Talk:Julius Nyerere/GA1

GA Review
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Reviewer: ManfromButtonwillow (talk · contribs) 05:51, 30 January 2020 (UTC)

Hello! I’ll be taking on this review starting tomorrow most likely.. I bought several books on Nyerere in anticipation of working on this article, but didn’t do anything with them. Very excited that you have taken it on

ManfromButtonwillow (talk) 05:51, 30 January 2020 (UTC)
 * Any news on this, ManfromButtonwillow? If you're no longer able to commit time to the review, don't worry; you can always ask for a "second opinion" at GAN. Midnightblueowl (talk) 16:51, 1 March 2020 (UTC)
 * I don't think ManfromButtonWillow is still active at Wikipedia - or at least, they are on an extended and unannounced Wikibreak. For that reason I am going to request a second opinion, which will essentially have to represent a replacement for the primary reviewer. Midnightblueowl (talk) 12:34, 9 March 2020 (UTC)

Drive-by comment
From the section Economic crises with War with Uganda: 1971–1979: "The entire process also damaged Nyerere's population with the rural population." Do you mean Nyerere's reputation? Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 15:22, 21 February 2020 (UTC)
 * I do indeed! Well spotted, Hanif. I'll make the correction in the article text. Midnightblueowl (talk) 14:17, 27 February 2020 (UTC)

Comment
About the War with Uganda: 1971–1979 section: As the article currently states, Nyerere wanted to overthrow Amin from the outset with his own army. Obote maintained this, but most independent sources I've found say that Nyerere originally wanted to avoid becoming entangled in an invasion of Uganda and over time grew convinced that it was necessary to expand Tanzania's involvement, particularly when Libya intervened. This also led to a significant dispute at the OAU conference in the summer of 1979, as other heads of state accused Nyerere of acting contrary to the OAU charter and he had to defend his actions. Me and another editor have recently overhauled the Uganda–Tanzania War article, where this information is presented and can be incorporated here. There's also more that could be added about the Mogadishu Agreement and the deterioration of relations between Nyerere and Amin from 1971 up until the outbreak of the war. -Indy beetle (talk) 04:19, 5 March 2020 (UTC)

Review from JerrySa1
Julius Nyerere, a controversial African leader whose attempts to bring his country out of mediocrity brought him to a level above the middling leaders that came before and after him, on the level of other figures like Sankara and Kagame. A rather interesting choice for a GAN. I see that the reviewer hasn't commented since saying he would take this one, so I'll assume he's abandoned it. Anyways, onto the article. I've just skimmed it, and so far I haven't seen any problems which would lead to a quickfail, everything looks like it's backed up by a source, and the sources themselves look reliable. I might have a problem trying to see if I can verify some of these statements seeing how they're books, but I'll see if there are online versions that I can use. I'm not used to articles where the vast majority of sources are from books.

Though I would add that I did a check of the external link section and the last one about the University of Edinburgh is a dead link. More comments coming soon. Jerry (talk) 23:01, 2 April 2020 (UTC)


 * Apologies for not responding for a couple weeks, I forgot that I took up the review. Though I will try to complete this review in due time.
 * For images, everything seems to be fine except for a couple exceptions. Images in the public domain, CC0, etc. are accepted licenses for images. So it passes that criteria for a GA. Looking at the article, I notice there are many red links. While having some redlinks are fine if what is being linked could be a stand-alone article (including people like Derek Bryceson and David Makwala), I don't think all of these apply. Some links such as those for people like Othman Shariff, or Elisha Kavana, and other redlinks like that for Colito Barracks, are probably not deserving of an article. A couple others have existing articles but link to the wrong thing. The Tanganyika Standard now goes by Daily News (Tanzania), Radio Tanzania Dar es Salaam already exists, and Mirisho S. H. Sarakikya has an article called Mrisho Sarakikya, (for the latter I don't know which is the correct spelling). There are likely a few more articles which already exist and are as I stated, though I'll leave it to you to make judgements on what to do on that front, though I had the liberty of making some changes myself, feel free to revert those if you disagree.

I also noticed that Nyerere's half brother is referred to by two different names, though articles mentioning him call him "Edward Wanzagi Nyerere" or just "Edward Wanzagi". Also the link I mentioned previously is still dead. More to come.Jerry (talk) 18:58, 19 April 2020 (UTC)
 * Thanks Jerry ; apologies for the delay, I hadn't seen your most recent post. Will get onto it now. Midnightblueowl (talk) 10:53, 30 April 2020 (UTC)
 * I have removed the deadlink that you pointed out in the External Links. Well spotted. Midnightblueowl (talk) 11:23, 30 April 2020 (UTC)
 * I have piped a wikilink through to Mrisho Sarakikya. Midnightblueowl (talk) 11:23, 30 April 2020 (UTC)
 * Ideally, I'd like to see every redlink currently in this article eventually go blue, but that probably won't occur until we get more East African editors on board. In that case, I don't mind removing some of the redlinks, as you suggest. Midnightblueowl (talk) 11:23, 30 April 2020 (UTC)
 * When you specify that Nyerere's brother was given two separate names, what did you mean? I don't quite understand. Midnightblueowl (talk) 11:28, 30 April 2020 (UTC)
 * Thank you for that all, and as for the part about his brother-in-law, I made an error in referencing what was in the article. I saw wikilinks to both "Edward Wanzagi Nyerere" and "Wanzagi Nyerere", which I assumed referred to the same person. The wording was rather unclear.

When it comes to redlinks in general, my rule-of-thumb would be not to do this if the thing mentioned is mentioned only once in the article and/or doesn't meet WP:GNG. Many of the figures in the article definitely do meet the latter, so I have no problems with some of the redlinks in the article. I bring this up because it's obvious when reading the article, and it seems almost like overkill. That said, it's not against wikipedia policy or anything, though if you're bringing it to FAC, it might be mentioned. Overall, there aren't many problems with the article, and while there are some I can point out, I don't think they're enough to prevent the article from giving it GA status. Tomorrow I'll list a couple of closing issues before doing so.Jerry (talk) 01:27, 1 May 2020 (UTC)
 * "After 1965, Tanzanian-U.S. relations gradually improved." - How so?
 * To be honest, I don't have access to the book cited at this juncture anymore. I would suspect it simply means that diplomatic channels gradually returned to normal but without access to that source I wouldn't want to change the article text. Midnightblueowl (talk) 12:13, 4 May 2020 (UTC)


 * Seif Sharif Hamada should be changed to Seif Sharif Hamad
 * A good point! Changed. Midnightblueowl (talk) 12:03, 4 May 2020 (UTC)


 * " In 1992 the Zanzibari government" - Add a comma after 1992
 * Added. Midnightblueowl (talk) 12:03, 4 May 2020 (UTC)


 * "In this, he was influenced by the recent events in the Rwandan genocide, during which members of the Hutu majority had turned on the Tutsi minority." - Wording is somewhat clunky.
 * I've reworded this sentence as the following; "These concerns were influenced by the recent events of the Rwandan genocide, during which members of Rwanda's Hutu majority had turned on its Tutsi minority." Midnightblueowl (talk) 12:03, 4 May 2020 (UTC)


 * " In one of his famous speeches during the CCM general assembly, Nyerere said in Swahili "Ninang'atuka", meaning that he was pulling out of politics for good." - Might be a good idea to add a direct translation of what he said here.
 * I've reworded this sentence as follows: "In a speech at the CCM general assembly, Nyerere indicated that he intended to pull out from politics altogether." It's shorter and to the point. Midnightblueowl (talk) 12:13, 4 May 2020 (UTC)

That's all for now, when these points are dealt with, I'll promote the article. Jerry (talk) 22:22, 1 May 2020 (UTC)
 * Just going through old second opinion templates and seeing if I can help. This one seems pretty sorted, but thought I would just check to see if anything more is needed. AIRcorn (talk) 04:18, 2 May 2020 (UTC)
 * If you have any thoughts yourself, just put them here, it's fine by me. I was going to close the review today after my last points were dealt with, but I have no problem with you putting whatever you think needs to be fixed.Jerry (talk) 15:47, 2 May 2020 (UTC)
 * I had, an admittedly quite superficial, look through and the article looks great. AIRcorn (talk) 19:32, 2 May 2020 (UTC)

Sorry for waiting until the end of the day to respond, but seeing how you've gone through everything, I guess I should Pass this article. Congrats, and good luck on bringing this to FAC.Jerry (talk) 03:05, 5 May 2020 (UTC)