Talk:Jumping the Broom

Change This Article Title
Instead of having the title of this page italicized, I think the title should be [Jumping the Broom (movie)]. How do I do this? Thank You. 69.140.66.37 (talk) 09:54, 26 April 2011 (UTC)


 * Movie titles are always italicised; that is a Wikipedia 'house style', agreed through consensus - see WP:MOSTITLE.


 * There is no need to add a 'disambiguation' term (ie 'movie) in parenthesis, because we only have one article with this name. Again, Wikipedia agreed convention is to use the specific name, and only add something in brackets if there is a need to distinguish between two articles which would otherwise have the same title, such as "Foo (Book)" and "Foo (Movie)" - see WP:PRECISION.


 * In general though - and to provide a thorough answer to your question;


 * The title is italicised because the article uses - that is, the box at the top right of the article. As all film titles are italicised, that template automatically italicies italicises * page titles when it is used.
 * To rename an article, we move it. Unregistered users and new users cannot move pages, and would make a request on the page Requested moves.


 * However, such a request, in this case, would be rejected.


 * If you have further questions, please ask - but, please use on your own user talk page - User talk:69.140.66.37 - instead of here. Thanks,  Chzz  ►  10:02, 26 April 2011 (UTC)

Chzz, Hello. 'italicies...the word isnt 'italicise/italicize'? I meant instead of just being italicised it should have movie in parentheses. I ay so because currently this article doesn't come up in the search box. Only the marital custom jumping the broom does and the 2008 movie "Noah's Arc: Jumping The Broom" does as well. 69.140.66.37 (talk) 10:32, 26 April 2011 (UTC)


 * Yes, 'italicies' that was a typo.


 * I did not know about the lower-case Jumping the broom - so, yes, OK, it should be disambiguated and should have a 'hat note' mentioning the other article. I'll do that.  Chzz  ► 12:40, 26 April 2011 (UTC)


 * Done. Although, I must note that as far as I can tell, the article does not meet the notability guidelines (especially per WP:CRYSTAL) and should therefore probably be deleted.  Chzz  ► 12:46, 26 April 2011 (UTC)

I moved it back. Please note that this was moved from Jumping the Broom (film) just in February. It's perfectly OK to have two articles whose titles differ only by capitalization. Please see WP:PRECISION. In any case (no pun intended) the preferred qualifier per WP:NCF would be "(film)" rather than "(movie)". Other than that, I agree with what Chzz has said. The way to request a controversial move is through WP:RM. I do see both "Jumping the broom" and "Jumping the Broom" in the search box, though. Station1 (talk) 05:45, 27 April 2011 (UTC)
 * Station1, hi. I do not see anything in WP:PRECISION that indicates it is not acceptable to add a parenthetical clarification when articles differ only in capitalizations. Of course, it says that concise titles are generally preferred but it also says titles of separate articles have different forms, but with only minor differences. and gives an example, Capitalization: WASP vs. Wasp - where the former redirects to a disambig page. I have checked other guides, and cannot find anything to definitively support your assertion that the clarification is not desirable. I accept that it may be "perfectly OK" to have two articles, but I also think it can cause considerable confusion in searching. Am I missing something in a policy/guideline? I do accept that "film" is apparently preferred to "movie" though (per Naming conventions (films) and the discussions), and so I will try to remember that in future - thanks.  Chzz  ► 07:03, 27 April 2011 (UTC)
 * The example at WP:PRECISION that I was thinking of was Red Meat vs red meat. Erik mentioned Panic Room vs panic room in his edit summary. The general principle, I believe, is that article titles that are not identical to other titles are not in conflict, so should be at their most concise and natural name, with any confusion handled by hatnotes.  This makes it easier to search for and link to the correct name. For example, someone typing "Jumping the Broom" with caps is more likely to be searching for or linking to the film than someone searching in lower case. This has come up a number of times in RM discussions, and there are others who feel as you do.  It would be perfectly acceptable to move this back to its original title at Jumping the Broom (film) and then start a WP:RM about this particular case. Station1 (talk) 15:15, 27 April 2011 (UTC)
 * P.S. Another consideration is that readership has already quadrupled since Feb and with a May 6 release date, readership will likely skyrocket next month, making this the primary topic at least for a while. It's probably not the best moment for a name change. Station1 (talk) 15:46, 27 April 2011 (UTC)
 * Thanks for responding. I'm not especially concerned wrt this specific article; I feel the hatnotes provide adequate clarification. However - especially considering you're aware the issue has arisen before - I think we should clarify the guide itself. The best place for such a discussion would seem to be on the talk page of that guideline, so I'll start a thread, Wikipedia talk:Article titles, and see how it goes from there. Thanks again,  Chzz  ► 01:57, 28 April 2011 (UTC)

Okay, what happened? The article was moved by Chzz to 'Jumping the Broom (film)' (not movie bc film is corrct proper term). Then it was moved back by Station1,citing that the article was retitled/moved in February from 'Jumping the Broom (film) to its current 'Jumping the Broom'; and saying this movie is controversial. What is controversial about the retitling/moving? Station 1 says that since this movie (or film if your prefer) is coming out next week interest in this article will peak so it isnt a good time to change article title. However IMO that is a reason to give it the best title/clearest easiest title. Station1 still reverted the article back to 'Jumping the Broom' saying RM must be done--What is RM? Station 1 you are right in that this article is a primary topic, so why not have it have the best title? 69.140.66.37 (talk) 12:35, 28 April 2011 (UTC)


 * 1. 12:41, 26 April 2011 Chzz moved Jumping the Broom to Jumping the Broom (movie)
 * 2. 05:29, 27 April 2011 Station1 moved Jumping the Broom (movie) to Jumping the Broom
 * And that's where we're at, as of now.  Chzz  ► 13:00, 28 April 2011 (UTC)
 * And 'RM' refers to "requested moves", for which the shortcut is WP:RM - that is the venue to discuss any potentially controversial move, if debate is needed.
 * As I understand things, Station1 believes that there is no necessity to change the article name, because articles with titles which only differ in capitalization do not need different names. That is interpretation of the guideline; my own interpretation differs, and I've raised that on the talk page of the guideline itself, viz. Wikipedia talk:Article titles.
 * With regards to this specific article, I personally do not think that a move is necessary at this time, but if the user 69.140.66.37 (or indeed anyone else) thinks it should be renamed, then posting the request as per instructions on WP:RM would be the way to proceed. Best,  Chzz  ► 13:44, 28 April 2011 (UTC)
 * Hello, 69.140.66.37. I agree with everything Chzz just said, but would like to elaborate. This article was originally at Jumping the Broom (film). In February, User:Erik moved it to Jumping the Broom. I happen to agree with that move. On 26 April, Chzz moved it to Jumping the Broom (movie). I think he now agrees "(movie)" was the wrong qualifier. I moved it back to where it had just been. I believe Jumping the Broom is the best title for this article, for two reasons: (1) There is no other article needing this precise title, so no need for disambiguation of the title itself; (2) Even if one disagrees with that, the film is the WP:PRIMARYTOPIC -- the thing most people are looking for -- for the phrase "Jumping the Broom", so it should get the plain title and jumping the broom would get a parenthetical qualifier. By having the WP:PRIMARYTOPIC at the plain name it is easier for people searching for "Jumping the Broom" to get where they want to be without either typing "film" in the search box or having to click through a disambiguation page or hatnote on an article they are not looking for. Nevertheless, if you still disagree with the February move, we can ask an administrator to move this back to Jumping the Broom (film) and I can then start a WP:Requested moves discussion to move it to Jumping the Broom; or you can start a discussion yourself immediately by following the instructions at WP:RM. Station1 (talk) 18:58, 28 April 2011 (UTC)
 * I accept that "(film)" is preferred over "(movie)" per guidelines, yes.
 * I'm not convinced this is primary topic though; it's just a movie, not even released yet - whereas, the marital custom has been in existence for over a thousand years, in various cultures of the world.  Chzz  ► 02:43, 29 April 2011 (UTC)

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