Talk:July 2023 Jenin incursion

Refs
Plenty around

Selfstudier (talk) 16:33, 3 July 2023 (UTC)

Palestinian casualties
Piece currently claims that "Among the 12 Palestinian fatalities, four have been claimed as Islamic Jihad militants, and one as a Hamas militant." This is incorrect. As Reuters notes, "[Israel] said all the Palestinians killed were armed fighters. Islamic Jihad claimed eight as members, with Hamas claiming another." — Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.93.116.136 (talk) 18:38, 10 July 2023 (UTC)

Forces per IDF
According to Israeli news, they say the forces are numbered in "brigade size". A brigade in the IDF is between 3,000 to 7,000 soldiers. I can bring up many sources, unless you have something more accurate. Amir Segev Sarusi (talk) 06:50, 5 July 2023 (UTC)


 * You can also add in the "reaction" part in Israel that amongst Jewish MKs in parliament, both opposition and coalition supported the operation. Amir Segev Sarusi (talk) 06:52, 5 July 2023 (UTC)
 * However, most international sources don't have an estimate anywhere near 3,000 never mind 7,000.
 * FT today says "hundreds of troops".
 * CNN "Though the IDF spokesman declined to comment on the number of forces involved, he said it is around a brigade, which is approximately equivalent to at least 500 soldiers." (contradiction)
 * The sources I have seen over last couple days attribute varying estimates from 500 to 2000 to the IDF who are possibly deliberately misleading on the point. Selfstudier (talk) 13:02, 5 July 2023 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 5 July 2023
"2,000 soldiers" the number is incorrect and should be 1,000 soldiers 5.28.178.90 (talk) 12:48, 5 July 2023 (UTC)
 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. Lightoil (talk) 13:03, 5 July 2023 (UTC)
 * See preceding section for discussion about this, I think we need clarity but don't think we have it just yet. You edit req has no source? Selfstudier (talk) 13:03, 5 July 2023 (UTC)

IDF death count
So what's the real IDF death count? It's definitely not 1. There are videos showing multiple dead IDF in body bags being stretchered out in Jenin. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.48.127.79 (talk) 16:43, 5 July 2023 (UTC)


 * I was gonna comment on that, the death count is definetly 5+ if not 10 even, due to video proof and evidence suggesting this.
 * The IDF have a menacing history of covering up truth about deaths in their ranks.
 * Usually they cover they're soldiers deaths by announcing Israeli deaths abroad in accidents. Which all of a sudden started happening really often after the Battle of Jenin 2023. 80.220.169.198 (talk) 16:49, 6 July 2023 (UTC)

Sources, please.Selfstudier (talk) 16:59, 6 July 2023 (UTC)
 * Here is a source from a media outlet: https://twitter.com/TheCradleMedia/status/1676346841896550401
 * 69.157.246.93 (talk) 14:22, 7 July 2023 (UTC)

Relevant material
[https://www.nytimes.com/2023/07/05/world/middleeast/israel-military-jenin-palestinians.html Israel’s Major Incursion in the West Bank Is Over. Did It Solve Anything? - New York Times]

Not sure where exactly in the article to add some of this:

Mooonswimmer 04:21, 7 July 2023 (UTC)
 * "But the episode lacked any deeper strategy and could even spur more violence and revenge attacks, analysts said."
 * “I think that one of the most immediate and obvious outcomes of this Israeli operation — or on our side, the term used is aggression — is a dramatic increase in public support for resistance” against Israel, he said, adding, “One of the casualties of it is the Palestinian Authority, which is further marginalized.”
 * "Television images on Wednesday showed angry crowds of Palestinian mourners at the funerals of those killed in Jenin expelling Palestinian Authority officials who had come to pay their respects."
 * "According to Tamir Hayman, a former Israeli military intelligence chief and now the managing director of the Institute for National Security Studies at Tel Aviv University, the “tactical excellence” of the operation, meaning the military’s quality intelligence and precision in locating and destroying targets, obviated “the need to think about strategy.”
 * "Israeli and Palestinian analysts said the Israeli operation could also spur revenge attacks."
 * "Israeli officials emphasized from the outset that the incursion was never intended to conquer r hold territory in Jenin. Nor was it intended to keep Israeli forces out of Jenin for the long run. Rather, it has created conditions in the camp, such as removing roadside bombs, that might make future raids easier — at least for a while."


 * There are a few "analysis" articles popping up here and there, "https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2023/07/07/israel-us-biden-west-bank-violence-status-quo/" and "https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2023/07/05/jenin-explained-israel-west-bank/, https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2023-07-05/ty-article/.premium/israels-jenin-operation-shows-how-much-everything-and-nothing-has-changed/00000189-2653-d145-a1e9-3777a4ed0000 , https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/jul/03/history-repeats-israeli-attack-jenin-war-zone-again are others.
 * Not sure if there are enough of them yet for a separate section. Selfstudier (talk) 10:34, 7 July 2023 (UTC)
 * Maybe a subsection in the "Reactions" section? Mooonswimmer 14:50, 7 July 2023 (UTC)
 * Here's another https://foreignpolicy.com/2023/07/07/jenin-raid-operation-israel-success-terrorism-strategy-west-bank-palestinian-authority/ If we can round up a couple more I think we can have an analysis section, I don't really see analysis as being a reaction myself. Selfstudier (talk) 11:36, 8 July 2023 (UTC)
 * https://www.nytimes.com/2023/07/05/world/middleeast/israel-military-jenin-palestinians.html and
 * https://www.ft.com/content/4c540c22-6691-438b-92e5-a5b5d9761205
 * That's probably enough for a section. Selfstudier (talk) 16:52, 11 July 2023 (UTC)

There is a minor mistake
Hi!, there is a minor mistake at the date, it's says the incursion was in between the 3rd and 5th of July, But at the duration of the incursion it say that it lasted for 5 days That's it! Mygoatman (talk) 19:47, 8 July 2023 (UTC)

property damage


יורם שורק (talk) 08:44, 9 July 2023 (UTC)

Orphaned references in July 2023 Jenin incursion
I check pages listed in Category:Pages with incorrect ref formatting to try to fix reference errors. One of the things I do is look for content for orphaned references in wikilinked articles. I have found content for some of July 2023 Jenin incursion's orphans, the problem is that I found more than one version. I can't determine which (if any) is correct for this article, so I am asking for a sentient editor to look it over and copy the correct ref content into this article.

Reference named "CNN": From January 2023 Jenin incursion:  From Hezbollah:  

I apologize if any of the above are effectively identical; I am just a simple computer program, so I can't determine whether minor differences are significant or not. Feel free to remove this comment after fixing the refs. AnomieBOT ⚡ 17:07, 18 July 2023 (UTC)

Septemeber events redirect here
Noticed that in the current events page the incursion in mid-september had a link to this, Should a new article be created? 199.80.250.132 (talk) 16:55, 20 September 2023 (UTC)


 * Which September incursion? The one just now with 4 dead? We wouldn't normally create articles for each and every incursion, there are too many, but if you think the particular circumstances warrant an article, go for it. [Edit] Wait, you will have to get someone to do it for you, as an IP you cannot really create an IP area article. Selfstudier (talk) 17:10, 20 September 2023 (UTC)

Liars
Am I the only one who noticed how it went from Hamas victory to Israeli victory? 2Hello👋 (talk) 19:18, 29 October 2023 (UTC)