Talk:Karachi Grammar School

Who removed Kofi Annan?
I know Kofi Annan wasn't really ever a student of KGS (and almost every other reader did too), but i was wondering who would be so heartless as to finally remove his name of the Alumni list, he had surely survived 100 or so edits, and i'm guessing each editor saw him as a quaint artefeact that had survived numerous other editors and was not meant to be deleted. Who violated Koffi Anan?... Who broke the tradition? I'm putting his name back in the alumni to see how long he lasts this time. Since my hypothesis is that >95% of edits are done by fellow Grammarians, i appeal to you all (and to your sense of humour) to keep his name on the list. The end. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 129.206.197.60 (talk) 17:36, 7 April 2009 (UTC)

Infobox
Infobox added Grasping@false.hope 19:46, 20 August 2007 (UTC)

Notable alumni
I have removed the section on notable alumni because none of them appear to be notable. Doing a quick google search, none of the entries returned results that would validate their addition to the article. I would argue that having exceptional skills at basketball and having outstanding athletic abilities, for example do not qualify for notablility. - Akamad 23:54, 10 November 2006 (UTC)

I have removed another section on notable alumni which is largely false and/or does not appear to be name specific.

"Notable Alumni of the school include Thomas W. Simons, Jr. (Former US Ambassador, Professor at Brown, Cornell and Harvard); Benazir Bhutto ( former Prime Minister of Pakistan); Shahzada Mustafa Ahmad Saddozai (Founded the Crocodile Attention Syndrome), Hamza Usman Sadiq (Founder of Comic Collectors Pakistan; CCP), Ahsan Amjad (Best Debater), Kamila Shamsie (author), Jenna Jameson (Adult industry mogul), Jesus Christ (religious fanatic); Waheed Murad (silver screen idol); Raisa Mobin; Sarah Shazad (CEO of the Rabea Tariq make-a-wish foundation) Chishty Mujahid (Cricket Commentator); Pervez Hoodbhoy (Educator andPolitical commentator; Rabea Tariq (Originator of the J.Butterfly within the education system); Raja Khan Taimur (Created the vaccine for the Dengue virus under the ICFT) and innumerable luminaries in the fields of politics (ministers, advisors, members of parliament), business (CEOs, Entrepreneurs, executives), academia (professors, Deans, Chancellors, teachers), Arts (performers, artists), and any other profession imaginable."

In addition, I have also removed the following statement, which does not appear to be from an authentic source.

"The school's reputation and its agenda of indoctrinating its alumni with a craving for success and prominence is evident within the socio-economic landscape of Pakistan. The cultural and social elite of Pakistan are dominated by the 'old money' (purana paisa) Grammarians" 192.193.245.14 11:21, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

Registering at KGS websites
I am an alumni that has just returned from the U.S after 26 years. I have been trying to access both the alummni website and the KGS official website but to no avail. They are either down or non-existent. Could some one please guide me as to how to go about registering myself and accessing upcoming events I may attend. Thank-you very much. Mansoor Ahmed Khan HSC., Class of 1981

Fair use rationale for Image:Kgslogo.jpg
Image:Kgslogo.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

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BetacommandBot 06:23, 7 November 2007 (UTC)

Article's Name
Shouldn't the name of the article be Karachi Grammar School instead of KGrammerSchool. (Anushe.ahmed (talk) 00:48, 4 November 2009 (UTC))
 * Yes indeed I think it should be, nobody seems to have moved it back as only an administrator could as it required deletion of a page in the way. Since I am an admin, I have done it for you. Camaron · Christopher · talk 19:39, 9 November 2009 (UTC)

sounds society
there are pretty domestically famous musicians which the sounds society has produced, like usmaan siddique (2007), usman riaz (2009) and talha ali too.. Y arent their names there? Whats up? I saw their names a while back! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 115.186.142.7 (talk) 07:47, 11 December 2009 (UTC)

youre right there... although im not sure about talha ali... ill see what I can do —Preceding unsigned comment added by 115.186.67.134 (talk) 19:07, 23 December 2009 (UTC)

Importance rating
Per discussion at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Schools this article's importance rating is being changed from Top to High-importance. This may be reviewed at a later date if more claims that have been made are sourced. Camaron · Christopher · talk 22:11, 14 December 2009 (UTC)

"The Life and Times of Karachi Grammar School"
"The Life and Times of Karachi Grammar School" published in 2010. Printed by Elite Publishers and Designed by Bond Advertising. This book is printed by KGS itself and has detailed references to the History and Development of KGS. I request any individual who edits this page in the future to kindly look into this book by borrowing or purchasing it. This book can be used as a great resource to contribute towards articles and topics relating to the school's history and development over the last century. If any changes are made or any additional material is submitted using this book as a source, please clearly state the reference page number from the book and the name of the article from which the article has been taken.

Thanks, Umervakil 10:00, 22 August 2010 (UTC)

School song
I have restored the deleted copy. Lack of references is no reason for deleting sections of an article. I have however removed the school song. This is potentially a copyright violation. If the song is out of copyright it can go in Wikisource. See WikiProject Schools/Article guidelines. Dahliarose (talk) 01:01, 18 February 2012 (UTC)

Restorations of uncited material, in violation of wp:CHALLENGED

 * Please of course feel free to restore material that was uncited and violated wp:v and was challenged by deletion or otherwise, but only if you supply a proper inline citation. Please read wp:CHALLENGED, which clarifies this.--Epeefleche (talk) 01:03, 18 February 2012 (UTC)
 * I see that you are edit-warring. Again inserting un-cited material, that has been challenged, while failing to comply with wp:v and specifically with wp:CHALLENGED.  I would ask that you self-revert.


 * Your repeated re-insertion of uncited material, deleted by 2 editors, in violation of wp:CHALLENGED is not appropriate. That was pointed out to you not only above. But also in the edit summary accompanying the delete that preceded your most recent re-insertion of the same material.  Please take this as a polite warning.  Thank you.--Epeefleche (talk) 01:06, 18 February 2012 (UTC)


 * I am only trying to be reasonable. Could you please indicate which sections you have particular concerns about with the appropriate uncited tags and indicate here why you have such a problem with these sections as I can no longer see the relevant editing history? From what I could see the material removed was uncontroversial material about extra-curricular activities and houses and not the sort of controversial material that is usually challenged. Even Good articles are only required to provide "in-line citations from reliable sources for direct quotations, statistics, published opinion, counter-intuitive or controversial statements that are challenged or likely to be challenged". Deleting content is not going to encourage editors to expand the article and provide sources. Dahliarose (talk) 01:17, 18 February 2012 (UTC)
 * I should also point out that WP:V says "You may remove any material lacking a reliable source that directly supports it (although an alternate procedure would be to add a citation needed tag). Whether and how quickly this should happen depends on the material and the overall state of the article. Editors might object if you remove material without giving them time to provide references. It has always been good practice to try to find and cite supporting sources yourself." It is now no longer possible to even tell from the edit history which parts were of particular concern. It would be more reasonable and helpful to restore the content and include the relevant tags to allow time for concerns to be addressed. Dahliarose (talk) 01:37, 18 February 2012 (UTC)


 * Thanks. It may perhaps be more reasonable to comply with our core policy of wp:v.  And specifically with wp:CHALLENGED.  Which states:


 * "'any material challenged ... must be attributed to a reliable published source using an inline citation. The citation should fully identify the source, and the location within the source (specifying page, section, or such divisions as may be appropriate) where the material is to be found.... The burden of evidence lies with the editor who adds or restores material.'"


 * This article was already tagged last month. A courtesy, which is nice, but is not a pre-requisite for the removal of material that is uncited, and which fails to meet our core policy of verifiability.  With a note that says:


 * "'This article needs additional citations for verification. Please help improve this article by adding citations to reliable sources. Unsourced material may be challenged and removed.'"


 * While that alternate procedure is not required, it was engaged in last month. A tag was in fact added indicating the need for refs.  It is eminently self-evident which sentences have zero refs here.  The sentences that were deleted, however, remained uncited even in the wake of last month's collegial and non-required tagging of the article for its lack of refs, and warning that non-referenced text was subject to excision.


 * The material that you removed was all uncited material. It is your obligation, if you wish to restore it, to provide the indicated inline citations.


 * It does not matter that you personally believe that the un-cited, challenged language you re-inserted ... to the effect (for instance) that the school is "highly selective" ... is in your view "useful content" (as you termed it, in your edit summary).  It is unverified.  It fails our core policy of verifiability.  The article was tagged for its need for RS sources .  A starting point if you wish to address that, in response to your query, is to focus on those sentences that lack refs.  WP is not a repository for unreferenced, unverified, possibly incorrect and hoax information about whether this school is in fact "highly selective", or the activities and houses and family ties information that was removed from the article.  When challenged, the burden is on any editor who wishes to restore it to provide inline RS citations.  The applicable guideline was pointed out to you, more than once, and yet you have edit-warred with 2 editors.  And still not self-reverted.  I would again ask you to self-revert, per the above. Thanks.--Epeefleche (talk) 01:51, 18 February 2012 (UTC)


 * You added a refimprove tag to this article at the beginning of January which is quite in order. It is however entirely unreasonable to come back a month later and remove whole sections of completely uncontroversial material simply because no one has added any references. Wikipedia is a work in progress. We want to encourage editors to add further content to articles, and particularly articles covering content from countries which are poorly represented in the encyclopaedia. I have copied and pasted the deleted material below so that other editors at WP:WPSCHOOLS can comment. The sentence which tells us that the school is highly selective is a statement of fact. It is a grammar school. Grammar schools are by their very nature selective, just as comprehensive schools are non-selective. You have, however, deleted the albeit unreferenced section which explains the admissions process and how the pupils are selected. This material needs referencing not deleting. Dahliarose (talk) 12:57, 18 February 2012 (UTC)
 * Unreasonable? That's untrue.  Removal of such information at any time would not be "unreasonable".  This is clear in wp:v.  As it is uncited, and violates our core policy of wp:v.  There is a balancing act here -- leaving the tag for any amount of time allots editors time to address the issue as the information remains, but may leave incorrect, unverified information.


 * You think that the information -- completely uncited -- that the school is "highly selective" is good information for wp to reflect, as though it is true. You even say directly above "The sentence which tells us that the school is highly selective is a statement of fact."  That's precisely the problem -- it is, but you have zero RS support for that statement.  How do we know the level of its selectiveness?  What does "highly selective" even mean -- how is it "higher" that the selectiveness of other similar schools?  Why are you pushing that wp should state, in wp's voice, a puffery statement that is not supported by any reference whatsoever?  How is blatantly violating our verifiability policy a good thing for you to do, to puff up this school as "highly selective?  How is your violating wp:v, and edit warring with 2 editors to do it -- even after warnings -- reasonable behavior, that is good for the Project?


 * Another editor and I disagree -- if fails to meet wp:v. For weeks this malady was flagged for uncited information across the article.  As an uber-reasonable (for your POV) measure, a tag was emblazoned, so editors like you could address it.  You didn't.  Nobody did.  It could have been deleted in early January -- without at all being unreasonable, but rather being quite reasonable but within the rules.  But more time was allotted.  And yet you now assert -- incorrectly -- that the process was unreasonable?  That's simply not true.  Please re-read wp:CHALLENGED, and please stop violating it by restoring un-cited information without a proper citation.  You were warned on this point more than once, and continued doing so.  That is not reasonable behavior, and please understand this as a civil warning if I have not been clear enough above.  That is non-collaborative behavior on your part, that violates a core wikipedia guideline.


 * The fact that this school is highly selective is key to understanding the nature of the school, its high academic performance and the high-calibre of its alumni. It is not POV, it is simply a statement of fact which is explained in the now deleted section on Admissions. We do not to state every obvious fact. If you wish to understand the selective education system perhaps you might like to read the article on Grammar school. Dahliarose (talk) 15:12, 18 February 2012 (UTC)


 * After edit-warring with 2 editors here (me being one of them), and us trying to address it in edit summaries and on this talk page and with a civil, non-template, warning above, you appeared at a discussion on another editor's misbehavior and left a posting there that focused not on his misbehavior but raised this. See here.  I indicated there that the 2 were not connected.  But if you would prefer that we discuss the above wp:CHALLENGED issues at a noticeboard, I am not against that.  I simply thought it might be more collegial if we were to try to address the warning issues here if we could, and for me not to escalate the warning issue if talk page conversation might suffice.--Epeefleche (talk) 14:53, 18 February 2012 (UTC)
 * I've already asked for other editors to comment on the specifics of this article at WP:Schools. I see no need to comment further. Dahliarose (talk) 15:12, 18 February 2012 (UTC)
 * The "we at WP:SCHOOLS" project you've alluded to? OK.  Let me just re-iterate.  The 2 editors with whom you edit warred on this page sought to reach you, in a collegial manner.  First with edit summaries.  Then with talk page discussion.  Keeping warnings to a non-template, civil, structure even in the face of repeated reversions by you that violated wp:CHALLENGED.  Your assertions that wp:v should be violated just because you think it is a good thing to say that this school is "highly selective" -- even when you supply zero ref support for that, and the malady of unsourcing has been flagged to you for weeks, suggests that perhaps you have not embraced wp:v.  Your repeated reversions of 2 editors, in violation of wp:CHALLENGED, suggests that perhaps you are not being as collegial and reasonable as you indicate.  We don't, as you also imply here and elsewhere, violate core guidelines and principles (edit warring, hounding, incivility ... I refer not to you only, but to behavior in others that you support) because we think that might deter an editor with whom we have substantive disputes.  We also don't, or shouldn't, cast aspersions as to their ability to understand or to read, as reflected at AfD behavior, when their !voting record is in-consensus 300+% more than ours.  I understand that we have had substantive disputes these past 5 weeks at three articles -- Articles for deletion/St. Bede's Prep School, Articles for deletion/Li Sing Primary School, and Articles for deletion/St Peter's Middle School, Old Windsor.  That's fine -- we can disagree.  But please don't let that lead to the afore-mentioned behavior, which is not collegial.  Many thanks.--Epeefleche (talk) 15:26, 18 February 2012 (UTC)

Epeefleche should be applauded for deleting the unsourced content in this article. I support the action. --Bob Re-born (talk) 21:43, 18 February 2012 (UTC)

I've talked to Dahliarose, and as she has her hands full at the moment, so I have stepped in, given the school's website and Google a run through, and found sources for some of the sections removed. I have now added this content to the article with sourcing; it took me about forty minutes, and the article has been improved as a result. That time used was probably a lot less than that put in to this discussion, which has achieved nothing. Anyone is free to make further additions, as there is lots of information out there and the article clearly needs further attention. To my surprise, I couldn't find very much out about the school houses though. CT Cooper · &#32;talk 22:05, 18 February 2012 (UTC)

Admissions
Karachi Grammar School has a competitive admissions process which allows children to be admitted on Nursery, 3rd, 7th, 10th and 12th Classes. Students are tested by a customized exam which tests their ability to participate in academic activities. Students attempting to enter for their 'A' and 'AS' studies are required to secure exceptional results in their GCE Ordinary Level Examinations.

Clubs and societies
The school has a variety of extracurricular societies that the students can join. These societies include the Helpers Society, Sounds Society, Conservation Society, World Affairs Society, Arts Society, Philosophy Society, Economics Society, Accounts Society, Chemistry Society, Cybernetics Society, Drama Society etc. Two of the most well-known of their societies are the social service societies known as the 'Helpers Society' and the 'Sounds Society'. The Helpers Society holds fundraisers such as concerts and bake sales in order to raise money for charity and create awareness. The Sounds Society holds annual concerts in the college section of the school, which involve the participation of all the year groups studying in the College Section.

Sports and athletics
Sports played in KGS include hockey, cricket, football, volleyball, rowing, baseball and swimming. Additional games offered are gymnastics, high jump, long jump, diskette throw and shot put. The school annually hosts its sports day which involves students participating in activities such as a organized march past, competitive running and gymnastics. An annual Sports Day dedicated to athletics is hosted every first term of the year. Karachi Grammar School has many traditions associated with the hosting of Sports Day such as House Rallies and March Pasts. A junior and senior champion is selected based on his/her performance. Competitions are divided amongst Inter-House, Inter-School and External events.

Publications
The school annually publishes the Grammarian Yearbook and the Pulse Magazine. The school's societies also occasionally publish their own magazines, recent examples being the '-ISM' magazine published by the World Affairs Society and the Young Leaders Newsletter published by the Young Leaders Society. A coffee table book called the Life and Times of KGS is available at Karachi Grammar School's website.

The house colors are red, blue, green, and light cornflower blue. Students are placed into houses based on their family lineage and the houses which their parents and siblings were placed in. Students that do not have any Grammarians in their family are randomly placed into one of the four houses.

Semi-protected edit request on 22 April 2014
The advertising notice should be removed and the page should be unlocked. This page has never been that bad.

220.158.112.178 (talk) 10:12, 22 April 2014 (UTC)
 * Padlock-dash2.svg Not done: requests for decreases to the page protection level should be directed to the protecting admin or to Requests for page protection if the protecting admin is not active or has declined the request. Cannolis (talk) 10:55, 22 April 2014 (UTC)

School houses
I can't help but feel that the section "School Houses" has somewhat fallen prey to a mischievous school prank of sorts. Would someone more knowledgeable than I am please do us the favour or sorting it out? Most obliged for any help in this matter. Best regards! --Avichai~dewiki (talk) 16:50, 3 March 2017 (UTC)

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