Talk:Kalākaua's 1881 world tour

Apocryphal story
"The Prince of Wales paid many attentions to Kalākaua, hoping to sway him away from the United States. As kings are more highly ranked than most other titled individuals, he insisted on giving Kalākaua precedence ahead of his brother-in-law, the Crown Prince of Germany and responded to German objections by saying, "Either the brute is a king or else he is an ordinary black nigger, and if he is not a king, why is he here?""

This this reddit post seems to indicate this story is apocryphal with the earliest reference from 1931. KAVEBEAR (talk) 09:00, 6 February 2022 (UTC)


 * Not 1931, someone on that reddit thread traced it to Charles Dilke's diaries, who was Under-Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs at the time and met Kalakaua. There are many RSs discussing the incident, none of them treat it as apocryphal. https://archive.org/details/lifeofsircharles01gwynuoft/page/414/mode/2up 1177BC (talk) 01:40, 24 February 2022 (UTC)
 * Ok, that makes more sense. I still don't think we can cite the Prince's intentions ("hoping to sway him away from the United States"). Dilke's diary seems to be a fair source to cite for this incident. KAVEBEAR (talk) 23:40, 11 April 2022 (UTC)

Japanese imperial naming conventions
The older Prince Komatsu Akihito was the half-brother of Prince Higashifushimi Yorihito but the younger prince succeeded to the title of the older prince in a father-son situation so you will have sources calling them that. Each prince changed their names multiple times due the practice of adoption and imperial creation of new house/names for Japanese imperial princes, I changed the names of the two Japanese princes to reflect their names in 1881. KAVEBEAR (talk) 19:05, 3 May 2022 (UTC)

Requested move 13 June 2022

 * The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion. 

The result of the move request was: Not Moved (non-admin closure) >>> Extorc . talk  04:07, 20 June 2022 (UTC)

Kalākaua's 1881 world tour → World tour of King Kalākaua – Sounds more formal, and most other articles with similar titles are formatted this way ("(year) (event) of (person)" rather than "(person)'s (year) (event)")  interstate five   15:35, 13 June 2022 (UTC)


 * Why is it necessary to include the year? Kablammo (talk) 17:37, 13 June 2022 (UTC)
 * It was in the previous title, so I just decided to include.  interstate five   18:11, 13 June 2022 (UTC)
 * The year was in the proposal, removed on 15 June, if you wonder what this refers to. All comments below until the date refer to 1881 World tour of King Kalākaua. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 06:34, 15 June 2022 (UTC)


 * Oppose - most people searching for information on royalty begin with a name. How would they know the year to search for? Most people would search by the name Kalakaua.  And this naming is consistent with other articles on Hawaiian royalty. The name comes first.  — Maile  (talk) 19:34, 13 June 2022 (UTC)
 * Still oppose with the suggested naming just now changed to "World tour of King Kalākaua". People looking for information on Kalākaua search with his name. How many variations of renaming are we going to try here? I don't see why this has to be renamed at all. Are we going to go though a round of various attempts at one proposed name or another, just in case one clicks enough for an approval by the majority? — Maile  (talk) 23:00, 14 June 2022 (UTC)


 * Oppose - While I agree that the article name should be more formal, I would support something more akin to "King Kalākaua's 1881 world tour". Calling the article Kalakaua's world tour is the same as saying Elizabeth's world tour, which doesn't sound right. Ha ii ya  (talk) (contribs) 20:02, 13 June 2022 (UTC)
 * Not exactly the same as Ellizabeth. There are a world full of women named Elizabeth.  But only one Kalakaua in Hawaiian history. — Maile  (talk) 23:05, 14 June 2022 (UTC)


 * Oppose - I can't see how the new title is any better. KAVEBEAR (talk) 20:49, 13 June 2022 (UTC)


 * Oppose per Maile66, formal or not, I like the most likely search item in front. - A change would make all previous links awkward, and in any case don't move during the next 3 days while the link will still be on the Main page. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 21:10, 13 June 2022 (UTC)
 * Actually, as I recall, we started out with not having the date at all. But Kalakaua was such an adventurous traveling soul, that we were better off using the dates, at least for any scholars doing research on him. Something like three trips hither and yon across the US for one purpose or another. He was a people lover, stopped along his trips to see the tourist sites and to attend dances.  He signed autographs and gave out photographs. And that's without even counting his final trip up and about California, the trip where he died. There's a source in Hawaii - and I think we might have used it - calling him "The Royal Tourist". He was, indeed, a tourist at heart.— Maile  (talk) 22:23, 13 June 2022 (UTC)


 * Oppose per the above.  Lugnuts  Fire Walk with Me 07:26, 14 June 2022 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
 * Oppose in part. Beginning any title with a digit makes it look like a printout, but the proposal without the year looks like an improvement from this angle. --Piledhigheranddeeper (talk) 17:14, 14 June 2022 (UTC)
 * I have removed the year from the proposal.  interstate five   22:50, 14 June 2022 (UTC)
 * I happen to see that we now speak about a different thing, but what about the others. I think it's no good process to change a subject mid-discussion. I still oppose the new suggestion, for the same reason as mentioned above. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 06:32, 15 June 2022 (UTC)

Tone
"Britain's Queen Victoria and the splendor of her royal life impressed him more than any other monarchy; having been greatly affected by the ornate trappings of European sovereigns, he would soon have Hawaii's monarchy mirror that grandeur." How exactly is this sentence not puffery? This sentence and others in the article aren't neutral and are written more like a novel that doesn't match an encyclopedic tone. Ha ii ya (talk) (contribs) 19:57, 13 June 2022 (UTC)

Map
The map of the tour route shows New York as the only stop on the U.S. East Coast. The text describes visits to Washington, D.C., Virginia, and Kentucky, and possibly other places. --Piledhigheranddeeper (talk) 17:23, 14 June 2022 (UTC)
 * I think a simplify map was created when it was requested at the Graphics Lab/Map workshop. I would love a more complex map but who is volunteering to create it? KAVEBEAR (talk) 18:10, 14 June 2022 (UTC)

Vienna
There is some information to add to the Vienna section: about visiting dancing venues (in Prater):, pp. 43–44 and more negative view is given in “Der” alte Kaiser: wie nur einer ihn sah ; der wahrheitsgetreue Bericht des Leibkammerdieners Kaiser Franz Josephs I., Chapeter "Exotic visits" (not available in online). According to the Czech edition, Kalakaua was kissing random dancers and ended up drunk. — Draceane talk contributions 13:16, 22 May 2024 (UTC)


 * I'm shocked, I tell you, shocked!! A global head of state drank too much and kissed women?  Throughout the research on his travels, this one and others, he loved eating, dancing, twirling women around the dance floor. His wife Kapiʻolani did not travel with him. But one theme repeatedly was that he loved to dance, and took every opportunity to do so. — Maile  (talk) 01:20, 23 May 2024 (UTC)