetonius either. --Francis Schonken 13:43, 10 March 2006 (UTC)

I have been typing articles for Wikipedia since June 2004. I am just trying to help out. I was the one who typed the original Vipsania Julia aritcle and many articles associated with the Julio-Claudian Dynasty and on various Romans. I appreciate what you are doing to the articles. Thank you very much for updating the references to Vipsania Julia and the various Julia Caesaris articles. Anriz. 12 March 2006


 * Hey Anriz, what exactly is your problem? Could you explain? --Francis Schonken 09:09, 13 March 2006 (UTC)

There is no problem! Anriz, 14 March 2006

This may come as a silly question, but did Vipsania Julia and her brothers remaind in Rome with Augustus, or did they travel with Agrippa and Julia to the East Provinces? --Sophie-Lou 13:07, 6 April 2006 (UTC)
 * Yes, I think she did. All of them went together. --80.193.19.191 19:13, 9 April 2006 (UTC)

Regarding Julia the Younger's name, it seems that she was simply called 'Iulia' or 'Iulia Minor' (cf. PIR2 I 635 and Raepsaet-Charlier, Prosopographie des femmes, nr. 813, pp. 635-636 where she's however listed as 'Vipsania' Julia). The nomen gentile of 'Vipsania' is not attested but since she was the daughter of Vipsanius Agrippa, it has been inferred as part of her full name.

In the Wikipedia article Roman naming convention, it is clearly said that Roman women were officially known only by the feminine form of their father's nomen gentile but by the late Republic, women also adopted the feminine form of their father's cognomen. We may add that they sometimes received their cognomen from their mother's or grandmother's side (for instance, Domitia Lepida, granddaughter of Aemilia Lepida). However, with the Roman Empire, upper class women seemed to have introduced a new practice consisting of giving up their nomen gentile to retain only the more prestigious elements of their name. This was probably the case for the daughters of Julia the Elder, who wanted surely to stress their relationship to Augustus' "divine" Gens rather than to the 'lowly' Vipsania Gens. This might explain why Julia the Younger and Agrippina the Elder don't wear a nomen gentile on any inscription. A similar situation is observed for Poppaea Sabina, whose father was Titus Ollius but who preferred to be named after her mother, and for Flavia Domitilla III, granddaughter of Vespasian, who gave up the use of her nomen gentile (probably 'Petilia' inherited from her father 'Petilius Cerialis') for the name of her mother (daughter to Vespasian) who was made a Diva and an Augusta. --Junillus 30 April 2006


 * I believe it is historians who refer to her as "Julia the Younger" because technically she wasn't "minor" to Julia the Elder. Julilla is the term I tend to use, sometimes she is referred to as Iulilla or Julilla ("Little Julia") but that is probably a recent distinction too. The name of Julia the Elder was Julia Caesaris whereas Julia the Younger's name was Vipsania Julia Agrippina. Then again, "Vipsania" Julia is a mouthful so they may indeed have just called her Julia. Some historians just refer to her as “the other” Julia, so it is quite likely. --Sophie-Lou 14:45, 26 May 2006 (UTC)

Julio-Claudian template
as far as I can see this template is quite irrelevant in the article on this person (the template doesn't indicate where she's situated). Note also that that template contains errors.

For this article I'd support replacing it by a limited family tree extract of her immediate relatives, for example by using the familytree template. Anyone having a problem with that?

Lay-out
I'd treat the naming issues before the biographical content. I'd make the title of the biographical content biographical notes and not life (really, there aren't enough data available to consider the few bits we have a "life" description). Footnotes at 100% (why should it be smaller than standard size?). And some other minor tweaks. --Francis Schonken 16:30, 31 May 2006 (UTC)

M. Aemilius Lepidus
I removed the part where it says that Marcus Aemilius Lepidus was her son. The family tree in Barrett's Caligula: The Corruption of Power on page 83 indicates that this particular Lepidus is the son of man of the same name and whose wife is unknown. This detailed family tree of the Julio-Claudian Dynasty also indicates this. --Spacekraken (talk) 01:07, 15 January 2008 (UTC)
 * This correction had to be restored. The previous error was found in other articles, as well.72.199.110.160 (talk) 21:14, 17 October 2011 (UTC)

Why is she called Julia Caesaris Minor when her father is not a Julius Caesar?
It may be easy to understand that she is called Vipsania Agrippina like her half-sister, since her father was a Vipsanius Agrippa. But is there any confidential source that says she was called Julia Caesaris also? The name Julia Minor makes sense, since she was named Julia after her mother, so she was her mother's junior. But Caesaris? This cognomen was generally used to state the certain relationship between one individual to their father, however, in other cases, their mother or another further ancestor. Caesaris, in some articles I have read, more indicated one being a Caesar's daughter than his granddaughter (for one instance, G. Julius Caesar the Elder's granddaughter was commonly known as Atia, if any, Atia Balba, but not Atia Caesaris), so if Julia was called Julia Caesaris, she was likely the rare case that use the female form of her grandfather's cognomen as hers, didn't she?—Thắng L.Đ.Q. (talk) 09:56, 6 May 2015 (UTC)