Talk:Kashmiri Pandits/Archive 2

Semi-protected edit request on 11 May 2014
the Last statement regarding the "origin of the Persian Festival of Nowruz is completely false, I am an east Asian Professor at the University of Arizona.

Peacefrog1 (talk) 05:05, 11 May 2014 (UTC)
 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. Cannolis (talk) 13:15, 11 May 2014 (UTC)

New section on Sub divisions
I have created a new section on sub divisions. Looking for more material & links that can help me expand it. Pls post them on my talk page. -Ambar (talk) 18:33, 21 April 2015 (UTC)

Hindus (more specifically Brahmins) of Kashmir are known as Pandits
Zulji was not a Mongol but resembled modern people of Turkmenistan that is Turkish-Mongol mixed. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.174.6.179 (talk) 16:35, 5 April 2015 (UTC)

' Kashmir technically is the least touched region of Central Asia, thus has retained much of her ancient Aryan ethnicity and culture. The Kashmiri Brahmins surely belong to the pure Aryan Race. In fact most Kashmiris today have the original Aryan roots no denying of this.''Bold text  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.88.88.203 (talk) 20:43, 27 April 2015 (UTC)

TWO FACTS: Since ancient times Kashmirb has been referred to as the crown of Aryavarta. Zulji was surely not a Mongol. Read the Rajataringini written by two Brahmins Jonraja and Srivara. I am sorry for the political gains of foreigners this can not be changed.''' — Preceding unsigned comment added by 108.176.3.186 (talk) 22:53, 25 November 2012 (UTC) ''' These Brahmins of Kashmir are genuine Rigvedic Aryans and amongst the first worshipers of their beloved Agun (fire) and their language, looks, culture are pure Aryan. Their main festival is Navreh (New Year).'''  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 108.176.3.186 (talk) 22:08, 6 January 2013 (UTC)

In support of the argument that Brahmins of Kashmir (which is the predominant population of Hindus in the Kashmir valley), kindly refer the following book and link here, which is one of many. Am referring to page 60 in the book "Greenwood encyclopedia ...". -Ambar (talk) 17:56, 4 August 2012 (UTC)

'''Clearly some Semite is trying to invent a new history of Kashmiri Brahmins and Pandit. The term Pandit means a learned Brahmin originally. All Pandits in Kashmir have Brahmin roots. You can not create a confusion in the history of these first Aryans and known worshippers of Agni.+''' — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.146.246.15 (talk) 03:46, 10 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Please post your comments at the end of the talk page. In case you have some books or documents that have written reference to the Kashmiri Pandits as fire worshippers (Agni worshippers), please provide the link or information to the book. -Ambar (talk) 07:59, 11 August 2012 (UTC)


 * Please refer to the following links to books and articles Kashmir: Roots of conflict and another one by M.K. Kaw here (Page 183, others) that explains the background of Kashmiri Pandits and also this book that mentions the term Kashmiri Pandit & Kashmiri Hindus are interchangeable (refer page 119 - 123).
 * Further proof that the Hindus of Kashmir are known as Pandits. Chitralekha Zutshi, in her book Laungauges of Belonging Pg.11 explicitly states so. -Ambar (talk) 14:56, 17 August 2012 (UTC)

The main picture under this topic.
If you search Kashmiri Pandits in google images, you will see fair skinned people as kashmiris are generally fair skinned. But the main image used shows a group of dark people. I get that it is certified and all but it just does not represent the larger present communtiy. Moreover it boils my blood as this wikipedia image is used all over the internet and it's just not us. — Preceding unsigned comment added by AakashPandita97 (talk • contribs) 15:26, 22 May 2015 (UTC)
 * , you can click nice photos of pandits and can upload it to Wikimedia commons. I can guide you regarding upload. But photo should be of high quality and descent without any photoshop or special effect. Regarding current image, it is image around 150 years old, in those days only "black n white" camera was available. No HD color camera. So image may look dark to you. And its not God's rule that all Kashmiri pandits are white/fair, there are variations in it. -- Human 3015  Say Hey!! • 04:21, 26 May 2015 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 4 May 2016
BONIPAN (talk) 08:59, 4 May 2016 (UTC) This makes reference to the part of the article with respect to the migration of Kashmiri Pandits in so far as the exclusive migration of males only. In this respect it is clarified that firstly the pandits were not forced to migrate and secondly it is not correct that the males exclusively were asked to migrate. The migration of the kashmiri pandits as it transpires from the letters written to the newspaper editors of the dailies published from the kashmir valley clearly shows that it was a strategic political move on part of the then Governor of the state to let loose the forces operating in the valley against the left out Muslim Population. More importantly, you have not cited reliable sources to back up your request, without which no information should be added to, or changed in, any article. - Arjayay (talk) 10:16, 4 May 2016 (UTC)
 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done: as you have not requested a specific change in the form "Please replace XXX with YYY" or "Please add ZZZ between PPP and QQQ".

Semi-protected edit request on 31 May 2016
Migration in early 1900s

Many Kashmiri Hindus migrated from the valley when plague and cholera took many lives in early years of 1900s. Close to 250 people died from plague alone (source:- http://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/14768300), which is a big number considering the sparse population in the valley at that time. The families mostly migrated in Northern region of the country close to Delhi NCR, the climate of which was suitable for Kashmiris. Kashmiri Hindus known for their industriousness and intellectual caliber got absorbed in the local culture.

116.202.38.86 (talk) 14:09, 31 May 2016 (UTC)
 * Red question icon with gradient background.svg Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format. Sir Joseph (talk) 14:47, 31 May 2016 (UTC)

Total population
The infobox gives the population as 800,000. However the Dawn source used for it clearly says it is the number of Kashmiri Pandits who fled in 1990s, and naturally there population would have grown by now. Not to mention Kashmiri Pandits have fled long before the exodus as well. The information isn't what it is said in source, it should be removed and replaced with a source that actually gives a population figure and the population figure in it. Even if a source cannot be found, it should still be removed as it is not per the text in source anyway. 45.122.146.105 (talk) 10:10, 3 November 2016 (UTC)

Total population of Kashmiri Pandits
Some users have added their population as 160,000-170,000 using Al-Jazeera article Kashmir: The Pandit question. The article doesn't mention the current total population of Pandits.

The figure of 160,000-170,000 is actually only of Kashmir Pandits living in Kashmir Valley before 1990, the source even states that clearly: "And yet there are no precise numbers regarding the migration/exodus of Pandits. Figures from within and figures from the outside are so different. Some say 700,000 left, others say 100,000 left. Why is there such ambiguity over the numbers?" This is the question cleay highlighted and is stating its about those who migrated after 1990s. The answer listed is: "One of the chief causes of the ambiguity is because the numbers of Pandits in the valley in 1989 can only be adduced from the census of 1941, the last time the Pandits were counted and listed as distinct from the category of Kashmiri Hindus and that census listed a little fewer than 79,000 Pandits in the valley. It's from this baseline that demographers have sought to work out the number of Kashmir Pandits in the valley in 1990. Using the rough measure of the average decennial growth rate in the state as a whole, available through the censuses up to 1941 and then the 2001 census, the number of Kashmiri Pandits living in the valley before 1990 that they arrive at is about 160,000 to 170,000."

It is clear that this is about those who migrated from Kashmir Valley after 1990s. However it is known that they have migrated before 1990s as well. This is from author Zutsi's "Language of belongings" regarding Pandit migration in late 40s and early 50s: "Since a majority of the landlords were Hindu, the (land) reforms (of 1950) led to a mass exodus of Hindus from the state. ... The unsettled nature of Kashmir's accession to India, coupled with the threat of economic and social decline in the face of the land reforms, led to increasing insecurity among the Hindus in Jammu, and among Kashmiri Pandits, 20 per cent of whom had emigrated from the Valley by 1950.""

Therefore considering merely the number of Kashmir Pandits migrating out of Kashmir in 1990 cannot give us the correct current population of the group. MonsterHunter32 (talk) 20:03, 22 February 2017 (UTC)


 * Ok, the figure doesn't account for the Kashmiri Pandits that migrated out of the Valley before 1990. How does deleting the figure help solve that problem? -- Kautilya3 (talk) 20:28, 22 February 2017 (UTC)


 * Doesn't solve, but isn't it better not to have information than keep incorrect information? Regardless, it has been corrected to say it was the estimated number of Kashmir Pandits in Kashmir valley before their exodus in Kashmir. So I am ok with it now. MonsterHunter32 (talk) 06:35, 24 February 2017 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 9 April 2017
117.242.189.3 (talk) 00:07, 9 April 2017 (UTC)

Please edit....Source Unknown or Void
 * Pictogram voting question.svg Question: Do you want the  tag to be inserted at the end of the caption of this image?  DRAGON BOOSTER   ★  01:28, 9 April 2017 (UTC)
 * Red question icon with gradient background.svg Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format. --  Dane talk  20:35, 9 April 2017 (UTC)

External links modified
Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified 2 external links on Kashmiri Pandit. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20130515012207/http://www.leg.state.or.us/09reg/measpdf/sjr1.dir/sjr0023.intro.pdf to http://www.leg.state.or.us/09reg/measpdf/sjr1.dir/sjr0023.intro.pdf
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20131005111219/http://www.hindustantimes.com/News-Feed/NM21/Pandits-to-float-political-party/Article1-197062.aspx to http://www.hindustantimes.com/News-Feed/NM21/Pandits-to-float-political-party/Article1-197062.aspx

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot  (Report bug) 22:19, 2 May 2017 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 21 March 2018

 * Yes check.svg Done —   IVORK  Discuss 00:53, 21 March 2018 (UTC)

Early history
Kashmiri Pandits have History of over 5000 years.

Change "have History of over 5000 years." to "have a history spanning over five thousand years. 162.248.67.10 (talk) 00:33, 21 March 2018 (UTC)

Images
Why are all the pictures of Kashmiri Pandits on wikipedia containing image that does not even represent how 95% Pandits look? Most KPs are very fair skinned and many have brunet hair and coloured eyes. So why are you only using some 100 years old images of some darker skinned pandits wearing turbans when only 3-5% pandits look like that? -- — Preceding unsigned comment added by S.l_kaul (talk • contribs)

The photography of that period did not reflect the color contrast too well. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.107.240.106 (talk) 23:57, 2 June 2018 (UTC)

You are correct. Besides now due to techniques photgraphs can be manipulated. The ethnicity, color, and culture of Kashmiris has much in common with Hunza, Nagar, Chitral, Pamirs, Vakhan, Tajikestan, etc.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 108.182.31.129 (talk) 15:32, 29 July 2018 (UTC)

are you going to do something about it or not?

Arbitrary heading
Castes of Kashmiri Brahmins. The Bure are not pure Kashmiri Brahmins but children of Kashmiri Brahmins and Khatri merchants. Thus a mixed caste. They more often do business. Dhar (or Dar) are not of Kshatriya origins but of Brahmin origin. A significant amount of small business in the Valley was controlled by these (Bure) people.

Kalhana's Rajataringini informs us all about the Kashmiris and their history. Rajataragini refers to Kashmir as the crown of Aryavarta and regions of today's Central Asia were parts of Aryavarta according to Rajataringini. Also Pt. Anand Koul a brilliant person has done a great job. Kashmir is far from Iran and is technically Central Asia. The Kashmiris defeated the Turks several times and this was celeberated in the Valley according to Al-Biruni. Note to obtain authentic information unto the 11th Century Kalhana's Rajataringini is the primary and credible source. Apart from other information the Soma drinking Kashmiris and Aryavarta is clearly described in this text.


 * Please can you provide a reliable source for this. - Sitush (talk) 14:47, 19 July 2017 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 23 December 2019
In the introductory paragraph where this article states "Kashmiri Pandits originally lived in the Kashmir Valley before Muslim influence entered the region after which large numbers converted to Islam" is wrong. Kashmiri pandits didn't converted to Islam by will, but were either killed or forcefully converted to Islam by Mughal Emperor Aurangzeb. 2001:8003:4E8D:BB00:38CC:582F:D7AE:45DC (talk) 04:17, 23 December 2019 (UTC)


 * ❌. It's not clear what changes you want to make. –Deacon Vorbis (carbon &bull; videos) 05:31, 23 December 2019 (UTC)

Religious section
There has been unsourced edit sentence which claims "Sun worship was originally brought into Kashmir by Lalitaditya from current day Iran." This is not true and should be removed, important source related to that topic can be found in Lalitaditya & Martand Sun Temple pages. 117.198.114.228 (talk) 22:50, 6 April 2018 (UTC)
 * Ok, so, when was it brought to Kashmir? -- Kautilya3 (talk) 22:57, 6 April 2018 (UTC)
 * Hello, Lalitaditya (8th century A.D) bringing sun worship from Iran is inaccurate and unfounded, Martand Sun Temple (8th century A.D) is dedicated to (Surya Vedic-Puranic diety) and not to Mitra-Nahundi (Persian-Elamite solar diety). Would you say Konark Sun Temple (in Orissia built in similar style) also dedicated to Surya (Hindu solar diety) was brought by Narasimhadeva I from Iran? I understand you mean to say some proto-Iranain connection, but this is 8th century A.D and Surya by this time was blend of vedic-puranic-other local sources, not something from Iran. 117.198.121.12 (talk) 13:58, 7 April 2018 (UTC)
 * Sun worship being bought from Iran is unsourced and should be removed till a valid source is cited. Please reconsider for removal, or provide a suitable source of citation. -Ambar (talk) 15:23, 7 April 2018 (UTC)
 * Yes, agreed. Please remove it, Ambar. It's already unsourced. 117.198.117.207 (talk) 16:07, 9 April 2018 (UTC)

Wrongly written history and other information. You can't play with our emotions and you can deny the fact what happened to kashmiri pandits in the 90's. Ayushpandita02 (talk) 02:49, 11 March 2020 (UTC)

The article is correct as per the historical records. This is very good decision by Wikipedia that a anti vandalisation protection has been implemented on this article. There are hate mongering people who have brainwashed and misinformation, and they want to spread that brainwashed misinformation of hate among others. TheChunky (talk) 15:56, 15 March 2020 (UTC)

Add the protection layer from vandalism
This article is based on main cause of Kashmir Conflict. Kindly lock the article from editing and vandalism. Because there are two sided people who believe in history and some who vandalise history and make their own philosophies for making hate among the masses.

Lock the article from vandalism. TheChunky (talk) 02:46, 20 March 2020 (UTC)


 * Please justify all the content you added here. What source is this based on? -- Kautilya3 (talk) 05:13, 20 March 2020 (UTC)

Copyright problem removed
Prior content in this article duplicated one or more previously published sources. Copied or closely paraphrased material has been rewritten or removed and must not be restored, unless it is duly released under a compatible license. (For more information, please see "using copyrighted works from others" if you are not the copyright holder of this material, or "donating copyrighted materials" if you are.)

For legal reasons, we cannot accept copyrighted text or images borrowed from other web sites or published material; such additions will be deleted. Contributors may use copyrighted publications as a source of information, and, if allowed under fair use, may copy sentences and phrases, provided they are included in quotation marks and referenced properly. The material may also be rewritten, providing it does not infringe on the copyright of the original or plagiarize from that source. Therefore, such paraphrased portions must provide their source. Please see our guideline on non-free text for how to properly implement limited quotations of copyrighted text. Wikipedia takes copyright violations very seriously, and persistent violators will be blocked from editing. While we appreciate contributions, we must require all contributors to understand and comply with these policies. Thank you. IamNotU (talk) 02:35, 21 March 2020 (UTC)

Copyright problems, plagiarism, and close paraphrases were introduced in a series of edits: Special:Diff/504935396/507859125 in 2012, by. I have only checked the edits from those three days, August 15-17. There are many other edits from the same user (see ) so it's likely that there are still other problems.

In removing the text, I removed the following references, from which the text in each case was copied:

Before using any of these references, editors should ensure that they meed Wikipedia's criteria for reliable sources; a quick look suggests that some of them do not. --IamNotU (talk) 02:41, 21 March 2020 (UTC)

I have now checked all edits by this user to this article, and have removed some more problems from edits Special:Diff/834566810/835255615, Special:Diff/714372825/715707446, Special:Diff/657258049/657694598, Special:Diff/529761785/530280718. They included these references, from which the text was copypasted or closely paraphrased:

Some other edits, going back to March 2012, were already reverted or deleted, but are still in the page history. I did not check them closely for copyright and plagiarism problems. --IamNotU (talk) 15:27, 21 March 2020 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 19 February 2021
Many Kashmiri Pandits were killed by Islamic extremists. There were no muslim influence there was a attack by Islamic extremists. 2409:4041:2E01:63DB:4B32:7A3A:D981:7C5 (talk) 17:51, 19 February 2021 (UTC)
 * Red question icon with gradient background.svg Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. &#8209;&#8209; El Hef  ( Meep? ) 18:08, 19 February 2021 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 22 September 2021
You have removed all instances of Kashmiri Pandit persecution. How could you sleep at night my dear friend. Fie for shame Fie!! 2405:201:F:9033:2C07:CEF1:884F:808E (talk) 17:23, 22 September 2021 (UTC)
 * Red question icon with gradient background.svg Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 17:30, 22 September 2021 (UTC)

Nehru
Surprised not to see mention of the first prime minister of India Jawaharlal Nehru, who was enough of a Kashmiri Pandit to be nicknamed "Pandit Nehru" and therefore having a personal stake in what happened in Kashmir on partition, and no mention of the significant earlier Pandit communities outside Kashmir (illustrated by his parents and wife) 14:27, 16 March 2022 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A00:23C6:148A:9B01:12D:C831:9DD1:28A0 (talk)