Talk:Köke Temür

Rename to Kökö Temür?
It looks like the spelling Kökö Temür is much more common than Köke Temür in print: Amazon Koke Temur vs Amazon Koko Temur, Google Books Koke Temur vs Google Books Koko Temur

Should this article be renamed? Or is there some reason behind the current transliteration? --Billgordon1099 (talk) 18:22, 18 January 2008 (UTC)


 * My guess is that the current transliteration is from classical Mongolian script for "Blue" (=Köke) plus "Iron" (=Temür). I am actually not that good at reading classical Mongolian script yet, but judging from the transliteration table given in that article, final "e" and final "ö" are distinct enough to rule out any confusion originating from that transliteration. My guess is that either transliterating the word from the classical script's "blue" is for some reason deemed questionable, or, IMO more likely, the "Koko" is just a left-over from the time when the Mongolian designation of Lake Qinghai was transscribed into Koko-nur instead of Köke naγur -i.e. from some antiquated transscription. But you should really look for "Köke Temür", not for "Koke Temur". Yaan (talk) 12:43, 21 January 2008 (UTC)
 * P.S. I think User:Nanshu might be more qualified to comment on which Romanization is better. He seems to have been inactive for some weeks now, however. Yaan (talk) 14:37, 21 January 2008 (UTC)

Sources for ancestry
These sources say Koke Temur (Wang Baobao) had a Chinese father and a Turkic mother (probably a Buddhist Uighur). ( In the article is says his mother was the daughter of a Mongolian prince (does "Mongolian prince", mean "ethnic Mongol", or does it just mean that it could be a Turkic prince who had a title granted to him by the Mongols?) The Ming Hongwu Emperor married Koko Temur's sister to his own brother Zhu Shuang after capturing her.

http://books.google.com/books?id=SQWW7QgUH4gC&pg=PA522#v=onepage&q&f=false

http://books.google.com/books?id=1M5wAAAAMAAJ&q=Koko+Temur+sister&dq=Koko+Temur+sister&hl=en&sa=X&ei=OVdKUtmgNJi14APM64GgBw&ved=0CEsQ6AEwBA

http://books.google.com/books?id=aU5hBMxNgWQC&pg=PA23&dq=Koko+temur+sister&hl=en&sa=X&ei=0k9KUqGHHZK-4AOSw4GIBg&ved=0CDgQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=Koko%20temur%20sister&f=false

http://books.google.com/books?id=tyhT9SZRLS8C&pg=PA128&dq=Koko+temur+sister&hl=en&sa=X&ei=0k9KUqGHHZK-4AOSw4GIBg&ved=0CD4Q6AEwAQ#v=onepage&q=Koko%20temur%20sister&f=false

http://books.google.com/books?id=Fo4wAQAAIAAJ&q=Koko+temur+sister&dq=Koko+temur+sister&hl=en&sa=X&ei=0k9KUqGHHZK-4AOSw4GIBg&ved=0CEMQ6AEwAg

http://books.google.com/books?ei=91JKUqGlB8b54AOGoIDYDQ&id=Fo4wAQAAIAAJ&dq=Another+brother%2C+Chu+Shuang%2C+married+the+sister+of+Koko+Temur+%28d.+1375%29+at+a+time+when+Chu+Yuan-+chang+was+soliciting+his+support+in+the+struggle+against+the+Mongols.+Koko+Temur+decided+against+supporting+Chu%27s+cause%2C+however%2C+and+Chu+...&q=Koko+temur+sister#search_anchor

http://books.google.com/books?id=067On0JgItAC&pg=PA724#v=onepage&q&f=false

http://books.google.com/books?id=067On0JgItAC&pg=PA727&lpg=PA727&dq=koko+temur&source=bl&ots=5PBruLq-I8&sig=l03AxYE2HeLZkNMaGwQQxZ3GKRU&hl=en&sa=X&ei=nGVRU7adGpasyAS224AQ&ved=0CGsQ6AEwCQ#v=onepage&q=koko%20temur&f=false

http://books.google.com/books?id=tyhT9SZRLS8C&pg=PA114#v=onepage&q&f=false

http://books.google.com/books?id=tyhT9SZRLS8C&pg=PA21#v=onepage&q&f=false

http://books.google.com/books?id=tyhT9SZRLS8C&pg=PA23&dq=koko+temur&hl=en&sa=X&ei=amZRU53zBs3jsAT8moDQAQ&ved=0CFUQ6AEwBw#v=onepage&q=koko%20temur&f=false

http://books.google.com/books?id=JWpF-dObxW8C&pg=PA1279&dq=koko+temur&hl=en&sa=X&ei=tm1RU9KjDcvksAThhYHgCw&ved=0CGAQ6AEwCQ#v=onepage&q=koko%20temur&f=false

http://books.google.com/books?id=Y38YAwAAQBAJ&pg=PA64&dq=chaghan+wang&hl=en&sa=X&ei=rP74U_iKH8KxyATHqoHoAg&ved=0CEUQ6AEwCQ

http://books.google.com/books?id=se_OWGwQ_dcC&pg=PA64&dq=chaghan+wang&hl=en&sa=X&ei=rP74U_iKH8KxyATHqoHoAg&ved=0CD8Q6AEwCA

http://books.google.com/books?id=yzWsAAAAIAAJ&pg=PA59&dq=chaghan+wang&hl=en&sa=X&ei=rP74U_iKH8KxyATHqoHoAg&ved=0CCMQ6AEwAw#v=onepage&q=chaghan%20wang&f=false

page 69

http://books.google.com/books?id=PWBwAAAAMAAJ&q=chaghan+wang+baobao&dq=chaghan+wang+baobao&hl=en&sa=X&ei=a__4U-vzGsSVyASc1IDADQ&ved=0CCUQ6AEwAw

page 8

http://books.google.com/books?id=CtRwAAAAMAAJ&q=chaghan+Temiir+wang&dq=chaghan+Temiir+wang&hl=en&sa=X&ei=9v_4U7vaHIn9yQTP8oG4CQ&ved=0CCIQ6AEwAzgK

Red Turban war

http://books.google.com/books?id=Z6MBAAAAQAAJ&pg=PA325&dq=chaghan+kuku&hl=en&sa=X&ei=dAH5U76yKcSbyATt7oH4Ag&ved=0CBQQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=chaghan%20kuku&f=false

http://books.google.com/books?id=0644AQAAMAAJ&pg=PA325&dq=chaghan+kuku&hl=en&sa=X&ei=dAH5U76yKcSbyATt7oH4Ag&ved=0CBsQ6AEwAQ#v=onepage&q=chaghan%20kuku&f=false

http://books.google.com/books?id=e4PErdXlLhwC&pg=PA325&dq=chaghan+kuku&hl=en&sa=X&ei=dAH5U76yKcSbyATt7oH4Ag&ved=0CCEQ6AEwAg

page 326

http://books.google.com/books?id=amFtAAAAMAAJ&q=chaghan+kuku+timur&dq=chaghan+kuku+timur&hl=en&sa=X&ei=hQH5U_XjKMO1yATp0IGoBg&ved=0CCkQ6AEwAw

Rajmaan (talk) 18:28, 18 April 2014 (UTC)

http://books.google.com/books?id=SQWW7QgUH4gC&pg=PA522#v=onepage&q&f=false

http://books.google.com/books?id=1M5wAAAAMAAJ&q=Koko+Temur+sister&dq=Koko+Temur+sister&hl=en&sa=X&ei=OVdKUtmgNJi14APM64GgBw&ved=0CEsQ6AEwBA

http://books.google.com/books?id=aU5hBMxNgWQC&pg=PA23&dq=Koko+temur+sister&hl=en&sa=X&ei=0k9KUqGHHZK-4AOSw4GIBg&ved=0CDgQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=Koko%20temur%20sister&f=false

http://books.google.com/books?id=tyhT9SZRLS8C&pg=PA128&dq=Koko+temur+sister&hl=en&sa=X&ei=0k9KUqGHHZK-4AOSw4GIBg&ved=0CD4Q6AEwAQ#v=onepage&q=Koko%20temur%20sister&f=false

http://books.google.com/books?id=Fo4wAQAAIAAJ&q=Koko+temur+sister&dq=Koko+temur+sister&hl=en&sa=X&ei=0k9KUqGHHZK-4AOSw4GIBg&ved=0CEMQ6AEwAg

http://books.google.com/books?ei=91JKUqGlB8b54AOGoIDYDQ&id=Fo4wAQAAIAAJ&dq=Another+brother%2C+Chu+Shuang%2C+married+the+sister+of+Koko+Temur+%28d.+1375%29+at+a+time+when+Chu+Yuan-+chang+was+soliciting+his+support+in+the+struggle+against+the+Mongols.+Koko+Temur+decided+against+supporting+Chu%27s+cause%2C+however%2C+and+Chu+...&q=Koko+temur+sister#search_anchor
 * I removed one of your sources which is evidently wrong, because Zhu Shuang was Zhu Yuanzhang's son, not brother. Timmyshin (talk) 01:54, 16 November 2018 (UTC)