Talk:Kenya Airways Flight 507

Untitled
This article seems to have been started even before reports came out confirming the plane crash. 124.176.87.176 09:22, 5 May 2007 (UTC)
 * BBC News in UK is now showing "Cameroon Plane Crash" 194.75.37.250 09:42, 5 May 2007 (UTC)
 * I started Adam Air Flight 574 within five hours of the loss of contact; no wreckage was found for ten days, and the main debris field was missing for about a month. Blood Red Sandman  (Talk)   (Contribs) 10:05, 5 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Scary that it can take that long to discover wreckage. In that case in ocean, in this case in dense jungle. I'm off to post a question on the Reference Desk about longest discovery times and which crashed aircraft were never discovered (eg. those early aviation pioneers). I suppose the world is not as small as modern telecommunications makes it seem. Carcharoth 14:52, 6 May 2007 (UTC)
 * I'd suggest the longest discovery times would be some recent discoveries of WWII US and British/Australian Air Force aircraft and flight crew remains in the highlands of Papua New Guinea. The US Army organisation that deals with that sort of work does a great job I think.  I think that's about 65 years waiting for discovery.  Wampusaust 04:14, 7 May 2007 (UTC)
 * After writing 1996 New Hampshire Learjet crash, I began wondering the same thing. Yes, there's plenty of early crashes that still haven't been found, but since the advent of modern radio equipment (arbitrarily, say, 1950? How about after the advent of ELTs?), what's the record?Akradecki 02:25, 10 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Northwest Airlines Flight 2501 has never been found. It vanished in 1950 on a flight from La Guardia to Minneapolis over Lake Michigan. It had been in radio contact but failed to report again after crossing the lake. This incident may have inspired Rod Serling to write The Arrival. If this happened today one could presume there were be a massive underwater search by the military. A few years ago a Kalitta cargo 747 lost an engine over Lake Michigan that has never been found either. Skywayman 23:45, 11 May 2007 (UTC)

Flight KQ 507
This article was started as Flight KQ 507, however someone saw fit to change it to Flight 507, supposedly to be consistent with other Wikipedia articles. The company itself calls it Flight KQ 507, so why do some Wikipedia contributors see fit to change this fact by omission? Ajayvius 02:06, 6 May 2007 (UTC)


 * The current title is like other similar air crashes (eg Adam Air Flight 574). It is also more likely users will search Kenya Airways Flight, rather than use the airline's two letter code. My two cents. Flyguy649talkcontribs 03:53, 6 May 2007 (UTC)


 * Indeed, the country code is not used for titles of articles about plane crashes. The correct title would be *Airline* flight 1234. --Hetfield1987 (Wesborland | James Hetfield) 02:41, 8 May 2007 (UTC)

Wikinews & Wikipedia
Why is there almost identical info in both articles? Should there even be a Wikipedia article? Perhaps once sentence in Wikipedia (at most), then redirection or link to Wikinews. rossnixon 05:11, 6 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Wikinews and wikipedia serve different purposes. Ultimately these articles should diverge significantly Nil Einne 05:59, 6 May 2007 (UTC)

This article is in need of expansion. I will go to BBC and AP to see what they have and will expand the article asap. Terence 06:36, 6 May 2007 (UTC)

DE-Wikipedia
Kenya Airways Flug 507

Countries of Origin Map
I absolutely don't see any necessity of the world map highlighting the various countries of origin. What good does that do for the article or for coverage of the plane crash in general? If you want to list the countries, as the number missing section does, that is perfectly understandable. However, the map is pointless; just because one person from the U.S. is missing, you highlight it just as you did for Cameroon where 35 people were from? I understand the need to show how diverse the passenger list was, however a better picture would be a stock photo of the plane, the wreckage, etc... Neoelitism 17:05, 6 May 2007 (UTC)

If the map is going to continue in the article can the Democratic Republic of Congo be highlighted as opposed to the Republic of the Congo (Congo-Brazzaville) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 91.125.21.122 (talk)

Reference links
Since editing for this page is restricted, here are relevant news articles

Annesville 08:23, 7 May 2007 (UTC)
 * AirDisaster.com: Accident synopsis
 * AirDisaster.com: Wreckage of crashed Kenyan 737-800 found (2007-05-07)
 * JetPhotos.net: Photograph of the plane on its delivery flight
 * iafrica.com: Seven SA citizens on crashed plane
 * iafrica.com: No hope of Kenyan crash survivors
 * AllAfrica.com: Kenya: Plane Wreckage Found

104 + 9 = 114?
If there were 104 passengers and 9 crew, then how is there 114 fatalities? Does the 9 crew exclude the pilot but include the copilot (and flight engineer if there was one)? Is there some confusion because one of the crew members is not a Kenyan? Nil Einne 16:22, 7 May 2007 (UTC)
 * All sources I've seen say 105 passengers and 9 crew. --Zamphuor 16:28, 7 May 2007 (UTC)

There was some confusion I believe because one person on board was an airline staff member of some sort who wasn't actually working, maybe a deadhead? Becaused of that, various sources recorded that person as crew and others as passenger. Ajayvius 00:06, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

Houston Chronicle?
Seems a bit strange that one of three links at the end is to the Houston Chronicle? Rross101 18:09, 7 May 2007 (UTC)

why so many Indians & why so few Kenyans?
i'm genuinely curious, why so many people from india in an 'inter-african' flight? --Leladax 22:28, 7 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Very likely they were investors or working for some company in India. There was also 5 people from PRC. Nil Einne 09:23, 8 May 2007 (UTC)

It seems unusual, along these lines of thought, that with a Kenyan national airliner en-route to the capital city of Kenya, the only Kenyans on board were the actual crew - no Kenyan passengers. Is that typical of Kenya Airways flights? Maybe Kenyans can't afford to fly. On Australian Qantas aircraft, I would expect maybe 80% of passengers to be Australian. Ajayvius 00:13, 9 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Nairobi airport is an important hub in Africa and most passengers of the ill-fated plane were probably heading for Asia or Middle East. On the other hand, passenger volume between most African countries are generally low. Anyway, it's a bit interesting that not a single passenger was from Kenya. Julius Sahara 16:16, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

There are two possible reasons for the few Kenyans on the plane. Kenya's airline is one of the bigger ones in Africa. It also has a codeshare with KLM. These two factors along with an aggressive expansion into the vaccum of West Africa explain why such a small country has its airliners as far West as Cameroon and Abdijan. There is little reason for Kenyans to be travelling in this direction, we do little trade with West Africa. On the other hand,in addition to being a major conference site Nairobi is an important hub for flights from the the Far East,the Indian sub-continent and the Middle East going on to West Africa. This is especially important for traders travelling to Dubai, Hong Kong and the Chinese mainland.

The second possible reason is that some of the Indians were actually Kenyan. Many Kenyan Indians hold more than one passport.

Crash site
Articles such as this one are stating that the crash site was Mbanga Pongo. However, I can't figure out if this is the name of a town, a village, or the mangrove swamp where the plane went down. It's probably worth mentioning in the article, but I thought I'd ask if anyone knows what this place is. Google results are little help, since removing terms related to the crash leaves only some non-English pages. — Brian ( talk ) 06:52, 8 May 2007 (UTC)

Why So Protected?
Why Is This Page Protected? Lukecarpenter169 07:32, 8 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Nil Einne 09:24, 8 May 2007 (UTC)

crash site location: 5.42 km from the end of the runway in Douala, not 20 km from the airport - please verify
According to news reports from 8 May 2007 Reuters India, the site of the crash is 5.42 km from the end of the runway in Douala, not 20 km from the airport as reported earlier and currently stated in the article in the infobox and in the text.

""From the end of the runway (to the crash site) it is 5.42 kilometres ... relatively close to Douala airport," Kenyan government spokesman Alfred Mutua said in Nairobi.""

- Reuters India

Could someone verify this as well as provide an updated coordinate spec for the infobox? --Mareklug talk 22:32, 8 May 2007 (UTC)


 * I concur. Recent sources such as are starting to say 3 miles and also 30 seconds flight time, which are consistent with the 5.42 km. Best coordinates based on this data are now, though I don't have time to update the article myself right now. --GregU 06:54, 9 May 2007 (UTC)


 * I sanity-checked your coordinates using the web coordinates-to-distance calculator:, using the coords in the external link to World Aero Data record in the Douala International Airport article which should be designating the midpoint of the runway.  The result, 6.90 kilometers SE (116°) is consistent with the length of the runway (2,853 meters) and its orientation (12/30) (true heading of 117 deg. according the same source) and the media-reported distance figure of "5.42 km from the end of runway": 6.90 - 1.4265 = 5.47 km. I double-checked by plugging in coords for runway 30 from WAD, which should be the end of runway 12, and got 5.47 kilometers SE (116°) . --Mareklug talk 08:07, 9 May 2007 (UTC)


 * Media says the plane flew 30 seconds only, so 5-6 kilometers is realistic. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 82.131.210.162 (talk) 10:08, 9 May 2007 (UTC).


 * Yep that's basically what I did -- used Google Earth to extend the runway 5.42 km out from the runway end coordinates given in WAD. The 0.05 km discrepancy is due to rounding the coordinates to three places, but didn't want to add more false precision since we don't know for sure the flight path. The original presumed flight path towards Lolodorf would be more southerly, but seems a flight path towards Kenya would be more northerly (unless it had another stop?). So staying on runway centerline seems reasonable for now. --GregU 14:36, 9 May 2007 (UTC)


 * Ah, the latest press release on the Kenya Airways site explains the discrepancy between the two distances:
 * The aircraft went down 5.42 km from the edge of the runway. The journey from Douala to the site on the ground however, is approximately 20 Km due to the fact that it is not a direct route.
 * --GregU 14:47, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

WikiProject class rating
This article was automatically assessed because at least one WikiProject had rated the article as start, and the rating on other projects was brought up to start class. BetacommandBot 03:58, 9 November 2007 (UTC)

Final Report
I've added info from FlightGlobal's article on the final report: pilot error in info box, 1 line in lead, 1 para in investigations section. I'll look for a link to the report itself. Obviously everyone should feel free to add to and/or change what I added. -- Flyguy649 talk 14:17, 28 April 2010 (UTC)


 * CCAA splash page for the crash with links to the reports and CVR transcripts. -- Flyguy649 talk 14:20, 28 April 2010 (UTC)

Archives
Archives of goodies:
 * English final report without appendices: http://www.webcitation.org/5ybChGAul
 * French final report: http://www.webcitation.org/5ybCfVumz
 * CVR transcript (English): http://www.webcitation.org/5ybCmaoyI
 * FDR info (English): http://www.webcitation.org/5ybDUsCVx
 * Vehicle Performance Study (English): http://www.webcitation.org/5ybDcZ1Ta

When I try to archive the English final report with the appendices ( http://www.ccaa.aero/images/blogs/d033e22ae348aeb5660fc2140aec35850c4da99744f683a84163b3523afe57c2e008bc8c/rapport%20kenya.pdf or http://www.caa.co.za/resource%20center/accidents%20&%20incid/reports/Foreign/Cameroon%20Accident.pdf), I get the error "Fatal error: Allowed memory size of 67108864 bytes exhausted (tried to allocate 23330816 bytes) in /home/webcita/public_html/metadata.inc.php on line 8"

WhisperToMe (talk) 10:43, 11 May 2011 (UTC)

External links modified
Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just added archive links to 1 one external link on Kenya Airways Flight 507. Please take a moment to review my edit. If necessary, add after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/20070517095611/http://www.kbc.co.ke:80/story.asp?ID=42544 to http://www.kbc.co.ke/story.asp?ID=42544

When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true to let others know.

Cheers.—cyberbot II  Talk to my owner :Online 11:49, 20 January 2016 (UTC)

External links modified
Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just added archive links to 3 one external links on Kenya Airways Flight 507. Please take a moment to review my edit. If necessary, add after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/20070509105817/http://www.alertnet.org:80/thenews/newsdesk/L07150889.htm to http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/L07150889.htm
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/20070509042530/http://www.timesnews.co.ke:80/06may07/nwsstory/news2.html to http://www.timesnews.co.ke/06may07/nwsstory/news2.html
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/20110715144418/http://www.punchng.com/Articl.aspx?theartic=Art200705061423359 to http://www.punchng.com/Articl.aspx?theartic=Art200705061423359

When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true to let others know.

Cheers.—cyberbot II  Talk to my owner :Online 00:28, 23 February 2016 (UTC)

External links modified
Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified 5 external links on Kenya Airways Flight 507. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
 * Added tag to http://investing.reuters.co.uk/news/articleinvesting.aspx?storyID=2007-05-06T195822Z_01_L06657609_RTRIDST_0_KENYA-AIR-UPDATE-5-PICTURE-GRAPHIC.XML
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20150923201110/http://www.ccaa.aero/images/blogs/d033e22ae348aeb5660fc2140aec35850c4da99744f683a84163b3523afe57c2e008bc8c/rapport%20kenya.pdf to http://www.ccaa.aero/images/blogs/d033e22ae348aeb5660fc2140aec35850c4da99744f683a84163b3523afe57c2e008bc8c/rapport%20kenya.pdf
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20150923201106/http://www.ccaa.aero/images/blogs/d033e22ae348aeb5660fc2140aec35850c4da99744f683a84163b3523afe57c2e008bc8c/Rapport%20enquete%20technique%20Kenya%20airways%20fr.doc to http://www.ccaa.aero/images/blogs/d033e22ae348aeb5660fc2140aec35850c4da99744f683a84163b3523afe57c2e008bc8c/Rapport%20enquete%20technique%20Kenya%20airways%20fr.doc
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20150923201110/http://www.ccaa.aero/images/blogs/d033e22ae348aeb5660fc2140aec35850c4da99744f683a84163b3523afe57c2e008bc8c/rapport%20kenya.pdf to http://www.ccaa.aero/images/blogs/d033e22ae348aeb5660fc2140aec35850c4da99744f683a84163b3523afe57c2e008bc8c/rapport%20kenya.pdf
 * Corrected formatting/usage for http://thestar.com.my/news/story.asp?file=%2F2007%2F5%2F12%2Fapworld%2F20070512083950
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20150923201110/http://www.ccaa.aero/images/blogs/d033e22ae348aeb5660fc2140aec35850c4da99744f683a84163b3523afe57c2e008bc8c/rapport%20kenya.pdf to http://www.ccaa.aero/images/blogs/d033e22ae348aeb5660fc2140aec35850c4da99744f683a84163b3523afe57c2e008bc8c/rapport%20kenya.pdf

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot  (Report bug) 03:26, 22 September 2017 (UTC)