Talk:Kevin Stea

Untitled
In Madonna's documentary, Oliver Crumes, Jr. says, "I'm the only dancer who is not gay." Thus, Stea is gay. May he be included in categories like "LGBTS from the United States", etc. jcm 9/8/6

Notability
Uh, does anyone else think that perhaps Stea or a friend wrote this article? In my opinion, the only thing that makes him notable is that he's one of the dancers who sued Madonna over Truth or Dare, and that's not even mentioned here. &mdash; TAnthonyTalk 02:30, 27 September 2008 (UTC)

Afd (Articles for deletion)
This article is at Afd and since there seem to be some brand new editors interested in the Afd I'm posting a couple links/explanations here. I'm sorry to just link to all these explanations. You can participate without reading them, but you might find them helpful. I'm not an expert on Afds (I've only commented in 3 or 4) but if anybody is confused by the process I'd be glad to answer a question if I know the answer. (Or somebody else might answer, and I hope they'll correct me if I've said something wrong here.)

Cloveapple (talk) 11:44, 7 June 2011 (UTC)
 * WP:AFD explains how Afd works. It's important to understand that it's not a vote. It's a chance to comment or to say what you think should happen to an article. You are allowed to change your public opinion during the discussion. A plain opinion doesn't carry much weight if you can't back it up with evidence or point out how a policy or guideline supports what you've said.
 * There's a section explaining Afd ettiquette at WP:AFDEQ
 * There's a section explaining how to participate in the discussion at WP:AFDFORMAT
 * By saying that Stea had only had minor parts I believe the person who nominated the article was saying he didn't qualify as "notable" (which is different from saying whether or not he is talented).
 * How to decide if a subject is notable is at WP:NOTE with a more specific page on people at WP:PEOPLE
 * Reliable sources discussed at WP:RS are important in showing that someone is notable

New headings
If you want to make a new heading in the discussion here, just put two equal signs before the topic title and two equal signs after it. Cloveapple (talk) 11:44, 7 June 2011 (UTC)

Looking for Italian sources
Since some of his work is in Italy I've started Googling for sites in Italian that mention him. (If you go to the | advanced Google search you can set the language to Italian. Or you can use the | language tools to search.)

So far all I've got is |this picture of what I think is an Italian magazine article posted on his Facebook from a magazine called Casagrande. If you check the actual facebook page you should be able to download it. I'm not on facebook so I can't try that. (Yeah I know, I try to Google Italian sites and I get the guy's facebook page!! Sad.) Cloveapple (talk) 19:07, 7 June 2011 (UTC)

Italian Sources
If you use Google.it, it is better to use a modifier with the name to get better results: Kevin Stea ballerino (Kevin Stea dancer), Kevin Stea articoli (Kevin Stea articles) or Kevin Stea di moda (Kevin Stea fashion) which will yield much better results. I am very grateful for your offer to brainstorm searching for acceptable sources to fill out the article. I have heard of Kevin Stea because I was the editor of the English language newspaper in Rome and at the time he was a fashion icon for Italian fashion designers, and was a hot Italian pop culture icon as part of the trio with Luca Tommassini and Lorella Cuccarini. Appearing every Sunday in a "sigla" (introductory olio) of the show Buona Domenica. (You couldn't pick up a teen magazine without some picture and gushy story). On TV (Rai2) he sang, danced, and performed comedy skits. I wonder if videos from that time are acceptable references? They can be found on several italian sites too. Also since this was 1994-1995 a lot occurred before the web got underway so it is hard to find things. For example, you can see he is the cover model for Cosmopolitan (european edition) and has features in many fashion magazines (Harper's Bazaar) etc., but these magazines are either out of print or do not have online archives. Would libraries have them? I look forward to brainstorming with you when I get home tonight so I can get a better handle on direction and technique. Thank you. 64.206.227.62 (talk) 23:11, 7 June 2011 (UTC)Greg McCombs
 * WP:RELY is about sources. I'm not an expert but here's a rough sketch of sources. When possible they should be from places that have editors or some kind of fact checking (for example the New York Times paper, an official New York Times blog, or a published book from a reputable press). So self published stuff like most blogs or somebody's promotional website are usually a no. Same for user generated content like IMDB and facebook.


 * Next thing is that you don't want the works of art themselves or the events themselves (the model shots, plays, videos, scandals, law suits, television shows). Instead you want reliable secondary sources discussing all those things. So a news report is good. A review is good. (The review would have to discuss him though and not just the work he was in.) A biographical sketch is good. A discussion of him as a model is good. There might be articles in some sort of industry magazines that might be good. An article talking about the gushing teens could be good.


 * As for libraries, I'd be up for hitting my city libary Wednesday or Thursday to see what pre-internet American magazine and newspaper indexes have to show us. Cloveapple (talk) 05:33, 8 June 2011 (UTC)

Italian sources (2)
BTW, The magazine is not called Casagrande, that is the name of the photographer. The magazine was called Beautiful (or Beautiful Magazine). Other magazines I remember are Chi and S4m (Sport for Men). I also can get you links to Tiramo News with an article from this year and an Italian site with an interview with Lorella Cuccarini looking back on her 25 year career and naming Kevin Stea (who worked with her only one year) as the most memorable "soulmate of a choreograpaher" in all of that time, though she did mention that she worked with another choreaographer for the past 16 years. (I worry about putting long posts on this talk page. Is there a better way to discuss things, offline perhaps?  69.181.192.117 (talk) 01:46, 8 June 2011 (UTC)Greg McCombs
 * Tiramo News could be good if it's a reputable news source (in other words not a tabloid) and isn't just a passing mention. Cloveapple (talk) 16:46, 8 June 2011 (UTC)

International Sources
I want to figure out how to independently source the international impact of Mr. Stea's work. I know he has a devoted following in India, as part of the tour with India's megastar/singer A.R. Rahman. There are several articles in The Times of India, and I have a link to a video that A.R. Rahman made (which features Stea) as a Thank You to London for their tour there. The tour went thoughout southeast Asia and Canada, and I suppose the United States. There seems to be a fan base in Jakharta, Indonesia but navigating the indonesian sites is beyond me, even with google translator. There is a fan base in Australia, from work done there. I believe hx magazine would be the source for that. There is also a huge fan base in Japan for several reasons. One is the 1990 Blond Ambition Tour in Japan with Madonna. The other is the more recent tour with Japan's pop superstar Seiko Matsuda. The Mitsubishi (English site) on YouTube has every single Blond Ambition performance available on YouTube. I can even link to the Seiko Matsuda video with Mr. Stea. But there is a lot more in Japan, because Seiko Matsuda and Mr. Stea became involved in a national scandal... they did a Japanese commercial where they french kissed, she was topless, married with a kid. It aired every 2 minutes. Then the papers newspapers 'outed' Mr. Stea for being gay. He was her partner on the tour and also sang on that tour. But negotiating Japanese search engines to document this is way beyond me. I can't begin to figure out the alphabet even with translator. I wish there were a bi-lingual wikipedia editor who could help. Let me know if you have any brainstorms on what diirections to take... I will be compiling a list of links in these areas to get your opinion of what is considered the strongest independent source. Gmccombs (talk) 02:06, 8 June 2011 (UTC)Greg McCombs
 * We the editors can't say what we think the impact was. What you'd need is to find a reliable source discussing the impact. A bilingual editor may add things later but we can't count on that right now. So maybe the Indian articles should be prioritized since they're in English. Remember you don't need links for all your sources. Paper sources are okay too. I wonder if there was an English paper in Japan at the time that covered the scandal there. If you know of a specific newspaper and a rough date (what year) that probably has something, I can call to see if either the big city public library or a university library has indexes to that particular paper or microfilm of the right editions. Cloveapple (talk) 08:08, 8 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Forgot to say: even if I can't get microfilm copies quickly, if the guide to periodical literature (think that's the magazine index's name) or any other reliable index, lists some articles as being about him (vs. just mentioning him) that might be worth mentioning at the Afd if they look really convincing. Cloveapple (talk) 08:26, 8 June 2011 (UTC)

Reply
Wow, USER: Cloveapple, thank you for the guidance, that certainly narrows my searches in Italian. The Tiramo article is recent and seems to be from an online site for a regional news organization. It is from 2007 and, in a way, testifies to Mr. Stea's popularity in Italy that he makes news there even now, and on Google.it the fact that they refer to US sites whenever there is any news is surprising too. Great idea about Japanese English newspapers. I should have thought of that. And do you think there is an index to the NY Times? That would be great and a way to get around paying archive fees. I am sorry the videos from Italian TV aren't admissable, because they are so darn fun to watch, really. I also have found article that interviews one of the Italian stars who worked him, praising his impact on their career, so I think those would be good too, right? Other than that, there are numerous fan pages of Italian TV stars with photos and videos of their work with him. I think I'll work harder on trying to get magazines. I have a list of Italian magazines to work from but many are not on line or may be out of print. Things like the Italian Version of "TV Guide" (Ecco TV) are there, and even mention the name on the google.it listing, but when you go there nothing from those years seems to be there. It is frustrating and time wasting some of the google.it listings. I look forward to what you may find. I also investigated the lawsuit and found newspaper articles and other links which better describes and documents that time. I posted it to the article's entry on the Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Kevin Stea page. Maybe I should have place it here first. Hmmm. Gmccombs (talk) 05:36, 9 June 2011 (UTC)Gmccombs
 * I'm sure New York Times articles are indexed somewhere and your public library might have the index. I struck out at my public library because they did not have an index that covered Japanese newspapers from the right time period. My university library might be able to help me, although this search will be too pop culture for many of their academic flavored indexes. Was the scandal in Japan that involved Kevin Stea during 1994? And do you know the month? If you know the exact date or close to it, it might be worth it for me to see if I can go through an English language Japanese paper issue by issue this Friday looking for coverage. (That's assuming that the U library has microfilm of at least one English language Japanese paper.)
 * I think you had said earlier that you had another Indian article? That would be good, as would any of the Italian articles. There might be cases where certain kinds of video would be an acceptable source, but for the notability we are trying to find him I'd say to focus on sources that will definitely be more than acceptable, and then after the Afd is over you can spend time finding out what sorts of video sources might be acceptable. (Music videos or movie clips would not be accptable in the same way a painting wouldn't count as a secondary source about a painter.) Cloveapple (talk) 06:14, 9 June 2011 (UTC)
 * The Japan time period would be 1993, I think, from May to September. (The commercial that caused the controvery was aired then. The commercial was for Takano Yuri Salon.  The singing tour Seiko Matsuda and Kevin Stea were on then was called Glorious Revolution Tour (at leaast that is the English name for it.) Gmccombs (talk) 18:23, 11 June 2011 (UTC)Gmccombs

Book
There is an entire "Coffee Table" book about Kevin Stea and his work that costs $120 and there are only six copies available at http://www.amazon.com/KEVIN-STEA/dp/6131772045  Can you see this in the library? It is used, out of print, it's paperback, has high quality photos, and ships from the United Kingdom. The book is edited by Fredrick P. Miller, Agnes F. Vendome, John McBrewster (Ed.) How can we find the source for this. Since it is probably a foreign publication (UK) it won't have an ISBN listing. This is definitely one for you to ponder. Thanks But it covers his career from USC dance classes to Madonna up to his work with Janet Jackson, so probably only the first 10 years. Gmccombs (talk) 06:19, 9 June 2011 (UTC) Gmccombs

Nevermind
It seems to be a scam, it is a company that republishes what it finds on wikipedia. My the world is a funny place. I googled the publisher and found the scam articles. Gmccombs (talk) 06:19, 9 June 2011 (UTC)Gmccombs
 * I found out the publisher (Alphascript) gets their material | from Wikipedia at the same time you did. By the way, no need to make a new heading each time. Just use one or more colons before your text to indent your reply. (A new heading looks like a new topic annd generates a new listing at the contents on top of the page) Cloveapple (talk) 06:25, 9 June 2011 (UTC)

Gay Issue

 * Someone at my office told me that an important part of the 1992 lawsuit with Madonna was that the invasion of privacy steed from the fact that Gabriel Trupin was "outed as being gay." It was sone of the first cases of an outing for being gay going to the courts.  (Trupin later died of AIDS) A comment at the top of this page raises the gay subject.  But I can find nothing on that, since it was probably a taboo subject back then. However, there is a lot of coverage in gay journals on line about BirdCage, Showgirls, and Naked Boys Singing in which r. Stea either starred in or acted and danced in.  Would these be a way of addressing the comment above?  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Gmccombs (talk • contribs) 18:32, 11 June 2011 (UTC)